Castle Aching

[Tom Burnham]

2 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

We continue onwards towards the next station, Wittersham Road, through marshlands collectively known as the Rother Levels. To the right a series of channels dug at right angles to the railway were used to farm crayfish - the terrain generally is very wet and until comparatively recently was subject to frequent flooding.

quoted from  https://www.kesr.org.uk/component/content/category/103-about

As I understand it in use from early 1900 to  WWII

 

Nick

 

Hi Nick - i thought the crayfish ponds were relatively recent - certainly in their last form. I remember them being dug.  1970s maybe?  It's surprising how quickly they've become overgrown and silted up since they were abandoned.  

[ChrisN]

8 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

If any of you want the information Ii currently have drawings of quite a number of GWR saloons - first and third class, invalid etc. They are from Diagram books, originally mostly blueprint copies of the originals. a sample attached.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I am sure I have been looking for something like this.  What 'G' number is it?  Is that a wall between the two sets of settees?  ("Mama, I need to toilet!" "Cross your legs and pray for a station dear."

[corneliuslundie]

I don't have a diagram or lot number they are not on the drawing. I'll see if John Lewis knows.

And it does look like a wall rather than a door though in fact the door to the toilet looks the same, so perhapos not. There seem to be a few designes with two separate compartments which are definitely not linked by a door.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

It's a family carriage, it would be hired by a single family. I suppose there might be specialised vehicles for families who weren't all speaking to each other. The half who'd been put in the end with no lavatory access definitely wouldn't be on speaking terms afterwards anyway.

 

Sorry about that. I think I have to make a post-revamp post in this thread for it to appear in "Content I Posted In" which replaces "My Content".

 

EDIT: That worked.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

I reckon, based on Victorian Family Values, that the non-lavatory end is for chaps, and that the two individual seats at the far-right are the smoking chairs, where fathers sat, to get as far away as possible from any mewling and puking that might be going on in the ladies and children section. Children might be admitted to the chaps’ section to be patted on the head during long stops at Carlisle, but would have to return to the other end before departure.

[Northroader]

74 and 75 appear as 4wheel G16 saloons on the Penrhos Junction site, formerly BG 6wheelers.http://www.penrhos.me.uk/Mdiags.shtml

[Annie]

10 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

If any of you want the information Ii currently have drawings of quite a number of GWR saloons - first and third class, invalid etc. They are from Diagram books, originally mostly blueprint copies of the originals. a sample attached.

Jonathan

(carriage plan image snipped)

I will confess to having a slight weakness for saloon carriages Jonathon.   The original litho artwork I did was inspired in part by the Hurst Nelson built open saloon coaches for the Rother Valley Railway  http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/colonel stephens society drawings service-35/index.html  though I'm not sure where the rest of the inspiration came from (wild and vivid imaginings?)  If I'd continued with the coach litho's intended purpose it would have ended up on a plywood body and become an 'O' gauge coach.

I have made a digital model GWR saloon, but then an excellent and highly skilled digital modeller named Steve Flanders set about making a very large number of pre-grouping era GWR coaches and because his were so good and waaaaay better than anything I could do I gave up on making any more myself.

[corneliuslundie]

Agreed on G16 though we seem to differ on the number of wheels. This is definitely an official GWR drawing so perhaps it ran at first with six wheels on the standard gauge and was then altered.

Annie, I wish i had recourse to those GWR carriages but I use Microsoft Train Simulator and don't have such luxuries - though lots of other things including some nice Australian and NZ routes - and the best new routes based on British prototypes are being produced in Australia. 

Edwardian, we rally must give you back your thread some time.

Jonathan

[Martin S-C]

2 hours ago, sem34090 said:

May see if I have any smaller ones - Would a coach ever have spoked wheels?

If they are wagon wheels what is the diameter? I am assuming you mean 12mm. If that is the case then there is something going wrong with the ride height of the chassis. If they are 14mm wheels I would try 12mm ones - perhaps disc wheels - but also see if you can fettle into place a solid Maunsell type disc to hide the spokes or holes.

[nick_bastable]

4 hours ago, Tom Burnham said:

Hi Nick - i thought the crayfish ponds were relatively recent - certainly in their last form. I remember them being dug.  1970s maybe?  It's surprising how quickly they've become overgrown and silted up since they were abandoned.  

knew nothing about them until a couple wandered into the museum  and asked about the watercress beds !  which led to me investigate  further  you may well be correct  however various things I have read indicate a much longer life

 

Nick

 

edit for spell check been naff

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by nick_bastable

[sem34090]

2 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

If they are wagon wheels what is the diameter? I am assuming you mean 12mm. If that is the case then there is something going wrong with the ride height of the chassis. If they are 14mm wheels I would try 12mm ones - perhaps disc wheels - but also see if you can fettle into place a solid Maunsell type disc to hide the spokes or holes.

Sounds ridiculous but I didn't measure them!

I've replaced them with some from a Ratio China Clay wagon kit and that has improved matters greatly - see my thread for a photo.

These new ones are 3-hole disc wheels so I may still try and make them a bit more Mansell-y (Not Maunsell!!!).

[corneliuslundie]

Reply from john Lewis about that saloon:

These two Family saloons were built as BG coaches .

