Castle Aching

[corneliuslundie]

I wouldn't be so sure about Castle Aching not having a gas works by the end of the 19th century. I am sure Fakenham had one pretty early - and isn't there a gas museum there, or am I cracking up?

Jonathan

[TheQ]

Fakenham is a small town and even in 1900  had a population of 7500 about the same as today, Castle Rising had a population of about 320 in the early 1900s, Castle Acre had a population of about 1200 about that time.

 

 yes there is a gas works museum in Fakenham.

[Nearholmer]

You are right chaps, gas at the sort of back-of-beyond place that I was thinking of, in 1905 is very unlikely indeed. The station should have had an oil lamp.

 

Gas for coach lighting, much less unlikely, in fact ordinary, and it wouldn't necessarily rely on Town's Gas. Many railways favoured Pintsch's Gas, which is derived from shale oil, and was said to burn cleaner, and with a whiter light, although those might have been sales pitches. In the earlier ramble-off into Scottish wagons, I touched on this a bit, because Stratford had a large Pintsch's Gas works, which I think took gas oil from Scotland, and sent pressurised gas tanks to GER stations; I know not which gas the GWR favoured (something produced by Devon cows?).

 

So, maybe the WNR has a tiny little Pintsch's plant at CA, or maybe it buys gas from the GER; only Edwardian knows for certain.

 

Kevin

 

Good outline of a Pintsch's works here http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/sdgas.Html the use of the term 'naphtha' for gas oil is a bit confusing, because in different places 'naphtha' can mean a host of different things, from crude oil to very particular fractions, and in Britain it usually means a light fraction.

 

And, a plan for a small works.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

 

 

Edwardian,  Are you going to reference the Warennes and D'Albanis somewhere on the layout?

 

Well, there has, or at least had to be, an equivalent of the Warennes holding the castle. 

 

Not sure where the Duke of Norfolk' antecedents would fit in.  As I have said, the catholic laity brings with it the real risk of a visit by Father Brown and narrative determinism will mean that a murder is bound to ensue.  Something like the Paston-Beddingfeld's moated gaff would be fun, though.

 

I do need a family for Aching Hall, which, for some reason, I see as a Palladian House (Houghton? Nothing so large as Holkham), which makes it more likely Whiggish than anything else.  Generally Tories built Baroque, while Whigs built Palladian (except for the 2 grandest houses in Derbyshire, where it was the other way round).  

 

Possibly the reason for picturing Aching Hall as Palladian is the introduction into the narrative at an early stage of pyramids.  For which Nearholmer is entirely to blame.  They seem to fit well in the landscaped park of a Palladian pile. My son believes that anything to do with pyramids is a sign of the Illuminati, so when the first consignment arrives from the MPC's Paltry Circus Works, I'll have some explaining to do.

[Edwardian]

I wouldn't be so sure about Castle Aching not having a gas works by the end of the 19th century. I am sure Fakenham had one pretty early - and isn't there a gas museum there, or am I cracking up?

Jonathan

 

Ah, yes, Jonathan, Achingham will have a gas works (probably a model based on Fakenham), but CA is a little too small and does not.  Indeed, very much as the Q says, Achingham is the Fakenham equivalent and CA the Castle Acre.

 

To my great regret I failed to visit the gas museum when I lived only an hour or so away.

 

 

You are right chaps, gas at the sort of back-of-beyond place that I was thinking of, in 1905 is very unlikely indeed. The station should have had an oil lamp.

 

Gas for coach lighting, much less unlikely, in fact ordinary, and it wouldn't necessarily rely on Town's Gas. Many railways favoured Pintsch's Gas, which is derived from shale oil, and was said to burn cleaner, and with a whiter light, although those might have been sales pitches. In the earlier ramble-off into Scottish wagons, I touched on this a bit, because Stratford had a large Pintsch's Gas works, which I think took gas oil from Scotland, and sent pressurised gas tanks to GER stations; I know not which gas the GWR favoured (something produced by Devon cows?).

 

So, maybe the WNR has a tiny little Pintsch's plant at CA, or maybe it buys gas from the GER; only Edwardian knows for certain.

 

Kevin

 

Hmm, think I have a plan for a GE gas wagon somewhere .....

[TheQ]

The castles were built by,

Castle Rising was built by William d'Aubigny II,

Castle Acre was built by William de Warenne.

 

I was reading a history of Norfolk over the last couple of days.....

