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or this - colours are adjustable

 

attachicon.gifWNRC arms Edwardian version.jpg

 

Wow!

 

There is no "awestruck" button,

 

But that is brilliant

 

Exactly what I had in mind for the castle, mitre and ship - just how I wanted them to look/imagined them, and yet you had the merest crude sketch to work from. Shield very clever in design and how it occupies the space. 

 

Thanks for bringing this to life, Phil.

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Wow!

 

There is no "awestruck" button,

 

But that is brilliant

 

Exactly what I had in mind for the castle, mitre and ship - just how I wanted them to look/imagined them, and yet you had the merest crude sketch to work from. Shield very clever in design and how it occupies the space. 

 

Thanks for bringing this to life, Phil.

I am glad it matches your vision, James. I decided that the lettering would only look good, if it was initially laid out in a straight line and each letter cut and pasted onto the garter 'manually'. I am of two minds as to the bevelling on the shield. It might look better flat, possibly with a small dropped shadow. The font is Wide Latin, but it has been squeezed and pulled about. Working in Photoshop that is easy to do. Once the basic shape had been formed and before chopping the text into single letters, I made a copy, underneath the yellow layer, with bevelled edges that stuck out slightly and then moved that down and right a couple of pixels to get the shading and finished it with a 'stroke' one pixel wide, around the shading layer. The devices were all grabbed from the net and simplified. The trickiest bit, for me was the bottom of the garter. I shall have to see if there is a ready made one on the net.

I don't know what a 4mm version will look like, but it is yours to do what you like with. I can send a jpeg - or two if I play around with the shield edge.

Best wishes

Phil

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It might be possible to get transfers made from Phil's artwork for your coaches.  It would also look good on Badges.

 

Don

 

Of course, I idly mention badges, not realising what that involves.

 

A brief look suggests that hard enamel is the way to go, but they are expensive.  The cheapest per badge cost I have found thus far is £3.42, and that is for at least 100.  The thought of running off a few to distribute amongst loyal parishioners by way of a "thank you" seems hardly practical.  Then again, I might win the lottery, or, even, sell my house!

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Your house still isn't sold?!?!

 

What on earth is the matter with people???

 

K

 

Yep, and it's a wee bit of a strain.

 

You will all be the first to know.  Put another way, if you ever log-on to a series of incoherent, alcohol-fuelled, but essentially ecstatic posts, you'll know it's gone.

 

We are just starting with our fourth set of estate agents (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65543006.html), and, finally, have found one that will adopt a sensible marketing strategy.  We have always said that it should be marketed to the South-East/London commuter, those being squeezed out of the Smoke, or Herts, who want to have a rural property 50 mins down the ECML from King's X and who would appreciate the sort of bang for bucks that they can't get where they are.

 

For us it was the perfect answer to balancing a job in Central London with the wish to bring the children up in the country.  I used to breeze in from Peterborough on a comfortable Inter-City coach, with armrests, WiFi, table etc, and without fail beat my colleague who had struggled along in a sweaty cattle truck from Croydon.  Surely, we thought, there would be others who would tumble to this advantage?

 

Within a week these new chaps have attracted two viewers (Essex and London).  So, fingers crossed.

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Shadow made the excellent suggestion of a Dodo.

 

We have a Ship to represent the Birchoverhams (Market, Town, Staithe, Thorpe, and Next the Sea) an important commercial centre.

 

We have a Mitre to represent Bishop's Lynn.

 

We have a Castle to represent Castle Aching.

 

I stuck a cross in the first quarter as I could not think of anything else at the time, but then Dave mentioned the Dodo, symbol of the Erstwhile dynasty.  Perfect.  So, in it goes.

 

I think you will agree that Phil has excelled himself with this:

post-25673-0-66088100-1494328221_thumb.jpg

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It might be possible to get transfers made from Phil's artwork for your coaches.  It would also look good on Badges.

