Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

Stationmaster

 

I think cell trucks transported cells to and from wherever the dynamo that charged them lived, usually "main works", although I have a feeling that small numbers of cells travelled in brake vans for the same purpose. My thinking is that CA is main works for the WNR.

 

I'm fairly sure that primary cells were still "wet" in 1905, and pretty horrible things, and that S&T used secondary cells until dry primary cells became available, but you've got me thinking, and I need to delve further into my ancient textbooks ....... I've got one one the electrical side of signalling from c1900 ....... somewhere!

 

Kevin

 

Quick check indicates that the first widely available dry cells date from 1898, in the US, so the WNR is probably still using secondary cells in 1905. The British arm of Ever Ready brought the technology to these isles "big time", and they opened their factory in 1906 (or 1901 - sources seem to disagree!)

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Such an enterprise would surely pose serious competition to the WNR passenger services!  

 

Jim

 

Yes, we should do nothing that might tempt the WNR's passengers off their lines.

 

(and this much choice could confuse both of them)

[Edwardian]

The great eastern society has a picture of a travelling gas reservoir.

 

 

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock/wagons/1890-1902

 

Thanks.  I'd love to find a photograph.

 

I have detailed plans for a later one.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Edwardian

[uax6]

Cell trucks were used (at least latterly) for transporting new cells from the works to the depots for changing out duff cells that had been in service.

 

There were secondary cells of course, but Leclanche cells were extensively used in telecoms circuits up until recent times, along with dry cells. In fact dry cells are still used in some places now....

 

Andy G

[Northroader]

The cells were "accumulators", rectangular glass articles, which needed to go somewhere with lectricity to get charged up, onthe railway widespread usage on the s&t side. On a domestic basis my aunt and uncle had a cats whisker radio needing juice, as they lived in a house with oil lamps for lighting and coal fire for heat and cooking. The accumulator had a mile trip to a picture house (cinema) which charged loads for the whole district. On the way it passed a GWR halt, with oil lamps on the crossing gates and the platform. The place had an aroma of oil from the lamps and creosote from the sleepers and halt buildings. So rather than a lot of building work, just tip a can of creosote and another of lamp oil over CA and breathe in...

[K14]

So, town gas is probably for Achingham (think 'Fakenham').

 

Pintsch gas for carriages would involve:

 

• Some infrastructure (what?) for filling coach gas reservoir 

 

Can't say I've seen the Pintsch gas infrastructure modelled.   

 

I doubt it was anything fancy, probably just a long length of armoured hose (akin to old-style air compressor hose) with a threaded brass fitting on the end.

 

This is one of the gas fillers on T.49 No. 416 at Didcot:—

 

 

The threaded connector is pointing down at an angle, & there's a key/spanner operated square shank isolating tap on the right.

 

You can get away without modelling the regulator, shut-off valve & actuating bar on the ends. Whilst that's a common place to find them, some photos of GW stock show them mounted transversely between the solebar & the bottom of the body:—

 

 

Pete.

[Nearholmer]

Uax6

 

So, me calling wet primary cells 'outmoded' in 1905 was a bit premature.

 

Fascinating!

 

K

[ChrisN]

It is a good question about would the station has used imported gas.  Did other stations do that or did they link into the local supply.  The Cambrian only brought in gas lighting for coaches in about 1894/95 and at the start only for their through coaches, which also had toilets, everyone else, as my friend once said the me, had to cross their legs and pray for a station.  The Cambrian of course was quite poor up until the 1890s and so had no extra money for these luxuries.

 

I like the look of the coaches.  I am still in more than two minds about whether I wish to cut up old clerestories to make GWR through coaches or buy a couple and let everyone else cut them up so my offspring can sell them at a highly inflated price as they will be the only two left.

 

Edit:  Sorry this is about 2 pages out of sync

Edited December 5, 2016 by ChrisN

[corneliuslundie]

I think the question of whether the station would be lit by gas if there was a gasworks in the town would depend on the deal offered to the railway by the gas company (and perhaps the distance of the station from the distribution network). Railway companies never shelled out money when they didn't have to, especially those that didn't have any. But the gas company might decide that the railway was a nice steady, reliable customer and offer a really good deal - then of course others would hopefully want gas lighting because they saw it at the station. However, plenty of minor stations were lit by oil until well into the 20th century, some to the end. One halt in North Wales was closed a few years because NR refused to provide lighting. I suspect it once had oil lighting but handling oil lamps was not on the agenda for "train managers". There are plenty of examples in WTTs of instructions to guards to set out and take in oil lamps at minor stations.

