Castle Aching

[mvrnut]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

I believe in 1905 ordinary folk walked a lot further than people people today would think. If you were earning less than a £1 a week 1s 1d would be rather extravagant for one train journey when you could walk it.    

 

Don

Yes they did walk a lot further in 1905. My Great Grandfather used to walk roughly 10 to 11 miles from Shirrell Heath to Portsmouth to work as a dust collector for Portsmouth Corporation and back home again . Mind you he would cut across country but who would think in this day and age of walking that far to work. And that was after he had retired from the Royal Navy !

  Cheers,

    Chris

[rockershovel]

I’d always understood that the purpose of the bowler hat was to be resistant to damage when knocked off by tree branches while riding, and less likely to be so knocked off due to its lower profile and better fit. I hadn’t understood that it was intended to be a protective headgear in any sense. 

 

That said, early industrial protective headgear provided little real protection. The pressed-fibre miners hats used by the NCB until the 1960s were really only bumpcaps. The boiled leather Bullard hard hats which were the first real industrial “hard hats” in the 1930s were really only a revamped pickelhaube, without the crest. Even the aluminium hard hats I wore as a rig hand in the 1970s and 1980s don’t really provide a great deal of protection. 

 

 

[ChrisN]

Did they run at 1d per mile?  I have looked at two different fares from the December 1895, sorry make that three.

 

Pwlheli- Barmouth 31 3/4 miles   = 2s 7 1/2d (31 1/2d)  halfpenney not three farthings.

Paddington to Pwllheli  280 1/2 miles  = 22s 3d  (267d)

 

So far so good

 

Paddington to High Wycombe, no mileage = 2s 10d  (34d) (Not far off 34 miles I suppose.)

 

As near as makes no odds it was about 1d/mile for Gov class (3rd that is)

 

It is interesting to note that Third Class returns double the price of one single, Second Class returns have some money off, but First Class returns have the biggest discount.

[Edwardian]

Very little modelling time in the end this weekend.

 

These wagons will take some time, but quite relaxing once you've settled into it ....

 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Give a dog a chance - those are very short legs he's got.

What do you mean they're short? They reach the ground don't they?

 

I thank you.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, webbcompound said:

Although I enjoy tangenital tosh, and to avoid being accused of being the purveyor of further irrelevance, and in case anyone thinks my interest in pre-grouping is just academic, not practical, I have taken the step of beginning my own layout thread. It will no doubt pale in comparison to Edwardian's massively entertaining magnum opus, but at least it will be there. Connah's Quay is the name.

 

The name's Quay. Connah's Quay.

 

I. Fleming

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

17 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Malcolm

 

the ‘feral gamekeeper’ is Kaiser Wilhelm II. Both pictures show him visiting Sandringham in 1898, and I’m fairly sure he visited again in 1902.

 

I’m pretty sure the hat isn’t a bowler, not rounded enough.

 

kevin

 

Oh I knew that, it's a fairly common pic of old Kaiser Bill - the moustache was the giveaway. I was referring to the earlier pic of the young lady being helped to find a train by those three chaps. One of whom sported a bowler.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

12 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I call fake. Those jackboots are not being lifted up anywhere high enough.

 

Actually that image of a dachshund isn't a fake - it was film of Prince Schnitzel-Leghummpen-Hapsburg XXXVIX featured in the now rarely seen BBC documentary of 1967 titled Inbreeding in the Hapsburg Family 1173 - 1920. The clip is part of historic footage of the Prince reviewing the 15th South Bavarian Hundenpanzers of whom he was Colonel-in-Chief. His quite inadvertent resemblance to a dachshund caused the Hapsburg dynasty  to finally accept that many centuries of intermarriage between first cousins had created a problem. Efforts to prolong the dynasty also led to complaints from the RSPCA and the Dachshund Breeding Society. I am happy to report that Prince Schnitzel-Leghummpen-Hapsburg XXXVIX later found a role as Rin-Tin-TIn's sidekick in Hollywood.  But I digress.....                  