 

Don

 

If only one of your loyal, but quiet, followers was in the business of custom transfers!!

 

I don't charge much either!!

 

Gary

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Well I was expecting to pay for my own badge. I have seen lower prices but perhaps that doesn't include printing. I was thinking perhaps it might be possible to print one off and fix the print into a badge they are mostly square plastic ones to take a name. I could print one with my name plus the WNR roundel and maybe others that would be useful at shows. A sort of ready flag of your interest such that fellow aficionados would recognise you.

I was not expecting you to go to the trouble of providing them.

Sorry to hear the House is still a problem. Good marketing is a key to selling a house including of course pricing particularly when over half a million in rural areas. Fingers crossed you soon get a sale. 

 

Don

 

edit forgot to add quite distinctive not many of these have a dodo on them

Edited by Donw
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Well I was expecting to pay for my own badge. I have seen lower prices but perhaps that doesn't include printing. I was thinking perhaps it might be possible to print one off and fix the print into a badge they are mostly square plastic ones to take a name. I could print one with my name plus the WNR roundel and maybe others that would be useful at shows. A sort of ready flag of your interest such that fellow aficionados would recognise you.

I was not expecting you to go to the trouble of providing them.

Sorry to hear the House is still a problem. Good marketing is a key to selling a house including of course pricing particularly when over half a million in rural areas. Fingers crossed you soon get a sale. 

 

Don

 

edit forgot to add quite distinctive not many of these have a dodo on them

 

Thanks, Don

 

I don't see why a plastic badge, or a homemade badge, wouldn't work.

 

I realise that you expected to provide/fund your own badge.  I just thought it might be a nice gesture on the part of Yours Truly, a small token of appreciation for the contributions made!  As usual, I was not being practical!

 

However, I am quite 'up for' a badge to aid mutual recognition.  I'd wear one.  I don't get out that often, and tend to be confined to the NE, but if I bumped into a Chap wearing a CA badge at a show, or preserved line, or what-have-you, I'd be delighted to claim acquaintance with the wearer.  if any other Parishioners feel likewise, I think they should feel welcome to.

 

I think the Dodo makes it.  It is, as you say, distinctive and adds that essential note of whimsy to the WN.

 

Very happy and grateful how this has turned out.  Thanks to Phil, Kevin and Dave.

 

Bit of a b*gger, the house, but I dare say it will sell eventually.

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Actually  James, l would be quite happy to contribute something to the transfer costs, with the thought that an embryo West Norfolk layout or industrial shunting plank with W.N.R. running rights wouldn't be incompatible with my interests either.

 

Running rights for the L.T.&S.R. though might be stretching things a tad too far............

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Talking of dodos, look what is opposite where I'm having my mid-cycle-ride lunch!

 

The current Lord Erstwhile appears to be sellin-off the few remaining family heirlooms.

 

K

 

And, better luck this time! The dodo sign must be a good sign.

post-26817-0-93660900-1494335374_thumb.jpg

Edited by Nearholmer
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Looking at the arms above, I am slightly concerned that having the devices on a shield has reduced their size, more than if they were just on a quartered background within the garter. In this online supersize they look OK, but I wonder if they will be visible when scaled down for carriage, tank or tender sides. It would be easy to do a simplified version for 4mm. Just a thought before people get into making transfers.

Like this - he says after 20 mins on the PC!

post-14351-0-84069300-1494335978.jpg     post-14351-0-20528700-1494336210.jpg

post-14351-0-73241200-1494337198_thumb.jpg

 

Edited by phil_sutters
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Actually  James, l would be quite happy to contribute something to the transfer costs, with the thought that an embryo West Norfolk layout or industrial shunting plank with W.N.R. running rights wouldn't be incompatible with my interests either.

 

Running rights for the L.T.&S.R. though might be stretching things a tad too far............

 

Well, other West Norfolk Railway layouts would be rather wonderful.  Kevin is, even now, planning to run an O Gauge BR Railbus on what were surely once WN metals to the coast!

