Castle Aching

[sem34090]

Ah, Mr Nearholmer...

 

I do not live from whence I travelled today! Camberley is not my home these days.

I'd been looking at a few 1950s bikes, as although too modern really they appear to be cheaper and easier to come by.

 

I would be cycling Alton to Medstead, not all the way from my Sussex home!!!

[Nearholmer]

Camberley to Medstead is easy going.

[Compound2632]

Only for mineral wagons. Merchandise wagons usually had the side knee irons on the outside to give an unobstructed interior.

 

Apologies for going back to those exposed knees again. I've been looking for examples to support this statement. The examples I can find are 1-plank wagons generally (ref. LNWR Wagons and L&Y Wagons) and the LNWR 2-plank Diagram 2 open. Higher-sided goods wagons pretty much universally have side knees on the inside - LNWR D4 and successors, plus of course the Midland's D299, though that was as much a mineral as a goods wagon. 

[sem34090]

Camberley to Medstead is easy going.

Ah, so you were basing it off of the South Coast then!

[phil_sutters]

I love this photograph (a Yorkshire volunteer battalion). Note the cyclists. 

There are a number of cycling related photos in the WW1 p.r. book Kitchener's Army, showing cycle scouts peering through hedgerows having dismounted, whole companies of cyclists including a large number of AA motorcycle scouts who volunteered to pedal rather than motor and there's one of two cycles with rifles across them being used to evacuate a wounded soldier - the bikes are being pushed rather than ridden, I hasten to add.

My mother's family were keen cyclists. I  think I have shown several of their photos already so I won't repeat them all here! This one is post-WW1 so may be a bit late for this forum.

[jcm@gwr]

As I said.... 

 

Though it IS the Panto season.   I bet her Twanky would go down well at the Christmas Party at the Drill Hall!

 

Well, I've never heard it called that before!  

[Nearholmer]

SEM - no, mostly the A272.

[sem34090]

Ah...

[uax6]

Ooft!

 

An unpopular man you may yet prove, Mr Hroth...

 

And what is wrong with period costume? Hmm?

1545470599512-1131609081.jpg

 

 

Is that a Railway Service war badge I see there?

 

I wear an LNER one every shift (all year round) on my Hi-Vis under my Poppy Badges.....

 

Andy G

Edited December 22, 2018 by uax6

[sem34090]

It is! I intend to do the same in November next year.

[Regularity]

Very nice!

I need a bike, preferably a period one.

Ah.

A menstrual cycle.

As I said.... 

 

Though it IS the Panto season.   I bet her Twanky would go down well at the Christmas Party at the Drill Hall!

Being played by Sven, perhaps?

[Annie]

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

 

I’m sure we’ve had bicycle troops, including that poster, before, but it’s an interesting topic, so ......

 

SEM - if you want to go any distance, you need a period (c1940s) touring bike, not a ‘sit up and beg’, and with one of those the ‘Alps’ should present no obstacle. But, they are very ‘sought after’, which is another word for expensive, because they are both very practical and very good-looking, and any resto would cost a fortune, because the parts are so hard to obtain. If you live roughly where I’m guessing, cycling time to Medstead is c3h 10m, with an impressive 1800ft of up-hill, compensated by c2000ft of downhill. Should be a good workout!

 

Cheap alternative is a brand new Pashley Clubman, which looks the part and is probably quite rideable, but only has three speeds.

I still own a prewar Wearwell path racer.  A truly lovely bicycle.  I'm no longer able to ride it of course, but I'm in no mind to sell it yet.

[phil_sutters]

May I have the temerity to draw the attention of the management of the WNR and the leaders of the local volunteers to this:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/Digest/LBSCR-Modellers-Digest-8.pdf

Although there may be a risk if deflecting interest to south of the Thames, i particularly want to draw your attention to the rail mounted gun. Not one of those First World War efforts but a much earlier one.You will also note a brief appearance by one of the CA parishioners.

Re where to put the BCR, I am having the same problem. As mentioned previously the club I belong to is working up a BCR layout, but since we want to be able to run both pre-grouping stock (exLNWR 4-wheelers) and post grouping (B&M, LSWR and H&B offcasts) since the infrastructure would have changed little, where does it fit? I too don't want to put a thread in the Layouts section. Suggestions please.

And Edwardian, words fail me regarding that interior. One question though? Will anyone be able to see it when the model is complete, or are you going to arrange virtual guided tours using a mobile miniature camera?

Jonathan

There is a model of the gun in Newhaven Fort, which is across the harbour from the site of the firing exercise in the photo.

[sem34090]

Nice! Don't sell it...

[Adams442T]

It appears to be a 40 pdr, but given it's a volunteer unit they would be expected to have, perhaps not the latest equipment!

[Hando]

Yes, from the Bishop’s Castle Railway Society. Almost by accident, from a chance comment made on their Facebook page.

I did have to move my previous layout on to a friend, though, as I had no space for both and I was bored with my own layout (despite the fact that for the past 20 years it had belonged to someone else before returning to me), which also needed a touch up here and there. It also means that after many, many years of meaning to get around to it, I finally joined the BCRS!