[Nearholmer]

"My son believes that anything to do with pyramids is a sign of the Illuminati, so when the first consignment arrives from the MPC's Paltry Circus Works, I'll have some explaining to do"

 

Oh dear! It sounds as if he might be prey to similar delusions to those which occupy Mr 0'Doolight.

[Edwardian]

 

 

So, maybe the WNR has a tiny little Pintsch's plant at CA,

 

Good outline of a Pintsch's works here http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/sdgas.Html the use of the term 'naphtha' for gas oil is a bit confusing, because in different places 'naphtha' can mean a host of different things, from crude oil to very particular fractions, and in Britain it usually means a light fraction.

 

Ooh, Pintsch gas works!

 

Great link, Kevin, thank you.

 

Some info also here: http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/House-Construction/Chapter-II-Oil-Gas.html

 

And a plan

[Nearholmer]

Snap!

 

And, you can buy r-t-r wagons to transport it, so it seems http://kbaystsb.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/minitrix-15135-gas-tank-cars-set.html

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Snap!

 

And, you can buy r-t-r wagons to transport it, so it seems http://kbaystsb.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/minitrix-15135-gas-tank-cars-set.html

 

I was happily imagining them in WNR livery at the point I realised they were N Gauge!

 

But they would form the inspiration for an interesting scratch-build/chassis kit-bash.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Edwardian

[Donw]

I think to justify the station we must assume that Castle Aching has a reasonable population. Indeed the presence of the station itself would have tended to attract greater population. The building of a Gas Works at Castle Aching would have resulted in additional traffic for the WNR and therefore would have been heartily supported by the directors.  whether the Town Council would have wanted to provided gas street lighting is another matter. I believe that unless the pipes for street lighting had been installed the WNR wouldn't have wanted to pay for the pipes all the way from the GAs Works. 

Dogelley had a population of about 2300 (1911 but much the same earlier) and had its own Gas works from mid 1800s. I cannot be sure about street lighting but the Council did set up a committee to manage lighting and watching of the town in 1855 some years before the railway arrived.

 

Don

[uax6]

I wouldn't rule out elastic-trickery for coach lighting just yet... The Highland fitted two coaches with Messers Stone's system, at a cost around £50 a coach, in 1896. In 1899 a carriage was fitted with Pintsch's gas lighting, and was compared to an electric lit coach on the 4th of April '99. As the Stone's system gave trouble they decided in Nov '00 to move across to gas, and Pintsch's set up a gas plant at Inverness in 1902. Two gas tank wagons were purchased for £175 for use at Perth and Wick.

1914 seems to be the date when elastic-trickery was then starting to be used for new stock....

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

Re shale oil for Pintsch gas, of interest?

 

http://www.vr-enthusiast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=624

Edited December 5, 2016 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Or home grown Scottish shale oil tanks:

 

They are both wooden framed and I note the Oakbank tank is given as built in 1894.

[Nearholmer]

Those wagons alone make it worth creating an oil gas plant.

 

To add to the lighting saga: LBSCR were dead keen on electricity and fitted out a few rakes with systems having dynamos inside the brake compartments, driven by a belt from an axle, in the late 1870s or early 1880s (I need to rediscover the article in The Engineer); the Pullman Pups were dynamo and battery wagons, of course. The real issue was in regulating the charging voltage, and getting polarity right with dynamo being driven from an axle that could be revolving either way, and it was LNWR who really sorted this out, at Wolverton. I have a vague idea that Stone either licensed or slightly improved and patented the wolverton system.

 

K

[webbcompound]

Haydon Bridge, (Northumberland) currently has a population of 2000 or so. Around 1900 it was about 1200 or less. There was a tiny town gas works just by the station (obviously coal came in on the railway). The site of the gas works is next to the coal yard, and is barely wide enough to park two lorries next to each other, so long and thin in typical model railway fashion. It is marked on the 1895 OS map. Here is the best I can find. If you peer and squint at the point where the railway running SE to NW crosses the dashed vertical line you can just make out "Gas Works" and see its elongated shape

 

 

Just found a much better image, the 25 inch to the mile map

 

 

https://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005035FS.htm

Edited December 5, 2016 by webbcompound

[Poggy1165]

Well, there has, or at least had to be, an equivalent of the Warennes holding the castle. 

 

Not sure where the Duke of Norfolk' antecedents would fit in.  As I have said, the catholic laity brings with it the real risk of a visit by Father Brown and narrative determinism will mean that a murder is bound to ensue.  Something like the Paston-Beddingfeld's moated gaff would be fun, though.

