Castle Aching

[sem34090]

What Gary said - You are to never say that your modelling ability is lacking ever again.

 

Understood?

Quote

 

It looked like a deep wooden solebar, and that's certainly what I'd expect to see on such a short coach.

 

If you want smaller wheels, Allan Gibson does 12mm Mansells

I intend using these, combined with the Ratio 4-Wheeler kits, for the proper versions: http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=RO570

Will those do?

 

[K14]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

This is the saloon for warring families, Diagram G11. No door between sections and no conveniences. there are other "double" saloons like this.

Jonathan

 

 

Presumably this is what the attached PDF refers to as a "Semi-Saloon".

 

GWR Saloons - April 1896.pdf

 

Pete S.

 

[uax6]

The problem with wagon underframes in use for coaches is that they are wagon underframes. The springs are too short for comfort, you get external handbrakes, which are just daft on a coach, and there are no automatic brakes (as required by the BoT).

If you use the solebars and then add etched w-irons and proper long carriage springs, it will look better,  but it would be quicker to make it all yourself.

 

Heres an image from the SRPS of their HR 4 wheeled full brake, that is 100% original, showing a very basic underframe (the brake gear had been removed when it became a stores van at Inchlea Signalbox (still on its own wheels and its own bit of track). Note no crown plates above the axleguards like on a wagon.

 

 

https://www.ambaile.org.uk/?service=asset&action=show_zoom_window_popup&language=en&asset=23619&location=grid&asset_list=23739,8158,8160,23592,23593,23594,23595,23596,23597,23598,23599,23600,23601,23602,23603,23604,23605,23606,23607,23608,23609,23610,23611,23612,23613,23614,23615,23616,23617,23618,23619,23620,23621,23622,23623,23624,23625,23626,23627,23628,23629,23630,23631,23632,23633,23634,23635,23636,23637,23639&basket_item_id=undefined

This shows another HR carriage, which has AVB gear, but you'll be hard pressed to see it in the photo!

And another https://www.ambaile.org.uk/?service=asset&action=show_zoom_window_popup&language=en&asset=23742&location=grid&asset_list=23694,23695,23696,23697,23698,23699,23700,23701,23702,23703,23704,23705,23706,23707,23708,23709,23710,23711,23712,23713,23714,23715,23716,23717,23718,23719,23720,23721,23722,23723,23724,23725,23726,23727,23728,23729,23730,23731,23732,23733,23734,23735,23736,23737,23738,23740,23741,23742,23743,23744&basket_item_id=undefined this one might still have the chain brake.....

 

[Annie]

Fascinating.  Thanks for posting that PDF copy of that document Pete.  Plainly Family Saloons and Invalid Saloons were considered to be a cut above other kinds of coaching stock and greater care was taken with them.

 

I'd like to see if I can make a version of the Semi-Saloon.  I'm a little restricted in that my base coach mesh is for a six wheeled coach that is not much longer than some four wheel coaches so some careful compression might be needed.

[Martin S-C]

Drill Hall looks simply superb James. Now onwards and upwards with the rest of CA! En avant!

[sem34090]

34 minutes ago, uax6 said:

The problem with wagon underframes in use for coaches is that they are wagon underframes. The springs are too short for comfort, you get external handbrakes, which are just daft on a coach, and there are no automatic brakes (as required by the BoT).

If you use the solebars and then add etched w-irons and proper long carriage springs, it will look better,  but it would be quicker to make it all yourself.

 

Heres an image from the SRPS of their HR 4 wheeled full brake, that is 100% original, showing a very basic underframe (the brake gear had been removed when it became a stores van at Inchlea Signalbox (still on its own wheels and its own bit of track). Note no crown plates above the axleguards like on a wagon.

 

 

https://www.ambaile.org.uk/?service=asset&action=show_zoom_window_popup&language=en&asset=23619&location=grid&asset_list=23739,8158,8160,23592,23593,23594,23595,23596,23597,23598,23599,23600,23601,23602,23603,23604,23605,23606,23607,23608,23609,23610,23611,23612,23613,23614,23615,23616,23617,23618,23619,23620,23621,23622,23623,23624,23625,23626,23627,23628,23629,23630,23631,23632,23633,23634,23635,23636,23637,23639&basket_item_id=undefined

This shows another HR carriage, which has AVB gear, but you'll be hard pressed to see it in the photo!