On competition between gas and electricity, my second boss, back in 1973, was Secretary of the Illuminating Engineering Society. He had worked before the Second World War for the Gas Light & Coke Co. He was certain that electricity was no better technically than gas for street lighting but that the electricity industry systematically took the market by undercutting gas in price (at a loss) until it had the market and could put the price of electricity back up. I have not heard this elsewhere, but it just might be true.

If you do decide to install gas street lighting at Castle Aching, remember that gas lighting was much yellower than electricity.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

One of Mr Jablochkoff's electric candles would, if suspended at a sufficient height, as in the "moonlight towers" used in America, serve to illuminate the entire borough......

 

(I'm just trying to sneak a dynamo in again!)

Edited December 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

One of Mr Jablochkoff's electric candles would, if suspended at a sufficient height, as in the "moonlight towers" used in America, serve to illuminate the entire borough......

 

(I'm just trying to sneak a dynamo in again!)

 

The Victorians really didn't think through the issue of light pollution, did they?

 

Or any kind of pollution, really.

[Shadow]

Thanks. I'd love to find a photograph.

 

I have detailed plans for a later one.

There's a photo here from the NRM archive, 1911 approx it says!

 

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/picture/print/10016909.html

 

And here

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/p/560/passenger-station-is-in-background-fosters-mill-is-8860465.jpg

 

And a few old carriages here just for ogling at!

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/ely-station-view-northwards-into-the-station-end-of/print/8860201.html

 

Edit to add correct last link!

Edited December 5, 2016 by Shadow

[Edwardian]

There's a photo here from the NRM archive, 1911 approx it says!

 

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/picture/print/10016909.html

 

And here

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/p/560/passenger-station-is-in-background-fosters-mill-is-8860465.jpg

 

And a few old carriages here just for ogling at!

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/p/560/passenger-station-is-in-background-fosters-mill-is-8860465.jpg

 

Great pictures, in a variety of ways, thank you!

 

Much to study here.

I doubt it was anything fancy, probably just a long length of armoured hose (akin to old-style air compressor hose) with a threaded brass fitting on the end.

 

This is one of the gas fillers on T.49 No. 416 at Didcot:—

 

416_Gas-01.JPG

 

The threaded connector is pointing down at an angle, & there's a key/spanner operated square shank isolating tap on the right.

 

You can get away without modelling the regulator, shut-off valve & actuating bar on the ends. Whilst that's a common place to find them, some photos of GW stock show them mounted transversely between the solebar & the bottom of the body:—

 

Dean Gas.jpg

 

Pete.

 

That is particularly helpful, thanks

[Shadow]

Just entered Great Eastern into the search on the NRM media store and found this from 1884.

Liverpool Street station passengers, quite a motley bunch!

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/liverpool-street-station-great-eastern-railway-25-october/print/10013545.html

Edited December 5, 2016 by Shadow

[Shadow]

And look at that point work in the foreground of this one at Braintree.

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/braintree-station-about-1911-looking-west-main-station/print/8861197.html

[uax6]

Uax6

 

So, me calling wet primary cells 'outmoded' in 1905 was a bit premature.

 

Fascinating!

 

K

The GPO was still providing them in the 20's, and some friends recovered a couple still in use in the late 1980's. In fact I'm sure there is a museum somewhere that have some working (Porthcurno?).

I used to have a set of glass cased 220Ahr lead/acids, until they started to de-laminate, nice to look at, but no use as fish tanks (your gold-fish turn into white fish as the glass is treated to remove all UV to protect the plates...)

 

Another friend has a couple of nice tall Siemens dry cells, from the 30's, still with volts on them!

 

Andy G

[ChrisN]

Just entered Great Eastern into the search on the NRM media store and found this from 1884.

Liverpool Street station passengers, quite a motley bunch!

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/liverpool-street-station-great-eastern-railway-25-october/print/10013545.html

 

Not a lot different from the last time I went through Liverpool St. a week ago!

[wagonman]

And look at that point work in the foreground of this one at Braintree.

 

http://nrm.mediastorehouse.com/braintree-station-about-1911-looking-west-main-station/print/8861197.html

 

 

That is presumably to avoid having a facing point on the main line and all its associated gubbins. Such arrangements were not uncommon.

[Nearholmer]

You chaps are going to divert me into building a pre-grouping finescale layout if you go on like this ........ it's all so blooming interesting!