 

I have thought of something similar myself: A plank representing Birchoverham Staithe, or the tramway terminus at Bishop's Lynn, or the Line's locomotive and carriage works etc, etc.

 

There are plenty of nooks and crannies to choose from, and physical connections with both the GE and the M&GNJ, so it would be very interesting to see what you come up with!

 

Of course, it depends upon the period you choose, but my thoughts on transfers were to try to get everything I needed in sufficient quantities on a sheet!

 

So far I had thought about the following styles as appropriate to the late-Victorian to mid-Edwardian period:

 

Wagons -  lettering white, possibly shaded as was sometimes the case at this period, and following the small lettering convention for the company initials, "W. N. R.", in one of the lower corners.  More modern (coming in around this time or the 1910s?), would be the large "W N".

 

White is very difficult - as domestic printers cannot print white.

 

Coaches, I had intended the class designations to be in words, e.g. "FIRST", rather than "1" or "1st".  I was going to use the HMRS Great Western transfers, as I like the font style, and they have First, Second, and Third on the sheet. They would be on the waist panel of the door.

 

Likewise I can use the HMRS transfers for the coach numbers.  Not sure whether to place these on the eves or waist panels (at each end).

 

I am not sure I necessarily need a matching "W N R" - but the garter symbol, central on the lower side, is essential.

 

Locomotives - This is where the real insanity takes hold.  A mid to dark green for the locomotives.  Currently I am thinking of the Rover Brooklands Green for the locomotives and coach lower panels.  It is the lining that is slightly bonkers, and I was assuming the need for professional help. This is complex and smaller panels might be best made in one, bespoke to each locomotive.  I would suffer a turbulent conscience if foisted this on Gary! 

 

All of the planned locomotives are Victorian, many from the early 1870s to the early 1880s, as is the Black Hawthorn pictured below (1873), and it is assumed that they are maintained in the livery devised around that time. You will note from the list of planned locomotives that the most recently acquired locomotives are second hand, so older, rather than newer, designs, and the most recent coaching stock could be as much as a decade old by 1905.  The WN seems, therefore, if not antiquated, to have a slightly old-fashioned feel to it.  In this I feel it is little different from the M&GNJ, or, indeed, from what was representative of the GE in the backwaters of Norfolk.

 

Thus, I was thinking "High Victorian" for the locomotive livery.  This is not at all unlikely.  In many aspects the WN is conservative. One of those aspects is the question of taste.  Wainwright kept his opulent lining going well past 1905, and the WN will be behind the large mainline companies in simplifying its liveries. 

 

There are also some personal preferences to factor in.  For instance, when it comes to lining I like the idea of incurves on the corners, you know, where the corner is a scalloped concave curve, rather than a convex curve, and, I like the idea of a "distance line".  I also like have coloured frames, chocolate brown, 'plum', red etc.

 

What we have here is a green locomotive with the main lining in black edged each side by red or vermillion, with incurves at the corners.  Splendidly, there is also a "distance line" inside the main lining, possibly in something like "Naples Yellow".

 

Note, too, how there is also a vermillion/black border, and now a simplified version of the lining scheme is applied to some small elements, here the sand boxes on the footplate.

 

Now, dark red frames lined yellow would then finish the thing off nicely!  

Looking at the arms above, I am slightly concerned that having the devices on a shield has reduced their size, more than if they were just on a quartered background within the garter. In this online supersize they look OK, but I wonder if they will be visible when scaled down for carriage, tank or tender sides. It would be easy to do a simplified version for 4mm. Just a thought before people get into making transfers.

Like this - he says after 20 mins on the PC!

attachicon.gifWNRC arms simplified for 4mm 50px.jpg     attachicon.gifWNRC arms simplified for 4mm 25px.jpg

attachicon.gifWNRC arms simplified for 4mm.jpg

 

Not a bad thought!

