Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

A few (well, quite a few, actually!) years ago, I was out drinking with an old

mate of mine. The Salvation Army came round, rattling the 'donation pot',

he refused to donate, on the grounds that he didn't support 'para-military'

organisations, you should have seen the look on their faces!

 

Once knew a chap who, rebelling against his army background, joined something called the Campaign Against Militarism.

 

If ever there was an organisation with a self-defeating name ...

 

Returning briefly to matters ecclesiastical, I have long admired the spirit with which the United Reformed Church was named.  In the whole course of ecclesiastical history there can have been few examples of a church that was either united or reformed.  To be both at once seems inherently unlikely.   

[runs as required]

Returning briefly to matters ecclesiastical, I have long admired the spirit with which the United Reformed Church was named.  In the whole course of ecclesiastical history there can have been few examples of a church that was either united or reformed.  To be both at once seems inherently unlikely.   

I can at last  join in  after all those pages about springs the wrong side of W irons (would it have been anxiety about sheer stress in apparently sound visually assessed axles ?)

 

Your mention of 'apostolic succession' above got me pondering about the status of the forgotten parts of the Coptic Christian church (split off by the rapid spread of the Muslim Faith across from Asian peninsular along the southern Med).

It wasn't until the exploration of the Blue Nile that the Ethiopian Coptic church was rediscovered along with the black St Maurice. Ethiopians always liked to tell of their association with the Celtic church through artifacts such as surviving parchments being similar - from the days when the ealy Christians migrated out to safe fringes beyond the persecuting Roman Empire.

To return nearer to WNR interests - Alan Moorhead's "The Blue Nile" includes a stirring account of General Napier's 1868 Abyssinia campaign centred around building an India sourced railway from to Massawa on the Red Sea to rescue British missionary hostages

 

dh

[Nearholmer]

The Irish were Egyptians, long ago.

 

Not quite true, I think, but there now seems to be a growing body of evidence to support what "everyone has always known", that the Atlantic Celts had very close links with the Mediterranean and North Africa.

 

Which, rather indirectly, brings up the age-old question: And did those feet, in ancient time ........?

[TheQ]

I was reading a book not long ago about Ancient Britain including Ireland  and from that it appears that there is a high percentage of DNA that came from what is now Spain...

[Edwardian]

The Irish were Egyptians, long ago.

 

Not quite true, I think, but there now seems to be a growing body of evidence to support what "everyone has always known", that the Atlantic Celts had very close links with the Mediterranean and North Africa.

 

Which, rather indirectly, brings up the age-old question: And did those feet, in ancient time ........?

 

The Rector objected to our choice of Jerusalem for a wedding hymn on the grounds that the idea that Christ had visited these isles was canonically unsound.

 

I had many answers to this, as you may imagine, not least of were "it's posed as a question, not made as an assertion" and "couldn't he tell a case of employing a metaphor in support of a call for moral and spiritual regeneration".

 

The Memsahib just told him to shut up and agree to include it in the service, before she changed her mind about the whole thing.

[BG John]

The Rector objected to our choice of Jerusalem for a wedding hymn on the grounds that the idea that Christ had visited these isles was canonically unsound.

Surely, according to most of the published pictures of him, he probably never left these isles. He doesn't look much like your typical Middle Eastern carpenters wife's son! But then I suppose his Dad was from around these parts too, according to the pictures of him!

[Northroader]

The Irish were Egyptians, long ago.

Not quite true, I think, but there now seems to be a growing body of evidence to support what "everyone has always known", that the Atlantic Celts had very close links with the Mediterranean and North Africa.

Which, rather indirectly, brings up the age-old question: And did those feet, in ancient time ........?

http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?VIEWPDF=SY118696PDF

[Jamie Douglas]

FWIW apparently the Sennachies at the coronations of Scottish kings used to retell the genealogy of the Scots beginning in Skythia, moving through Egypt, travelling along the North African littoral, up through Spain and thence to Scotland and Ireland. Such were the legends but it was repeated in the Declaration of Arbroath 1320. How much belief and how much political expediency, who knows? 

 

Best wishes

Jamie

[Nearholmer]

"The Rector objected to our choice of Jerusalem for a wedding hymn on the grounds that the idea that Christ had visited these isles was canonically unsound."

 

Sounds as if your Rector was worried about encouraging a particular strand of mystic-Christianity that still flourishes around, in both senses, Glastonbury. I hears an host Ian say on the radio the other day that Blake was guilty of virtually every known heresy, at different times, then reel off a great long list of heresies, most of which I'd never even heard of, and very definitely couldn't tell you the meaning of!

[Edwardian]

"The Rector objected to our choice of Jerusalem for a wedding hymn on the grounds that the idea that Christ had visited these isles was canonically unsound."

 

Sounds as if your Rector was worried about encouraging a particular strand of mystic-Christianity that still flourishes around, in both senses, Glastonbury. I hears an host Ian say on the radio the other day that Blake was guilty of virtually every known heresy, at different times, then reel off a great long list of heresies, most of which I'd never even heard of, and very definitely couldn't tell you the meaning of!

 

A bit keen, was our Rector.  And rather too literal. He used to make rather pointed comments from the pulpit about how the church was the congregation, not the building, and how he wouldn't care if our church (a delightful little Thirteenth Century ironstone church) was swept away, and we had to reconvene in a field or a sports hall.  He was particularly vocal whenever a large bill for repairs to the roof or steeple was received. A committee of Friends of the Church, at least half of whom, to my certain knowledge, were atheists, kept it up largely to spite him.