 

UAx6 - in an earlier life, I was engineer/project manager for a set of switchgear replacements on Merseyrail, which gave me the opportunity to explore a lot of old gibbons leftover from the c1900 electrification of the Mersey tunnel railway. There had been a huge lead-acid traction battery, designed to get trains out of the tunnel if the generating station failed completely, the cells being made of slate slabs, sealed together with pitch. Each cell was big enough to stand in. The Ah capacity is recorded in an article in the Engineer somewhere ......, it was big! IIRC, there was a similar bank of cells at the western end of the Central London Railway, for slightly different reasons.

 

K

Edited December 6, 2016 by Nearholmer

[corneliuslundie]

"You chaps are going to divert me into building a pre-grouping finescale layout if you go on like this ........ it's all so blooming interesting! "

It's working then!

Cornelius Lundie

[Nearholmer]

And here are some old Liverpudlian gibbons, courtesy of autocorrect.

[TheQ]

I'm not saying where, ( but it's not government or military but is secure) but I know there are people still doing acid / voltage checks, on huge cell stacks, every shift, as I did back in 2001.

I still do these checks every time I go to my motor boat it has 24, 2 Volt, traction batteries for it's electric drive motor.

Edited December 6, 2016 by TheQ

[BG John]

"You chaps are going to divert me into building a pre-grouping finescale layout if you go on like this ........ it's all so blooming interesting! "

It's working then!

Cornelius Lundie

Only one? There's so much interesting stuff out there, that I've got ideas for loads of them!

[Edwardian]

You chaps are going to divert me into building a pre-grouping finescale layout if you go on like this ........ it's all so blooming interesting!

 

 

 

...

[Nick Holliday]

So, town gas is probably for Achingham (think 'Fakenham').

 

Pintsch gas for carriages would involve:

• A small railway owned oil gas plant.  Also at Achingham?  Or, adjacent to the rear (coal) siding at CA?

• Incoming coke (fuel)

• Incoming Scottish shale oil in cylindrical tank wagon (and/or barrels in a NB open?)

• Outgoing railway-owned triple cylinder compressed Pintsch gas wagon, to other railway stations.  Like Cordens, would this wagon be passenger rated so that it can be close coupled?

• Some infrastructure (what?) for filling coach gas reservoir 

 

Can't say I've seen the Pintsch gas infrastructure modelled.   

 

Judging by the LBSC, which, despite its keen use of electric lighting on some fixed sets, still had a large fleet of gas lit coaches, it would be unlikely that each branch would have a gas generating plant.  The Brighton had just 3 Pintsch plants, Brighton, Battersea and New Cross, and had a small fleet of just 15 tank wagons to distribute the compressed gas across the whole system.  Other lines were similar, with the GWR having a large gas generating plant at Swindon.

There would be incoming fuel to run the equipment, but the requirements were fairly small, as it only involved heating the naphtha to release the gases.

Although shale oil was a source of naphtha, I don't think it was a primary one, although it's a nice ploy to justify a Scottish wagon in East Anglia.  Naphtha was also a by-product of the coal-gas industry, and the vast quantities that would be available from the large coke and gas plants scattered around the Midlands and London would have been able to meet the local requirements. Since the Scottish shale industry virtually died out by 1914, there would have been a lot of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth if there had not been any alternative supply to keep gas-light coaches running for another forty years or so.

The travelling gas tanks came in many guises, and I would suspect that the twin-barrel version, as modelled by SEFinecast (M&GN-ish) and David Geen (GWR), was more common than the multi-barrel type like the familiar GWR Cordon (other lines are available) or the single or triple type.  In my opinion the single barrelled type, as per the suggested GER wagon, looks horribly modern and barbaric for such a genteel location and time.  I can't speak for other lines, but the Brighton specifically noted that they must not be conveyed by passenger trains without the special authority of the Superintendent of the Line.

The infrastructure for filling the tanks on carriages was usually fairly simplistic.  Often there seems to have been just a length of hose with connections to fit onto the fittings on the travelling reservoir and the carriage tanks.  Presumably the travelling tank would be placed in one position and the hose moved to reach each coach, as you can often see the hose looped back upon itself between tracks. At some locations, where the gas was generated, there might be more permanent arrangements.  At Swindon, the generating plant was some distance from the station, and iron pipework carried the gas to a series of stand pipes by the tracks where the filling would take place.

As for using the Pintsch gas for station lighting, I would have thought it unlikely, although not impossible. I suspect that the Pintsch gas would have been more expensive to produce than the cost of town or coal gas, and it was only used because of the special nature of carriage lighting, where its ability to maintain good lighting levels when the pressure ran low, as the tanks emptied, was a considerable benefit. Also the problems associated with oil lamps on the move were not significant at a station, where someone could easily light the lamps when it got dark, and fill them when required, and turn them off when no longer required.  It probably gave the porters something to do between trains!