 

Looking at an HMRS GWR garter, I find it about 4mm across.  You have to know those are the twin shields of London and Bristol, at least with my naked eyes!  Your smallest version appears about 6mm wide on screen, so, yes, we are pushing it to discern anything at scale, even with the shield taken away.

 

We know it's there, though, and there is always the badge!

post-25673-0-01763500-1494336602_thumb.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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And, what about an alternative livery?

 

This features another favourite of mine, light panels against darker.  Rather than the distance line, the yellow in reflected in the inner line of the main lining.

post-25673-0-70359400-1494343561_thumb.jpg

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Not a very good image, I'm afraid, but you could have an in-period internal combustion engined loco in that sort of livery.

 

The bands down the sides are polished brass, and the name "Cadinen" is flanked by German imperial eagles. On the cab front is a lengthy dedication to the Kaiser.

 

This animal worked at the clay pits and clay-ware factory that were on the Kaiser's summer estate in what is now Poland, was built by Oberuseler Maschinenfabrik, and earned them a premium medal, which made them effectively "rail tractor builders by royal appointment". Somewhere I've got a copy of a photo showing Mr and Mrs Kaiser with one of the even earlier petrol locos from the clay-pit, which is of the "stationary engine, on wheels, in a garden shed" school of design.

 

It wasn't only our royalty who were into strange sidelines, but their cousins (nephew, actually, thinking about it) too.

 

Kevin

 

EDIT: Found it .....

post-26817-0-28128900-1494346991_thumb.png

post-26817-0-56683700-1494347170_thumb.png

Edited by Nearholmer
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Not a very good image, I'm afraid, but you could have an in-period internal combustion engined loco in that sort of livery.

 

The bands down the sides are polished brass, and the name "Cadinen" is flanked by German imperial eagles. On the cab front is a lengthy dedication to the Kaiser.

 

This animal worked at the clay pits and clay-ware factory that were on the Kaiser's summer estate in what is now Poland, was built by Oberuseler Maschinenfabrik, and earned them a premium medal, which made them effectively "rail tractor builders by royal appointment". Somewhere I've got a copy of a photo showing Mr and Mrs Kaiser with one of the even earlier petrol locos from the clay-pit, which is of the "stationary engine, on wheels, in a garden shed" school of design.

 

It wasn't only our royalty who were into strange sidelines, but their cousins (nephew, actually, thinking about it) too.

 

Kevin

 

EDIT: Found it .....

 

Fantastisch!

 

According to Wiki:

 

The German emperor Wilhelm II acquired Cadinen Manor in 1898 and had it rebuilt as his summer residence. A successful Maiolica tile factory was established there in 1905,[2] and many of those tiles were used to decorate the Old Elbe Tunnel in Hamburg and several Berlin U-Bahn stations. Wilhelm also had a breeding site for Trakehner horses established and the village developed as a fashionable seaside resort.

 

So, a country estate, horses, a 1905 vintage factory, and an odd little engine ...

post-25673-0-01255800-1494348499.jpg

post-25673-0-29102300-1494348528_thumb.jpg

post-25673-0-82830000-1494348545.jpg

post-25673-0-27185700-1494348563.jpg

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I would suffer a turbulent conscience if foisted this on Gary!

 

No need for that! You have provided plenty of help and encouragement to my layouts, and besides once I get basic shapes sorted they are generally pretty quick to make up.

 

I also have solutions for the lack of white ink in the printer!!

 

Gary

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Edwardian

 

The date for the majolica-ware factory is almost certainly wrong, in that the locos, at least the garden shed ones, pre-date 1905 (the postcard is dated 1902). In the NGRS archive, there is an Oberurseler catalogue from about 1905, which includes a great long letter of praise from the manager of the factory, setting-out the results of haulage tests that he ran with the locos, with varying numbers of skips-full of clay, on different gradients. He gives exact dates, but I can't recall what they are. I suppose it may be that a 'new and improved' factory was opened in 1905.