 

I do need a family for Aching Hall, which, for some reason, I see as a Palladian House (Houghton? Nothing so large as Holkham), which makes it more likely Whiggish than anything else.  Generally Tories built Baroque, while Whigs built Palladian (except for the 2 grandest houses in Derbyshire, where it was the other way round).  

 

Possibly the reason for picturing Aching Hall as Palladian is the introduction into the narrative at an early stage of pyramids.  For which Nearholmer is entirely to blame.  They seem to fit well in the landscaped park of a Palladian pile. My son believes that anything to do with pyramids is a sign of the Illuminati, so when the first consignment arrives from the MPC's Paltry Circus Works, I'll have some explaining to do.

 

The Mowbray dukes of Norfolk were descended from the Warennes. The heir's title in the 15th Century was alternatively Earl of Surrey or Earl of Warenne (or both). They were succeeded (to cut a long story short) by their cousins, the very prolific Howards. Who among other credits, constructed the Glossop branch near Manchester. A Howard lion stands at the station to this day, despite all the vandalism time has visited on that place.

 

As an aside, the sister-in-law of the last Mowbray duke was that famous beauty Lady Eleanor Talbot who may (or may not) have secretly married King Edward IV circa 1461.

[Caley Jim]

.........If gas, there being no mains, would I have to run a Corden-type tanker from the Achingham Gas Works siding to CA?

As far as I am aware gas tanks were used to transport Pintsch Gas from gasworks to 'gassing stations' for replenishing coach gas tanks.  I have never heard of them being used to supply gas for station lighting.

 

Just found a much better image, the 25 inch to the mile map

Another good source of map images is http://maps.nls.uk/.

 

Jim

 

(edited for typo)

Edited December 5, 2016 by Caley Jim

[Nearholmer]

Ever keen to inflict 'utilities' on CA, I've pestered for a waterworks, a gas works is clearly favoured, so now all that is needed is an electricty supply......... Surely there must be some far-sighted enterprise in the town that has need of the electric fluid. Does the WNR itself perhaps need to charge accumulators for use in connection with block-telegraphy?

 

K

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[corneliuslundie]

Apologies for starting another hare! My original thought on gas works was prompted by the fact that Newtown, where I now live, had a gasworks from soon after the canal arrived, and then had a population of less than 4000 if I remember (it was smaller than Llanidloes which has dropped markedly since then from 4500 to 1500).

And of course if Castle Aching was being built by Peter Denny it should have a gasworks at every station. In fact if you do decide that Castle Aching or one of your other stations should play host to a gasworks there are worse places to look for information than Peter's writing.

I think an electricity generating station might be going a bit far, unless you also intend creating the North Norfolk and Castle Aching Tramways & Improvements Company, which would of course have had its own generation plant. But that really would be going a bit far. A horse tramway to serve the tourists perhaps (like that at Pwllheli), but not this newfangled electrickery.

I am not sure about the extent of Catholicism in north Norfolk, but there is plenty of very High Anglicanism because of the presence of Our Lady of Walsingham. I assume that that was the case a century or so ago.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

There must be a dynamo somewhere, if there is telegraphy.......

 

Well, unless they are using long-outmoded primary cells.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

There must be a dynamo somewhere, if there is telegraphy.......

 

Well, unless they are using long-outmoded primary cells.

 

What were Cell Trucks for?  (er delivering/exchanging cells although I think most telegraph related activities used dry cells)

[Edwardian]

So, town gas is probably for Achingham (think 'Fakenham').

 

Pintsch gas for carriages would involve:

 

• A small railway owned oil gas plant.  Also at Achingham?  Or, adjacent to the rear (coal) siding at CA?

 

• Incoming coke (fuel)

 

• Incoming Scottish shale oil in cylindrical tank wagon (and/or barrels in a NB open?)

 

• Outgoing railway-owned triple cylinder compressed Pintsch gas wagon, to other railway stations.  Like Cordens, would this wagon be passenger rated so that it can be close coupled?

 

• Some infrastructure (what?) for filling coach gas reservoir 

 

Can't say I've seen the Pintsch gas infrastructure modelled.   

[Shadow]

The great eastern society has a picture of a travelling gas reservoir.

 

 

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock/wagons/1890-1902

[Caley Jim]

.......

I think an electricity generating station might be going a bit far, unless you also intend creating the North Norfolk and Castle Aching Tramways & Improvements Company, which would of course have had its own generation plant. .....

Such an enterprise would surely pose serious competition to the WNR passenger services!  

 

Jim