 

I'm afraid I've always been of that essentially laid-back Anglican laity who believes that we once had a rather nasty Civil War that only went to show where excessive religious enthusiasm can get you! 

 

EDIT: Grammar

Edited September 15, 2017 by Edwardian

[teaky]

The rector at our wedding raised no objections to Jerusalem being one of our chosen hymns.  Mind you, I only met him twice so he had little opportunity.

 

Remarkably similar, English churches aren't they.

 

[Compound2632]

A committee of Friends of the Church, at least half of whom, to my certain knowledge, were atheists, kept it up largely to spite him.

 

Lord Melbourne was once praised by a lady for being a pillar of the Church. "Not a pillar, madam, a buttress. I support it from the outside."

[Nearholmer]

As a footnote to my previous, here is a long list of heresies in Wikipedia. Just imagine how much editing, and counter-editing goes on behind the scenes of this page! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies

 

The quotation above is absolutely brilliant. I've always wondered how I could be, to all intents and purposes, an atheist, but still feel great affection for the CoE; now I know.

 

K

Edited September 15, 2017 by Nearholmer

[mullie]

The vicar at our wedding raised no objections to Jerusalem at our wedding, but then we are both music teachers and my wife was teaching his daughter the flute at the time so I don't think he fancied his chances. Also, my parents had the hymn at their wedding.

 

Have to say our vicar was great.

 

Martyn

[Compound2632]

My sons' school chaplain* describes Jerusalem as "a series of questions to which the answer is 'no'."

 

I last sang it at Beamish Museum - we happened to hit the day the Durham County Federation of Women's Institutes were celebrating their centenary - parade in period costume etc.

 

*I know. It's not even a church school - just a perfectly ordinary state grammar school.

[Caley Jim]

...........  In the whole course of ecclesiastical history there can have been few examples of a church that was either united or reformed.  To be both at once seems inherently unlikely.

 

I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of reformed in this instance. They are 'reformed' in that their theology follows that of the Reformation started by Martin Luther, changing away from that of Roman Catholicism, rather than meaning that they have been re-formed. Reformed churches can therefore unite as much as they wish. The religious history of Scotland is full of schisms and later unions.

The Church of Scotland states that it is 'A Church Reformed and always Reforming'! (I won't attempt the Latin)

 

Jim

[Talltim]

Not reformed like ham then

[Edwardian]

Not reformed like ham then

 

https://youtu.be/g8huXkSaL7o

[wagonman]

At times like this I thank God I'm an Atheist

[TheQ]

At school we had a music teacher who was a fan of Jerusalem hence we were made to sing it a lot....

 

 

 

 

 

It didn't go down to well at Inverness high School singing of England's green and pleasant land.

[Donw]

It is interesting the statement that the Church is the congregation not the building it rather ignores the other element the priesthood. My experience of Churches is that the priesthood rather likes to tell the congregation what to think and how to understand its rule book the bible. The Catholic Church in particular is determined in this view and uses excommunication as a means of controlling the congregation. 

Having been aware of a sect that were obsessive about every word of the bible being true (they produced numerous pamphlets explaining it all) and also having had an RI teacher who pointed out to us a number of inconsistencies in the scriptures. You begin to realise it is not a good base for rational belief.

Personally I find a God who favoured a man who gave up his daughters to a mob to protect  fellow believers, and the same God sending bears to rip children to bits for laughing at his prophet a rather alarming concept.

 

Don

 

Not trying to decry anyone's faith more to question how the priesthood can be so prescriptive about what other believe.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Donw

[Hroth]

At times like this I thank God I'm an Atheist

The whole point of God is to have something to swear by!

 

Notice how we still tend to capitalise, despite....?

[Compound2632]

The Catholic Church in particular is determined in this view and uses excommunication as a means of controlling the congregation. 

 

Well, that might be somebody's understanding of the theory...

 

Probably time to move on from religion before we're moderated?

 

Perhaps we should stick to ecclesiastical architecture?

[Edwardian]

Let us remember, we are in Norfolk in 1905.  Most people are actively, rather than nominally, a member of a denomination and will attend Sunday worship. The Church of England plays a central role in village life, and the Rector's pastoral care extends beyond his own congregation to the whole parish.  It being Norfolk, I would expect there to be a Roman Catholic community, probably recusant, though they might have been bolstered by any Irish Navvies who stayed on, and I would also expect strong a Non-conformist presence, probably Primitive Methodist, as I have learnt that every Norfolk village seems to have a Primitive Methodist Chapel.  I would not expect people of other religions to be found in the rural Norfolk of the time, which by today's standards probably had diversity issues rivalling those of Midsomer (as in the Murders), though if I learn otherwise, that will be a pleasant surprise.

 

As a lapsed Anglican, I'm fairly sympathetic to atheism, agnosticism (which particularly appeals!), and most mainstream and moderate brands of religion. However, as the one ultimately responsible for Castle Aching, I have no doubt that my little people will be, by and large, fairly regular churchgoers!

 

PS: Surely we, of all people here, can get by without a Visit from Above!?!

Edited September 16, 2017 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Legs!