And another https://www.ambaile.org.uk/?service=asset&action=show_zoom_window_popup&language=en&asset=23742&location=grid&asset_list=23694,23695,23696,23697,23698,23699,23700,23701,23702,23703,23704,23705,23706,23707,23708,23709,23710,23711,23712,23713,23714,23715,23716,23717,23718,23719,23720,23721,23722,23723,23724,23725,23726,23727,23728,23729,23730,23731,23732,23733,23734,23735,23736,23737,23738,23740,23741,23742,23743,23744&basket_item_id=undefined this one might still have the chain brake.....

 

For starters I won't be including the handbrakes, and the vacuum cylinders from the 4-Wheeler kits will also be reused. The reason for using a wagon chassis is that it is more likely to actually run than a cut-and-shut chassis. Footboards should mask the worst of it.

 

Besides, who said the Blackstone & Marshland railway was comfortable?  

[NeilHB]

James - wow, just simply wow. The drill hall really is utterly superb! 

[Londontram]

18 hours ago, sem34090 said:

For starters I won't be including the handbrakes, and the vacuum cylinders from the 4-Wheeler kits will also be reused. The reason for using a wagon chassis is that it is more likely to actually run than a cut-and-shut chassis. Footboards should mask the worst of it.

 

Besides, who said the Blackstone & Marshland railway was comfortable?  

I've mounted a few cir 1860s coaches on the odd goods wagon chassis and in a few cases on brake van chassis with detail either added or cut back to suit and as you say the foot boards pretty much cover up a multitudes of sins

 The thing to check is that the w iron goes behind the solebar, a lot of coaches at that period had the w iron bolted to the outside of the solebar and I  now do most of the detail work on the Silhouette making the w irons non supporting cosmetic only with the wheels running on inside bearing.

 Here's an example

Edited February 4, 2019 by Londontram

[CF MRC]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

From you, Sir, that means a lot. Thank you.

 

 

At times it's seemed purgatorial, but I wouldn't quite go that far!

 

Besides, it says "Defence not Defiance" over the door!

That is a magnificent building James.  May I suggest a little weathering to make it a little less ‘new’ ?  I find that using dark green thin washes of watercolour from anywhere where water would run or accumulate adds a sort of ‘grounding’ to a building, i.e. from the ground up, from prominent features, into gullies, off roof ridges.  In the pictures below you can see the effect on the railway boundary wall and other areas, such as where the Mission Hall roof meets the London terraced houses.  It needs very little to be effective. 

 

 

 

Tim

[Donw]

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

I think that we may now regard the Drill Hall as substantially complete. Phew.

 

What a superb piece of work James a real tour de force. I suggest one of the Model Railway mags should be asking you for an article.

 

Don

[phil_sutters]

9 hours ago, Annie said:

Fascinating.  Thanks for posting that PDF copy of that document Pete.  Plainly Family Saloons and Invalid Saloons were considered to be a cut above other kinds of coaching stock and greater care was taken with them.

 

I'd like to see if I can make a version of the Semi-Saloon.  I'm a little restricted in that my base coach mesh is for a six wheeled coach that is not much longer than some four wheel coaches so some careful compression might be needed.

I know that I have drawn attention to this restoration company, to which I have no connection, in previous notes, but here is a project to restore a saloon, which may be of interest.   http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album/404587

I particularly like this shot - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/31305389/in/album/404587 - 1:1 scale kit for a door.

Edited February 4, 2019 by phil_sutters

[Skinnylinny]

That drill hall is absolutely stunning, James. It's been a real pleasure watching it come together, but to see it all in one piece... the only thing that could be better would be to see it in person!
 

[Edwardian]

Just now, Skinnylinny said:

That drill hall is absolutely stunning, James. It's been a real pleasure watching it come together, but to see it all in one piece... the only thing that could be better would be to see it in person!
 

 

Thanks, Linny.

 

Well, you wouldn't need to go nearly so far as Norfolk to see it, so let me know when you next come south of the Wall!

