Castle Aching

[sem34090]

 

Oh. Not that GN&SR.

Is it just me or is the GNoSR coach livery similar to the GN&SR?

[Hroth]

...  "a reference to the Wildreness of Wirral, home of Sir Gawain's Green Knight"  ...

 

As is said "From Blacon Point to Hilberee, a squirrel may leap from tree to tree".  (Not any more matey!)

 

As for the Alpine nature of Birkenhead, its lumpier on the WEST side of the penninsular than the eastern stretch, whilst the GCR, the Cheshire Lines and the WM&CQR got no nearer the Mersey than Bidston, apart from the line to Seacombe, which wasn't really up to much anyway!

 

Anyhow, I'm just going to contemplate the snow capped peak of Mount Bidston..... 

[Nearholmer]

"Snow capped". As I suggested in 15775. Cheshire Lines? Hmmm.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

Is it just me or is the GNoSR coach livery similar to the GN&SR?

Suggest you may have inspired in front of inspiration there: a novel reversal of cause and effect, which would have Einstein in a panic...

[wagonman]

Indeed. I remember that when I was small boy the local greengrocer, Mrs Tompsett, would stand in the middle of her shop, not a bit of plastic packaging in sight, and everything, her included, covered with a thin film of soil-dust, imbibing tea from the edge of her saucer, making strange slurping noises that have left a lifelong impression.

 

 

This, and talk of mobile shops, reminds me of old John Bone and his donkey cart. A man with a wooden leg who eked out his war pension by growing vegetables on his allotment and selling them door-to-door round the villages. A film originally shot in the '60s, is available from the East Anglian Film Archive at http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/203948.  Traffic is a lot heavier now...

[Annie]

Thanks for that Richard.  What a brilliant little film rich with period detail.

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant, with a rendition of that well-known Norfolk song A London Derriere thrown in at the end too.

[TT-Pete]

The French sub-titles make that even more fun.

 

Indeed, they give it a certain je ne sais quoi...

[webbcompound]

You will have to do some extensive pug-bashing to create this little sweetie. Once named Queen - presumably until HMQV was not amused.

 

WM&CQR 0 8 0ST no 6 GCR 400B LNER 400BC.jpg

the amazing thing about No6 was that it started its life in 1846 on the Manchester and Birmingham Railway as an 0-6-0 tender. Became an LNWR 0-6-0 tank, then an 0-8-0 on the WMCQR, then an 0-6-2 and finally an 0-8-0 which soldiered on for the GCR until finally being scrapped by the LNER in 1923. This kind of thing would give the WNR licence for all kind of wierd and wonderful variants if the stable wasn't already written down and fixed on the interwebs

.

 

As for Claude, Count of Liverpool becoming a WNR director that could lead dangerously to them coming to the attention of Mr Watkin and who knows where that might lead.

Edited January 15, 2019 by webbcompound

[Regularity]

As for Claude, Count of Liverpool becoming a WNR director that could lead dangerously to them coming to the attention of Mr Watkin and who knows where that might lead.

Given everything else being suggested, it would possibly lead to a tunnel under the German Ocean to Doggerland...

[Northroader]

As is said "From Blacon Point to Hilberee, a squirrel may leap from tree to tree".  (Not any more matey!)

 

As for the Alpine nature of Birkenhead, its lumpier on the WEST side of the penninsular than the eastern stretch, whilst the GCR, the Cheshire Lines and the WM&CQR got no nearer the Mersey than Bidston, apart from the line to Seacombe, which wasn't really up to much anyway!

 

Anyhow, I'm just going to contemplate the snow capped peak of Mount Bidston..... 

View from Liverpool across the Mersey to the Wirral, and beyond that the peaks, and a clear day and this time of year, they are snow covered.

 

[Argos]

the amazing thing about No6 was that it started its life in 1846 on the Manchester and Birmingham Railway as an 0-6-0 tender.

 

I'm intrigued by that, I thought the M&BR only had Sharp Stewart singles, and too many at that having loaned a couple to the L&B.

 

Do you know any more of its origin?

[webbcompound]

I'm intrigued by that, I thought the M&BR only had Sharp Stewart singles, and too many at that having loaned a couple to the L&B.