 

EDIT: looking at a German website, I think a general clayware factory was founded in 1699, modernised once the Kaiser bought the estate, and then the specialist majolica-ware factory built in, yes, 1905, with wares first coming to market early in 1907.

 

Anyway, I may, yet again, have dragged us ever-so-slightly off topic........

 

Kevin

Edited by Nearholmer
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Ze story it can now be told, Ja. Das majolika werke Ein cunning plan wos. Der soldaten for invasion sturmtruppen into Der flottenschiffen fur Der werke embarken. Total secretsecurity mit untercover agents, jawohl. Ve to GrossBrittannien are sailing vos, ein location totally isolatet on Der coast, vere our top untercover agent ein deserted railvay line mit dieselok searches for.

Das ein enigma wrapped in ein mysterische wrapped in chippapers is, mein freunde.

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Hmm, flat-bottom boats, concealed among the Frisian Islands might, land troops in harbours on the north coast of Norfolk too silted up for shipping of greater draft.  And the King, God bless him, will be in danger at Sandringham! Let's hope the Volunteer Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment can hold the Bosch at bay long enough for those daring Troopers of the Yeomanry to effect a lightening rescue dash!

 

The Dastardly Hun, trying to start World War One early, before we're ready for 'em!  Sounds like Winfrey's Last Case!

post-25673-0-05255100-1494359011.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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Talking of dodos, look what is opposite where I'm having my mid-cycle-ride lunch!

 

The current Lord Erstwhile appears to be sellin-off the few remaining family heirlooms.

 

K

 

And, better luck this time! The dodo sign must be a good sign.

Do I take it you were following proposed tramway routes again?

 

I gather Dodoantiques.co.uk is now as dead as its proverbial namesake.

 

Regards

Chris H

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Shamed by the fact that Gary Blue Lightening actually does the sort of modelling I only talk about doing, I thought it was about time I addressed myself to the issue of motive power.

 

I was horrified to find that, according to the date on the work-in-progress shots I'd posted, I had not touched locomotive No.1 for almost a year, since May 2016!

 

Duly chastened, I had a bit of a go at the weekend.  I finished filing down the engine block and stuck some acrylic tube over it for a new boiler.  The pitch of the boiler is significantly lower than on the donor locomotive, for one thing, and for another, I was determined to see daylight under the boiler, and now can. 

 

Patient Readers with Elephantine Memories will recall that this is a Neilson product, built to the same plans as Great Eastern T7.  She will always be No.1, not only because she is the first locomotive I planned for CA, but also because her sister engine was No. 1 on the Colne Valley line.  Whereas the Essex Sister changed from green to black livery and was rebuilt with a new cab and additional wing tanks in the '80s, the Norfolk Sister had no such alterations, retaining her distinctive original cab design (cabs were not provided at all for her GE Cousins when they were built!), and, another feature of which I am particularly fond, her smoke-box wing plates.

 

As can be seen, the motor intrudes all the way into the cab, so must in due course by masked by strategically placed driver and fireman.  Andrew Staddens, of course.

post-25673-0-90585200-1494360082_thumb.jpg

post-25673-0-53913900-1494360137_thumb.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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Hmm, flat-bottom boats, concealed among the Frisian Islands might, land troops in harbours on the north coast of Norfolk too silted up for shipping of greater draft.  And the King, God bless him, will be in danger at Sandringham! Let's hope the Volunteer Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment can hold the Bosch at bay long enough for those daring Troopers of the Yeomanry to effect a lightening rescue dash!

 

The Dastardly Hun, trying to start World War One early, before we're ready for 'em!  Sounds like Winfrey's Last Case!

 

Reminds me of 'The Riddle of the Sands' by Erskine Childers (I think) set pre-WW1 in about 1903, which warned of the dastardly Hun maneuvering to invade in just such a fashion! 

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