[Caley Jim]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm a bit puzzled - as far as I can make out the distance between the two stations was around four and a half miles - Massingham station being some way from Great Massingham; but that return fare would equate to 6.5 miles at 1 d/mile - or is the higher rate because the ticket is available by any train?

As Andy says in the post before this one, the ticket is a monthly one! Potentially 6 return journeys per week for 4 weeks which equates to just over a farthing per journey !

 

Jim 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Caley Jim

[Donw]

12 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

As Andy says in the post before this one, the ticket is a monthly one! Potentially 6 return journeys per week for 4 weeks which equates to just over a farthing per journey !

 

Jim 

 

Ah I misread it I thought it was a single journey out and then return within a month.  These were common, I am not sure when the day return came into use. Presumably if is was a season ticket one could go back and forth all day if there were enough trains.

 

Don

 

[St Enodoc]

28 minutes ago, Donw said:

 

Ah I misread it I thought it was a single journey out and then return within a month.  These were common, I am not sure when the day return came into use. Presumably if is was a season ticket one could go back and forth all day if there were enough trains.

 

Don

 

Don, I'm with you. I would expect it to say "Season" on it somewhere if it were a season ticket.

[ChrisN]

I think it is a plain return, but available for the return to be within one month.  Why?  It has been clipped so it cannot be used again.

Edited March 25, 2019 by ChrisN

[Edwardian]

Rail fares, complicated and difficult to understand?

 

plus ça change ...

[Northroader]

Day returns were usually called “cheap day returns” I.e. cheaper than a monthly return, which was valid for a return trip any day for a month.

[Regularity]

40 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I think it is a plain return, but available for the return to be within one month.  Why?It has been clipped so it cannot be used again.

If it is anything like discussions on this thread, it would be a season ticket, allowing for many returns...

[Hroth]

23 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Rail fares, complicated and difficult to understand?

 

plus ça change ...

Perhaps the WNR could adopt an enlightened and socially responsible fare structure?

 

 

What AM I saying? 

[Nearholmer]

We all know that fare structures can be baffling these days, and hark back to a golden age of comprehensibility, but that really only existed under nationalised BR, and even then it had fraying edges.

 

Pre-grouping was as bad as now in many respects, because companies did attempt to compete on price, as well as quality, where regulation allowed, and, just like 'railcards' now, there were all sorts of special rates negotiated by clubs, societies, churches etc, so that their members could travel at 'below book' prices, and the railways were themselves forever inventing marketing deals for anglers, cyclists (reduced or free travel for your bike), tourists who could be persuaded to make long, convoluted circular trips, package deals including a charabanc tour and a hotel, theatre arrangements etc etc.

 

The other issue was the degree to which "through booking" arrangements were or weren't effective, and there certainly wasn't a tightly enforced obligation for the booking clerk to offer the cheapest fare between two places.

 

I think that one reason that ticket-agents may have flourished in big towns is that they probably did provide unbiased advice on fares and routes, although one wonders whether even they were taking a percentage 'rake off', so were incentivised to offer expensive options.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Martin S-C]

9 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

Actually that image of a dachshund isn't a fake - it was film of Prince Schnitzel-Leghummpen-Hapsburg XXXVIX featured in the now rarely seen BBC documentary of 1967 titled Inbreeding in the Hapsburg Family 1173 - 1920. The clip is part of historic footage of the Prince reviewing the 15th South Bavarian Hundenpanzers of whom he was Colonel-in-Chief. His quite inadvertent resemblance to a dachshund caused the Hapsburg dynasty  to finally accept that many centuries of intermarriage between first cousins had created a problem. Efforts to prolong the dynasty also led to complaints from the RSPCA and the Dachshund Breeding Society. I am happy to report that Prince Schnitzel-Leghummpen-Hapsburg XXXVIX later found a role as Rin-Tin-TIn's sidekick in Hollywood.  But I digress.....                  