 

Do you know any more of its origin?

according to Boyd The loco was M&B No30 an 0-6-0 tender engine. which became LNWR 430, then 1222 by Feb 1866Rebuilt at Crewe as an 0-6-0 saddle tank in 1870 and renumbered1029 in Jan 1872  and bought by thw WM&CQR in June 1872. (bought in 1872 also says on the photo in Boyd, but the drawing says 1874)

[Donw]

Two of my Great Uncles had Grocers shops one in Hastings and one in London. They were fascinating places (to a small boy anyway) and certainly dusty. Remember though many things were sold loose and spooned,poured or shovelled into papers bags  then weighed.  It is possible that flour could be weighed into bgs from a sack obtained from the local mill in Edwardian days.

My Great Uncle Morris had a difficult childhood in Paris during WW1. It made him very cautious about money. When they finally gave up the shop it was a great relief to Auntie Dink, for decades they had to eat all the things he couldn't sell cracked eggs, stale bread, cheese and anything else that could go stale, bruised or going overripe fruit, and so on. It makes him sound a bit of a skinflint but he was a warm friendly person and would give you a lovely meal if you visited (and he had the french attitude to children drinking wine!). With today's eco/green concerns he would be ahead of the game he just hated to waste anything. I suspect the edwardian poor could little afford to waste anything. Lord Erstwhile would probably have quite a different attitude.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

the amazing thing about No6 was that it started its life in 1846 on the Manchester and Birmingham Railway as an 0-6-0 tender. Became an LNWR 0-6-0 tank, then an 0-8-0 on the WMCQR, then an 0-6-2 and finally an 0-8-0 which soldiered on for the GCR until finally being scrapped by the LNER in 1923. This kind of thing would give the WNR licence for all kind of wierd and wonderful variants if the stable wasn't already written down and fixed on the interwebs

.

 

As for Claude, Count of Liverpool becoming a WNR director that could lead dangerously to them coming to the attention of Mr Watkin and who knows where that might lead.

 

Given everything else being suggested, it would possibly lead to a tunnel under the German Ocean to Doggerland...

 

Part of the West Norfolk Railway's Schleswig-Holstein Extension ...

 

 

View from Liverpool across the Mersey to the Wirral, and beyond that the peaks, and a clear day and this time of year, they are snow covered.

 

1A17BBDF-42B9-4019-9D42-A4E4DC09A099.jpeg

 

Back the other way (no snow, though)....

[Hroth]

View from Liverpool across the Mersey to the Wirral, and beyond that the peaks, and a clear day and this time of year, they are snow covered.

 

1A17BBDF-42B9-4019-9D42-A4E4DC09A099.jpeg

 

What we see in the photo are:

 

The two grey concrete ventilation towers of the Wallasey(Kingsway) vehicular tunnel.  The far tower is in Seacombe, close to the site of the former Seacombe station.  The road tunnel emerges and passes along the line of the former railway towards Bidston.

 

Thr tip of the far cooling tower aligns with Bidston Hill, the white buildings on the crest to the right are Bidston Windmill and part of the former Bidston Observatory.  The urban area to the right  is Wallasey, shading into New Brighton.

 

Beyond the crest of Bidston Hill, the peaks are the hills and mountains of North Wales, on the far side of the Dee estuary. The lower bumps are the Flintshire hills, and the further bumps are the higer hills between those and the Snowdonia range, the tips of which can be seen if you follow vertically from the closer ventilation tower.

 

I would surmise that the photo was taken from Everton Brow.

[Hroth]

 

Back the other way (no snow, though)....

 

Thats a bit further south, looking over the Stanlow Oil Refinery towards Speke (I'm sorry "John Lennon") airport on the far bank of the very bulbous Mersey estuary from Helsby Hill.

[Edwardian]

What we see in the photo are:

 

The two grey concrete ventilation towers of the Wallasey(Kingsway) vehicular tunnel.  The far tower is in Seacombe, close to the site of the former Seacombe station.  The road tunnel emerges and passes along the line of the former railway towards Bidston.

 

Thr tip of the far cooling tower aligns with Bidston Hill, the white buildings on the crest to the right are Bidston Windmill and part of the former Bidston Observatory.  The urban area to the right  is Wallasey, shading into New Brighton.

 

Beyond the crest of Bidston Hill, the peaks are the hills and mountains of North Wales, on the far side of the Dee estuary. The lower bumps are the Flintshire hills, and the further bumps are the higer hills between those and the Snowdonia range, the tips of which can be seen if you follow vertically from the closer ventilation tower.

 

I would surmise that the photo was taken from Everton Brow.

 

Thats a bit further south, looking over the Stanlow Oil Refinery towards Speke (I'm sorry "John Lennon") airport on the far bank of the very bulbous Mersey estuary from Helsby Hill.

