RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2017 I have been rather enjoying the Pre Raffs not for the element of titillation. If that is your taste the internet offers rather more. It is rather pleasant to see art which actually involves some artistry. At one time I would often visit the National Gallery at Trafalgar Square but was usually more drawn to the Impressionists, Mr Turner's view of the GWR and Monet's Waterlilies. The later showed clearly the inability of many to appreciate art. The parties touring the gallery would walk along quite close to the paintings for such a big picture one might get close to see the way it had been painted but you needed to stand back first to appreciate the painting. Close up it was rather just daubs of colour, stand back and it looks real as though there was reflections from the water. I do wonder if the allegory is missed by most people. Don 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Don I've been banging on about your last point in another thread. Older paintings often include an absolute mass of allegorical references, which art-ignoramuses like me completely miss. Galleries seem to have bucked the wider museum trend to provide lots, sometimes almost too much, interpretive information, so I remain as ignorant as ever I was. An A3 diagram, with key elements "called out" would go a long way to solving the problem. And, it wouldn't cost much. Kevin Edited July 18, 2017 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2017 This Do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Well ......... you're only half way there, really. It's missing any information about the allegorical content, which I guess in this case is the naming of the locomotive after a race horse, but maybe the use of three large driving wheels on each side would have instantly said "holy trinity" to an educated person in the C12th. K 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) This Do?And here's the picture to which it relates: Jim Edited July 18, 2017 by Caley Jim 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 Thanks again to DonW for patiently re-working the track-plan. I have printed it out again full size, and I am going to stick it all together and build 2 baseboards round it. Fingers crossed it won't block the doorway when it's done! In the meantime, I dedicate today's Pre-Raff to Don: 'I am half sick of Templot' said the Lady of Shalott, by John William Waterhouse,1915 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 'I am half sick of Templot' said the Lady of Shalott, by John William Waterhouse,1915 Are you sure that's in Britain? The round window suggests it may be inside a Mckeen Motor Car. The view from the window is probably some tasteless US theme park. This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Please excuse a mid-day comment when I should be working on the railway. The red-sailed boat is clearly on port-tack, and I suspect is probably on a broad reach (ie with the wind over it's port quarter.) In which the case the inattentive steersman (who is obviously on starboard tack) is is probably on a close reach, despite the apparent position of the luff on his mainsail. Perhaps he is just bearing-off a touch to gather speed so he can luff round the stern of the red-sailed boat as it crosses his bows? Or perhaps as you say he is just posing in a vain attempt to impress someone! That's it. Back to the soldering iron on this hot day! It may be as you say, but its difficult to interpret wind direction when the illustration has been created by someone with no sailing knowledge, probably working from a snapshot, simplifying as he goes. If the wind is more to his starboard side, then the red sail might be close to gybing itself and he's bearing off to port a tad to avoid the other silly ###### ok, blighter. If the wind is close to his stern, then the other boat is in irons and has the wind on the wrong side of her sail. It may be that the artist has merely neglected to draw the mast in...... Phew! Anyhow, never trust a yottie with a white peaked cap! AND a pipe in his free hand... Drat! Hashed again!!! Edited July 18, 2017 by Hroth 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Are you sure that's in Britain? The round window suggests it may be inside a Mckeen Motor Car. The view from the window is probably some tasteless US theme park. This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. I thought that was the mirror (which eventually crack'd from side to side) which the Lady of Shallots was forced to view the outside world through, until Sir Lancalot came trotting by, making a disgraceful racket! (edit) It is, but Waterhouse has neglected to paint himself in the reflection, he should be obscuring the left hand arches of the bridge... I like the Yankee Railmotor - is the brass thingie a small cannon to clear trainrobbers from the track? Edited July 18, 2017 by Hroth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) There are more than a few who sail on the broads, with a cigar in one hand, a glass of red in the other, somehow controlling the mainsheet and the tiller.. If you sail on the Broads you'll know H.T. H.T. is probably not in this picture but it's got a wherry in it and I liked it.. Edited July 18, 2017 by TheQ 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I wish to make a Complaint! We are currently enduring considerably more than one Pre-Raff of the day. It is 'a truth universally acknowledged' that many (usually rather) late Victorian men indulged in Pre-Raffs because of the explicit soft porn. Far be it from me to accuse gents clicking into this thread...but could posters at least include the model's names (e.g. how many times has Elizabeth Siddal or Maria Zambaco featured?) even if they are unable to provide contact details. dh Very late edit: In a desperate attempt to haul this thread back OT, I append here Jeanie Deans's visit to Effie Deans (by R I Herdman 1829-1888); a scene from Sir Walter Scott's 'The Heart of Midlothian' novel and (to please compound) the long time runner - sometimes in two directions at once - of the 2pm Scotch Express ex Euston. Jeannie Deans.jpg Ah well, the high and low pressure cylinders are the wrong way round but a compound's a compound for a' that - to adapt a West Coast poet. The irony is that, as I recall the novel, Jeanie's walk to London was by the East Coast route. Edited July 18, 2017 by Compound2632 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2017 You mean Brunel didn't ride a horse? J 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2017 You mean Brunel didn't ride a horse? J Too short - pony. But he could draw... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Fair point and certainly the high ideals of the Brotherhood did degenerate into the sort of thing you're talking about in the works of such Leighton and Godward. I've tried to raise the tone with Ford Maddox Brown's Work and The Last of England and reference to William Morris' scratchbuilding ethic but confess I was guilty of Rossetti's The Beloved. But remember, if it isn't this, it'll be JA again soon enough... No, not that one... My view of JA (that one, not the other!) was forever coloured by this Punch cartoon... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8bfmIgIMAA53Eu.jpg But remember, if there's ferns and/or urns, its art, not smut! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I like the Yankee Railmotor - is the brass thingie a small cannon to clear trainrobbers from the track? I thought they used to ride up beside the train and try to board it. A cannon at the front would just destroy the track ahead, and make their job easier! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I suspect that McKeen car has been de-motored, because the front truck doesn't look right. They had a 'doomed to fail' transmission, with no reverse, so they were generally turned on a turntable, rather than a 'wye', to avoid the faff of stopping the engine, altering the camshaft phasing, then restarting in the opposite direction. Contemporary with the WNR, though, so maybe one was imported ...... K Edited July 18, 2017 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 My pre-raff for today: "Distracting the Railway Surveyor" by William Holman Hunt https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/William_Holman_Hunt_001.jpg Well, someone has to do it...... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I suspect that McKeen car has been de-motored, because the front truck doesn't look right. They had a 'doomed to fail' transmission, with no reverse, so they were generally turned on a turntable, rather than a 'wye', to avoid the faff of stopping the engine, altering the camshaft phasing, then restarting in the opposite direction. Contemporary with the WNR, though, so maybe one was imported ...... K Quite right; here is a weblink to the freight version of the cars - http://www.thejumpingfrog.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=1383941 Yours Peter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Don I've been banging on about your last point in another thread. Older paintings often include an absolute mass of allegorical references, which art-ignoramuses like me completely miss. Galleries seem to have bucked the wider museum trend to provide lots, sometimes almost too much, interpretive information, so I remain as ignorant as ever I was. An A3 diagram, with key elements "called out" would go a long way to solving the problem. And, it wouldn't cost much. Kevin In the spirit of Randal Munrows book "Thing Explainer" ( https://xkcd.com/thing-explainer ) , I've annotated the locomotive section of TheQs illustration thusly.... (edit to get rid of spurious characters in the Thing Explainer link, preventing it from working...) Edited July 18, 2017 by Hroth 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 When I first became aware of these beasts, information was a bit hard to come by, but now there is a serious fan club website http://www.mckeencar.com/links-and-patents/ The whole question of whether to reverse the engine, or fit a reverse gear, went back and forth for nearly thirty years during the early period of i.c. rail traction, and I've seen one patent that hedged its bets by having a reverse gear for shunting, but changing engine rotation for 'the main drag'. CA really could have several early i.c. things, especially if it was supposed that a manufacturer had persuaded the WNR to take one on trial, perhaps for the tramway of the Wolfrigham branch. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2017 My pre-raff for today: "Distracting the Railway Surveyor" by William Holman Hunt https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/William_Holman_Hunt_001.jpg Well, someone has to do it...... Rather that than be chased off the land like many early surveyors. Mind you trouble may come of it. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2017 Thanks again to DonW for patiently re-working the track-plan. I have printed it out again full size, and I am going to stick it all together and build 2 baseboards round it. Fingers crossed it won't block the doorway when it's done! In the meantime, I dedicate today's Pre-Raff to Don: 'I am half sick of Templot' said the Lady of Shalott, by John William Waterhouse,1915 You can see by her expression she is trying to decide whether to opt for EM instead of 00 although P4 is tempting its a bit out of her league. In truth although Templot can be a bit of a slog to get started, once Edwardian decided the main station throat could be kept it wasn't difficult to move one turnout and shift three tracks. If the first turnout had been altered everything else would have to change Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Talking of early railmotors, this resin kit by Smallbrook Studios ( http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/products/4569521210/0e---7mm-Narrow-Gauge ) is rather sweet. Ok, its O16.5 so rather out of scale for CA but its of the era! Edited July 18, 2017 by Hroth 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 When I first became aware of these beasts, information was a bit hard to come by, but now there is a serious fan club website http://www.mckeencar.com/links-and-patents I'd like one like Mckeen tried to sell to the Fiddletown & Copperopolis RR, with swinging slatted doors of the type found in every Western bar! can't find a picture online I'm afraid 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 If the first turnout had been altered everything else would have to change Don Not an outcome to be contemplated! Thank you, Don. Over lunch I printed them out and laid them out on the dining table and I believe it will work! Thanks to TARDIS technology, Don has managed to include a very generous platform road. Very pleased with this! 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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