 

Edit: I would create a new thread, but true to form, the BCR doesn’t really fit into any pigeonholes that apply to most other railways. It wasn’t a light railway. It was never grouped. It wasn’t industrial. It wasn’t Colonel Stephens. It wasn’t narrow gauge, and unlike the Easingwold and North Sunderland, didn’t survive long enough to hire BR locos, either. I suppose it should go into the layouts forum, where true to form it can disappear amongst all the noise of everything else.

 

The Easingwold and North Sunderland weren't narrow gauge. They were independent railways, owned by an localised independent railway company, made up of businessman from the surrounding area, who operated the line (as the line it connected to weren't willing to lease the railway), which there were very few of; they were built cheaply with little infrastructure, but predated the Light Railway Act of 1896.

The Bishops Castle Railway is what is called "BTE" (built too expensively) and goes into the category of independent railways, another example is the Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales Railway, which the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Light Railway was built on. What tended to happen was the railway company would have very little investment and interest from larger companies, then splash all the money on building the line. They would go into receivership and then close or be taken over a few years later. This happened during the Railway Craze of the early 1860s as bills to build many hundreds of railways flooded the Houses of Parliament. Schemes failed left, right and centre, as those that got an act of parliament often wouldn't be built, due to a lack of investment or would end up as a "BTE". "BTE"s would utilise second-hand rolling stock to cut costs as they were very low on budget and close to being in debt, but then the problem would arise of having to repair both the line and rolling stock, especially the locos. This would become too expensive; causing the line to run down and eventually meet its demise.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[petethemole]

I see that the cycle troops have anti-aircraft mounts for their rifles....

 

Later versions carried the rifle at less extreme angles, culminating in this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=british+army+bicycle+ww2&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7vaT4vLPfAhWESxUIHcttAk4QsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1462&bih=721#imgrc=7K_1htmQTleP7M:&spf=1545483123161

 

The rifle carrying clips were available in surplus stores in the 50s/60s, Dad bought me a set to carry my fishing rod with. I could have done with them in more recent years when I was sometimes required to carry two 2m long ranging poles to jobs. The front lamp with blackout hood in the picture was also a cheap item, we had several, with matching rear lamps.

[Tom Burnham]

The Easingwold and North Sunderland weren't narrow gauge. They were independent railways, owned by an localised independent railway company, made up of businessman from the surrounding area, who operated the line (as the line it connected to weren't willing to lease the railway), which there were very few of; they were built cheaply with little infrastructure, but predated the Light Railway Act of 1896.

The Bishops Castle Railway is what is called "BTE" (built too expensively) and goes into the category of independent railways, another example is the Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales Railway, which the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Light Railway was built on. What tended to happen was the railway company would have very little investment and interest from larger companies, then splash all the money on building the line. They would go into receivership and then close or be taken over a few years later. This happened during the Railway Craze of the early 1860s as bills to build many hundreds of railways flooded the Houses of Parliament. Schemes failed left, right and centre, as those that got an act of parliament often wouldn't be built, due to a lack of investment or would end up as a "BTE". "BTE"s would utilise second-hand rolling stock to cut costs as they were very low on budget and close to being in debt, but then the problem would arise of having to repair  both the line and rolling stock, especially the locos, which would become too expensive; causing the line to run down and eventually meet its demise.

That's rather like what happened with the various companies that were eventually (in 1907 so a very Edwardian scheme) merged to form the Stratford-on-Avon and Midland Junction Rly, under the auspices of stock market player Sidney Herbert.  The line was smartened up and by 1909 they even managed to pay a small dividend on the much reduced capital.  The idea was to create something that one of the larger companies would buy (if only to keep it out of the hands of a rival), but they didn't manage to achieve that before the outbreak of war, Government control and then Grouping.

[Regularity]

The Easingwold and North Sunderland weren't narrow gauge. They were independent railways, owned by an localised independent railway company, made up of businessman from the surrounding area, who operated the line (as the line it connected to weren't willing to lease the railway), which there were very few of; they were built cheaply with little infrastructure, but predated the Light Railway Act of 1896.

 

I know.

It was a list of things the BCR isn’t.

The Bishops Castle Railway is what is called "BTE" (built too expensively)

 

In (well) over a third of a century of detailed interest in minor railways I have never heard that abbreviation or indeed phrase as a category, have you just made that up?

and goes into the category of independent railways, another example is the Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales Railway, which the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Light Railway was built on. What tended to happen was the railway company would have very little investment and interest from larger companies, then splash all the money on building the line. They would go into receivership and then close or be taken over a few years later. This happened during the Railway Craze of the early 1860s as bills to build many hundreds of railways flooded the Houses of Parliament. Schemes failed left, right and centre, as those that got an act of parliament often wouldn't be built, due to a lack of investment or would end up as a "BTE". "BTE"s would utilise second-hand rolling stock to cut costs as they were very low on budget and close to being in debt, but then the problem would arise of having to repair  both the line and rolling stock, especially the locos, which would become too expensive; causing the line to run down and eventually meet its demise.