Their history is:

Built BG No/Date: 372    30 Nov 1876         373    13 Dec 1876

To NG  No/Date    74     2 Oct 1892             75      17 Sep 1892   (In 1st class series)

Renumbered          9005  16 Feb 1907          9006  23 Apr 1907

To Fruit & Parcels 1310  20 Apr 1925          1311  30 Jan 1928 (Passenger vans series)

Condemned                     12 Feb 1932                    30 Jun 1934

They were given gas lighting on conversion to NG and steam heating in 1896.

So suitable for Traeth Mawr.

Jonathan

[Skinnylinny]

Spoked wheels on passenger carriages were definitely still used on the brake coaches when Stroudley was designing coaches for the LB&SCR. I feel that would have been rather later than the 1840s!

 

Edit: 1880s at least!

Edited February 2, 2019 by Skinnylinny

[sem34090]

That's true...

[Nearholmer]

In danger of thread-napping, but Annie might be interested to note the below piece of overlay work, by Brian Wright for Ace coach, one of a series of designs he did for them. His overlays are very high quality ‘photographic paper’, glossy stuff, rather than traditional paper. Which G diagram it is, I can’t fathom, maybe G20?

[runs as required]

Gosh! 'The past is a Foreign Country and everywhere is in Chains' to superglue a duplex quote.

I've just emerged from a week from wrestling with adapting from an XP Windows PC to a (hand-me-down) MacBook Pro to find the RMweb world outside has moved on!

On the plus side I have been enjoying vol 1 of GW Broad Gauge engines. There are some wonderful working drawings, early 1840s engineer's sketches of details and photographs. Great value for £20.

dh

 

PS Gonna have to re-work Brunton's steam horse if I'm to stay around...

[nick_bastable]

this member thinks he may need several  prolonged moments to understand the redecorated council chambers

 

Nick

[Annie]

I always thought that particular family saloon was a particularly interesting one Kevin.  Notably different to others of its breed and relatively modern looking by comparison.  Family saloons and other saloons of similar kind are something I find really interesting.  With all the myriad types produced by the pre-grouping railways I could just about build nothing else for the rest of the year and not repeat myself even once. 

 

[Charlie586]

11 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Reply from john Lewis about that saloon:

These two Family saloons were built as BG coaches .

Their history is:

Built BG No/Date: 372    30 Nov 1876         373    13 Dec 1876

To NG  No/Date    74     2 Oct 1892             75      17 Sep 1892   (In 1st class series)

Renumbered          9005  16 Feb 1907          9006  23 Apr 1907

To Fruit & Parcels 1310  20 Apr 1925          1311  30 Jan 1928 (Passenger vans series)

Condemned                     12 Feb 1932                    30 Jun 1934

They were given gas lighting on conversion to NG and steam heating in 1896.

So suitable for Traeth Mawr.

Jonathan

 

It's handy to know they were originally BG . There's a photo in the first Russell carriage book of a saloon though a different layout. 

I had a look on the BGS email group but couldn't find anything specific about these carriages. It would be interesting to know if the BG carriage was originally wider as the composites built then were 10'6. However I did learn that the LAV + WC means a washbasin  (from laving) at one end and water closet at other.

[Nearholmer]

Annie

 

is that coach preserved at Didcot?

 

K

[Annie]

Yes it's at Didcot Kevin.

[sem34090]

Ah Didcot - Wonderful place though they could do with some proper locos (Domeless engines aren't respectable!  ). Had my first experiences of a railmotor and travelling in a clerestory coach there back in September.

[Owd Bob]

Five pages and just as many days behind behind as usual, but i'm back up to speed and glad to report i actually did some modelling during the enforced lay-off this week.

So going back to seeing lines under water reminded me of some local pics' i'd seen, here's some pics' of 'Pennington Flash' Leigh Lancs' The 'Flashes' were created by large areas of farm land being flooded by severe mining subsidence. The line or parts of it are still there but mostly under water now as the whole area was made into a Country Park and Golf course. The last pic' is of a local  bus in a pit lodge, the rumor was it was an Husband and Wife driver & Clippy team on the bus who had a big falling out over another 'Clippy'  Somehow the Wife got to the controls and deliberately drove it in.  Sounds like something off the 'On The Buses' '70's T.V. show.

 

[Annie]

And after a bit of struggle because I couldn't get a couple of details to go how I wanted this is the final version of my W.N.R composite saloon coach.  I don't think I will be needing anymore than three W.N.R. coaches and more than likely all three being seen together at the same time while attached to a passenger train heading for Hopewood on Sea would be a rare event.  I can see the composite saloon being hired out and  being a regular visitor to the tramway on its ownsome during Summer though.

[ChrisN]

15 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Reply from john Lewis about that saloon:

These two Family saloons were built as BG coaches .

Their history is:

Built BG No/Date: 372    30 Nov 1876         373    13 Dec 1876

To NG  No/Date    74     2 Oct 1892             75      17 Sep 1892   (In 1st class series)

Renumbered          9005  16 Feb 1907          9006  23 Apr 1907

To Fruit & Parcels 1310  20 Apr 1925          1311  30 Jan 1928 (Passenger vans series)

Condemned                     12 Feb 1932                    30 Jun 1934

They were given gas lighting on conversion to NG and steam heating in 1896.

So suitable for Traeth Mawr.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.

 

Very much so.   It is all GWR coaches at the moment though when I get a chance to do any modelling.