 

So, no alps in the Wirral after all ...

[Hroth]

So, no alps in the Wirral after all ...

It depends on the scale, if we're all 4mm/ft then Mount Bidston is pretty alpy.... 

 

I must add that just beyond the houses in the foreground you can make out the railway from Ellesmere Port to Warrington, along which the GWR had running powers, and bisecting from l/r in the middle distance the M56.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Hroth

[Edwardian]

One of the prize items of motive power on the WNR is a GNoSR 4-4-0, did any of the coaches come with it, as they never did have second class, setting a standard for others to copy?

 

It came with a couple of Triang hacks in GNoSR colours

 

All Third Class I'd say!

[Edwardian]

Soldiers of the Queen as Soldiers of the King.

 

Zulu War infantry as Edwardian Volunteers. 

 

I doubt that, given their scale and intended positioning, the fact that they bear 1870s valise equipment and Martini Henrys instead of Slade Wallace and Lee Metfords will be at all discernible!

 

Clearly they all share the same barber, as well as the same tailor. 

[TheQ]

I very much doubt volunteer regiments would have had the latest equipment, 1870's is probably about right. After all in the late 1970's I was issued gear dated pre 1945..

[Edwardian]

I very much doubt volunteer regiments would have had the latest equipment, 1870's is probably about right. After all in the late 1970's I was issued gear dated pre 1945..

 

Not the latest, but probably not that old.

 

Uniforms

 

The Zulu War period tunic had facing patches on the fronts of the cuffs and collars.  The later tunics had collars and cuffs wholly in the facing colour, i.e. they went all the way round.  This can easily be amended by painting in the appropriate style.

 

Facing colour is more problematic. I have a theory, for which I have no conformation. In a number of photographs, and in the modern colour reconstruction below, the Volunteers are, or appear to be, wearing tunics with white facings. This is 'wrong' because as Volunteer Battalion Regiments, logically they should wear the facing colour of that regiment. 

 

In the case of the Norfolk Regiment (in CA's world, the East Norfolk Regiment) had yellow facings.  The old 54th, which in CA's world survives as the West Norfolk Regiment, wore green facings.

 

I think that the explanation of white-faced Volunteer Battalions lies in the introduction of white facings for all English and Welsh regiments in 1881. This was part of the Childers reforms that brought the Militia and Rifle Volunteers into county regiments as 3rd and 4th Battalions.

 

The effacing (pun intended) of traditional facing colours was very unpopular and subsequently a number of regiments were able to restore their colours.  Uniform plates of the 1890s and 1900s tend to show home service scarlet tunics with regimental facing colours. 

 

My theory is that the Volunteer Battalions might have been less likely to acquire Regimentals with the restored facing colours.

 

Equipment

 

The valise equipment (webbing in modern parlance) worn in the Zulu War was introduced in 1870.  Its replacement, Slade Wallace equipment, was introduced in 1888.  I suggest that the Volunteers of 1905 would have had the later equipment, but frankly, the differences are not really obvious at scale. 

 

Rifle

 

The Lee-Metford was also introduced in 1888.  I doubt very much that the Volunteers of 1905 would have been issued with the 1903 Lee-Enfield - clearly they were yet to adopt 1902 Home Service khaki - but they would have carried Lee-Metfords in my estimation.

 

While there is close family resemblance between the Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield, the Martini Henry looked rather different, so we're fudging here. 

 

The Norfolk Regiment, 3rd Volunteer Battalion, 1906: 

 

EDIT: I think it is a Lee-Metford in the picture below; it's certainly not a Martini Henry

Edited January 16, 2019 by Edwardian

[corneliuslundie]

So the Schleswig-Holstein question was really about who owned the local railways. If it had been I would not be here as one of my paternal ancestors - never sure whether great or great, great - emigrated from Schleswig-Holstein to England as a result of the result of the plebiscite. Perhaps, however, in this other world I might have been manager of the Schleswig-Holstein Railway. Which of course might have linked with the MS&L via a few islands and Doggerland. Perish the thought of having Watkin as a boss. Interesting, I believe that Cornelius Lundie borrowed his Rhymney Railway locomotive livery from the MS&L/GC.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

So the Schleswig-Holstein question was really about who owned the local railways. 

 

Which would make you only the fourth person to understand the Schleswig-Holstein Question, as, according to Palmerston ...

 

The Schleswig-Holstein question is so complicated, only three men in Europe have ever understood it. One was Prince Albert, who is dead. The second was a German professor who became mad. I am the third and I have forgotten all about it.