Thank you for that. I don’t think anyone was aware of that process.

[Regularity]

That's rather like what happened with the various companies that were eventually (in 1907 so a very Edwardian scheme) merged to form the Stratford-on-Avon and Midland Junction Rly, under the auspices of stock market player Sidney Herbert.  The line was smartened up and by 1909 they even managed to pay a small dividend on the much reduced capital.  The idea was to create something that one of the larger companies would buy (if only to keep it out of the hands of a rival), but they didn't manage to achieve that before the outbreak of war, Government control and then Grouping.

Your dates are wrong, and some of your facts.

The Act, which effectively recognised and reformed three nominally independent but interconnected railways into a single corporate entity, was passed in 1908, and took effect in 1909. 18 months later, it absorbed the Northampton and Banbury Junction.

The new company had a large number of shares owned by the GCR. The aim was to get the GCR to buy the line to get them access to Stratford and thence via the North Warwickshire line to Birmingham - using some powers over the GWR as and where necessary, and possibly for a route to Northampton, Brackley - Helmdon (NBJR) - Blisworth - thence a short spur over the LNWR to a station in Northampton: with Buckingham, Peter Denny was a few miles south of something that very nearly happened.

This didn’t happen: before the Act was passed, the GWR and GCR had come to arrangements for better access to London for the GCR (which was initially dependent on joint lines with the Met, with whom the initial relationship was not good despite a common Chairman*) in return for which the GCR dropped its aspirations for a line to Birmingham.

That was why the SMJR wasn’t bought: by the time the act that would have enabled the sale to take place was enacted, the window of opportunity was long gone.

 

In theory, the line could have better become a part of the Midland, but no doubt the amount of upgrade work required and thus major capital expenditure was too much compared to the cost of running their banana trains via Birmingham and Wigston, which was the only reason for them being interested. A supposition supported by the Midland ceasing to use the route in 1912.

[Hando]

I know.

It was a list of things the BCR isn’t.

In (well) over a third of a century of detailed interest in minor railways I have never heard that abbreviation or indeed phrase as a category, have you just made that up?

Thank you for that. I don’t think anyone was aware of that process.

 

I made up the phrase "BTE" (hence quotation marks)

[Hando]

Your dates are wrong, and some of your facts.

The Act, which effectively recognised and reformed three nominally independent but interconnected railways into a single corporate entity, was passed in 1908, and took effect in 1909. 18 months later, it absorbed the Northampton and Banbury Junction.

The new company had a large number of shares owned by the GCR. The aim was to get the GCR to buy the line to get them access to Stratford and thence via the North Warwickshire line to Birmingham - using some powers over the GWR as and where necessary, and possibly for a route to Northampton, Brackley - Helmdon (NBJR) - Blisworth - thence a short spur over the LNWR to a station in Northampton: with Buckingham, Peter Denny was a few miles south of something that very nearly happened.

This didn’t happen: before the Act was passed, the GWR and GCR had come to arrangements for better access to London for the GCR (which was initially dependent on joint lines with the Met, with whom the initial relationship was not good despite a common Chairman*) in return for which the GCR dropped its aspirations for a line to Birmingham.

That was why the SMJR wasn’t bought: by the time the act that would have enabled the sale to take place was enacted, the window of opportunity was long gone.

 

In theory, the line could have better become a part of the Midland, but no doubt the amount of upgrade work required and thus major capital expenditure was too much compared to the cost of running their banana trains via Birmingham and Wigston, which was the only reason for them being interested. A supposition supported by the Midland ceasing to use the route in 1912.

 

The Strat was a sad affair, the line was in the wrong place at the wrong time and had ended up being ignored by two larger companies (the GCR and Midland) that just weren't into buying up the line for what it was worth.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Narrowgaugebeginner

[Compound2632]

Peace and goodwill, Simon. 

[Tom Burnham]

See attached from the Pall Mall Gazette of Thursday 11 April 1907.  The scheme clearly took a while from its conception to when it started to produce results.

 

 

Harry Willmott, who had previously been London District Goods Manager of the Great Eastern, became General Manager of the Lancashire Derbyshire & East Coast Rly, no doubt to protect the GER investment in that company.  He left when the LD&ECR was acquired by the Great Central.  He then became chairman of the SoA&MJR, with Sidney Herbert as vice-chairman. 

 

Did the Great Central unload their shareholding in the Stratford once it no longer formed part of their strategy?  I imagine the other shareholders would have been happy to accept any reasonable offer, whoever it was from.

 

Incidentally, Sidney Herbert made quite a business of orchestrating shareholder revolts against the management of smaller railways (the Cambrian and the Isle of Wight Central, for example).  The directors of the West Norfolk Railway must be hoping he doesn't decide to holiday on their part of the coast.

[Nearholmer]

Continuing to be bees about bikes, probably because I’ve got a really rotten old, and couldn’t cycle to the corner shop for f you pride me: the other WW2 military type was the folding one for parachutists, revived sans hinges by Pashley. Originals are pretty rare, but there are some around.

 

This bloke looks rather nervous on his.