It is quite wonderful what you learn in pursuit of the hobby of railway modelling. I need to inspect my little plastic cats and dogs and cows and sheep more carefully in case I'm inadvertently placing a 1st class passenger in a field.

[Annie]

6 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

As Andy says in the post before this one, the ticket is a monthly one! Potentially 6 return journeys per week for 4 weeks which equates to just over a farthing per journey !

 

Jim 

That was certainly something I wasn't sure about with that ticket.  Was it a 'there and back again' just once ticket, or a 'there and back again' as many times as you like for a month ticket. If it was the second case it was an amazingly good deal.

[Nick Holliday]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

That was certainly something I wasn't sure about with that ticket.  Was it a 'there and back again' just once ticket, or a 'there and back again' as many times as you like for a month ticket. If it was the second case it was an amazingly good deal.

Definitely a straight forward return ticket, open for a month, so just two journeys for your thirteen pence.

Looking at a slightly later date, for a similar distance on the LBSCR in 1912, from Victoria to Gipsy Hill, the third class return was 1 shilling, a single 7d. First class was 1s 6d and 1s 0d respectivley, so, as pointed out earlier, first class passengers got bigger discounts, although on workmen's trains the single fare was reduced to 4d. What is interesting is that the period of validity varied, depending on the length of the journey.  To Gipsy Hill the ticket was valid for only two days, 8 days if you wanted to go to outer suburbs such as Purley, and 6 months everywhere else! A proper third class season ticket, allowing unlimited travel for a period would set you back 14s 6d for  month, £1 8s 6d for 2 months, £1 17s 6d for 3 months and £7 10s for the year. First class prices ranged from £1 2s 6d for one month to £11 4s for the year, so still better discounts for the toffs! 257 third class singles paid for the annual ticket, just 224 singles for a "gent"!

[ChrisN]

50 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

Definitely a straight forward return ticket, open for a month, so just two journeys for your thirteen pence.

Looking at a slightly later date, for a similar distance on the LBSCR in 1912, from Victoria to Gipsy Hill, the third class return was 1 shilling, a single 7d. First class was 1s 6d and 1s 0d respectivley, so, as pointed out earlier, first class passengers got bigger discounts, although on workmen's trains the single fare was reduced to 4d. What is interesting is that the period of validity varied, depending on the length of the journey.  To Gipsy Hill the ticket was valid for only two days, 8 days if you wanted to go to outer suburbs such as Purley, and 6 months everywhere else! A proper third class season ticket, allowing unlimited travel for a period would set you back 14s 6d for  month, £1 8s 6d for 2 months, £1 17s 6d for 3 months and £7 10s for the year. First class prices ranged from £1 2s 6d for one month to £11 4s for the year, so still better discounts for the toffs! 257 third class singles paid for the annual ticket, just 224 singles for a "gent"!

 

Is the bigger discount because there was more profit to cut into?  I assume so.  It is interesting that if as appears it was 1d per mile in 1895, and the LMS, I think, was still advertising 1d per mile what happened to the profits over the next thirty years.  Did they try to attract more passengers, did plate techtonics make all the journeys longer, or did they just put up the price of carrying coal, for those companies that had heavy freight traffic?

[wagonman]

2 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

so still better discounts for the toffs! 

 

Plus ça change...

[wagonman]

As 13d represented perhaps a quarter of his daily income, I doubt if any of the labouring classes took advantage of this train service when they could walk for free.

[Compound2632]

On 24/03/2019 at 14:32, Compound2632 said:

Well, I tried...

 

 

... I'm glad to find I was prematurely pessimistic. Monthly return trumps Kaiser-poodle.

[Annie]

My attempt at representing a W.N.R. engine for use on my huge rambling digital layout.  This was by no means a quick reskin of an unsuspecting 1860s engine I had in my digital trainset box.  There seemed to be countless small tasks and adjustments to take care of before I could call it good enough to take a snap of.  There's more I could do, but not today because I'm all tuckered out.