[RedGemAlchemist]

WOW. That drill hall... Wow. 

[Annie]

2 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

I know that I have drawn attention to this restoration company, to which I have no connection, in previous notes, but here is a project to restore a saloon, which may be of interest.   http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album/404587

I particularly like this shot - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/31305389/in/album/404587 - 1:1 scale kit for a door.

Absolutely fascinating Phil.  That NER saloon would be a very rare survivor indeed.

[runs as required]

In composition and in masterly detail the drill hall is the certainly the equal of Cheshire's Peckforton castle's fantasy - though thankfully not in scale!

 

There was a suggestion in an above post about  weathering.

I'd like to argue against weathering the Drill Hall. In 1903 it would have looked as pristine as Butterfield's Keble or Rugby school. 

Lord Erstwhile was clearly not a supporter of lefty Socialist William Morris.  Morris's SPAB advocated (and does still) a visual distinction between the ancient weathered original and NEW restoration that should be following the same craftsmanship methods and materials as the original. Erstwhile's was the prevailing C19 notion that we are so much better now in every way than our primitive ancestors

 

Dramatic impact ought to come from the contrast of the DH with the weathered and forgotten flint walled Keep on its motte in the right background - albeit related to the round tower at  the entrance to the drill hall.

dh

 

(Ah good you can still Edit)

I meant to say that recall of Peckforton was triggered by those stunning views of the Drill Hall you posted including from a much lower viewpoint. 

Had I the dexterity to have created that scratch building, I'd be using it in a lot of other one-off photo tableaux involving my military 'Divisions'  

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by runs as required
forgetfulness

[Edwardian]

Sorry to flog this one (but it's all I have to show for the last 5 months!). I had a chance to photograph the Drill Hall in daylight today, so please indulge me in two or three further shots ...

Edited February 4, 2019 by Edwardian

[Caley Jim]

I had to look twice at at that second last shot to make sure it wasn't a real building!!

 

Just looks better and better.  I think a virtual standing ovation is due to the Chairman for his skill.

 

Jim

[Charlie586]

That's a very impressive building. I really like the third outdoor picture with the darkened sky.

[Edwardian]

10 hours ago, Londontram said:

I've mounted a few cir 1860s coaches on the odd goods wagon chassis and in a few cases on brake van chassis with detail either added or cut back to suit and as you say the foot boards pretty much cover up a multitudes of sins

 The thing to check is that the w iron goes behind the solebar, a lot of coaches at that period had the w iron bolted to the outside of the solebar and I  now do most of the detail work on the Silhouette making the w irons in supplying with the wheels running on inside bearing.

 Here's an example

 

This superb in every respect and I am profoundly envious!

 

 

[Martin S-C]

I am so glad I joined RMWeb and found this thread and all you amazing modellers and lovely people. I am truely inspired to improve my modelling skills because of this incredible community.

*raises glass of port for a toast to the village council*

[nick_bastable]

4 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I am so glad I joined RMWeb and found this thread and all you amazing modellers and lovely people. I am truely inspired to improve my modelling skills because of this incredible community.

*raises glass of port for a toast to the village council*

Do you know the Bishop of Norwich?

 

Nick

[Buhar]

James, I don't tend to go for architectural models, to really grip me things usually have to have wheels.  That Drill Hall (along with the ruined building on Tony Wright's thread) is an exception and compares with the best I've seen on RMWeb.  

[Caley Jim]

9 minutes ago, Buhar said:

James, I don't tend to go for architectural models, to really grip me things usually have to have wheels.  That Drill Hall (along with the ruined building on Tony Wright's thread) is an exception and compares with the best I've seen on RMWeb.  

You might also like Tim Watson's building undergoing demolition on Copenhagen Fields.

 

Jim

[corneliuslundie]

Briefly again on saloons, I as at the Stafford show on Sunday and the very enthusiastic member manning the LNWR Society stand was telling me about the saloon they have just restored on an LNWR carriage chassis - not the original for the body but an identical design. He said that the standardisation was so thorough that when thy dropped the body onto the chassis the bolts lined up perfectly with the holes.

I am sure there must be photos of it somewhere in the ether.

jonathan