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1 hour ago, Skinnylinny said:

Thanks for the photos, that SECR van looks exquisite, and the C class as well. I missed out on one of those when the first batch was released, but I'll definitely be wanting one now. The Nettlebridge Valley Railway also looks rather nice, and I don't think I'd come across it before!

 

I missed out on the SECR C the first time round too - I had one on pre-order but cancelled as it was too expensive at the time. By the time I came to my senses, they'd sold out, so I got an SR black one instead. I was hoping to trade that in and get one of these new ones, but I've just looked at the pre-order price - it's £190+!!! I'm now trying to calm down my wallet and explain that I'm not going to submit it to that kind of shock...

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The Nettlebridge Valley is a lovely layout.  There is another section and I saw the whole thing at a Scaleforum many years ago,

Another superb model from the same group is Horselunges.  There is a short video of it at 5.15 on this link.

Rodney

 

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On 21/04/2019 at 19:40, Edwardian said:

 

Sssssh, don't tell anyone ....

 

It's only a sample, in primer, rough handled all day by the Great and the Good, and, while some rather more official photography was in progress, I took the opportunity ....  

 

 946610829_York1.JPG.26eca137ab568d8743d050c12a7b84eb.JPG

I heard about this the other day but was more than a trifle annoyed to hear that it won't be released in SECR livery. My understanding is that it is not actually an SECR vehicle but an SR one built to their diagram 1424 and based on earlier SECR vans. I cannot but help think this is a big dropped ball by Rails and Dapol.

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17 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I heard about this the other day but was more than a trifle annoyed to hear that it won't be released in SECR livery. My understanding is that it is not actually an SECR vehicle but an SR one built to their diagram 1424 and based on earlier SECR vans. I cannot but help think this is a big dropped ball by Rails and Dapol.

 

The Southern perpetuated the later Maunsell elliptical-roofed SECR design, I believe. This is a model of a genuine SECR vehicle but in SR condition (after 1936 on the basis of the livery choices). That's probably what is going to appeal to the greatest number of potential purchasers. I'm sure those behind the project thought long and hard about what they were doing. It's been hinted that an SECR condition version might appear in due course, flexibility being a touted virtue of the manufacturing process.

Edited by Compound2632
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35 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I heard about this the other day but was more than a trifle annoyed to hear that it won't be released in SECR livery. My understanding is that it is not actually an SECR vehicle but an SR one built to their diagram 1424 and based on earlier SECR vans. I cannot but help think this is a big dropped ball by Rails and Dapol.

 

No, as Stephen says, it is a SE&CR vehicle. It's a Wainwright design of 1904.  SR fitted freighter brakes c.1938 and the split spoke wheels. 

 

The beauty of 3D printing is the ability to alter the CAD and simply print a different version, so I doubt you'll need to remain annoyed for long. 

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More of the NVR ...

 

1500217370_DSCN9429-Small.JPG.d390f6c28ceb222b4ea61796b6866f6c.JPG

 

So many of the decisions echo what we have determined here.  Details of this freelance line remind me of the WNR as sketched out in these pages; e.g. wagons using the small lettering (here "N. V. R"), like the GWR used to.  At least WNR wagon livery is grey (!), though it might have been a mushroom brown, but the the fact that the Isle of Eldernell wagons were to be that colour! As with the coach livery, I suppose there are only so many options!

 

573021533_DSCN9438-Copy.JPG.c169254949ddb0ecd86d014a97a18ca3.JPG

 

Locomotives suitable for such a line, including 4-wheel tenders and an Ilfracombe Goods, and, like the WNR, sometimes with a nod to the local area (here a GWR lining style and a couple of ex-GW types).  It really feels like a West Country equivalent of the WNR. of course, complete and to a standard I cannot yet aspire to. 

 

194278089_DSCN9553-Small.JPG.5aa4143e7d9af04c76f78456d9331a25.JPG

 

The coach livery has proved a popular choice, and certianly not unique to the WNR.  NeilHB has something similar for Elsbridge, for instance.  WNR shades might be slightly different from NVR's, and has black beading and red brake ends, but there's not that much in it!.  I also hope that WNR carriage practice will prove distinctive and recognisable.  Still, it was an odd to sensation to see lined green locos with polished brass domes hauling green and cream coaches! 

 

1679123262_DSCN9441-Small.JPG.5b56433ff401845d4626cbd2068b9619.JPG

 

There's even an ex-GER G15 tram!

 

2069055911_DSCN9556-Small.JPG.f7ff89ff771a25fec98f50a9fe616cae.JPG

 

1561697602_DSCN9408-Small.JPG.cefceccd12b4d28bd04b8f782fc0eb14.JPG

 

As you can tell, I have really fallen for this layout in a big way. 

 

1308000654_DSCN9427-Small.JPG.fb1cb629eb6d650d83eee8f46bc24eda.JPG

 

One of the two locos from the colliery line (the other one is seen tn the video kindly posted by Rodney (for which many thanks) ...

 

368430751_DSCN9395-Small.JPG.dcc426b821e8248f977e51516b23b376.JPG

 

There's even some NE influence evident ....

 

1916911187_DSCN9470-Small.JPG.cb7fd5024ea723efd0923e3dbeb9c2cb.JPG

 

And some Midland origins ...

 

The majority of WNR tender locos are to have 4-wheel tenders (and one of the tanks, too!). 

 

1757640330_DSCN9425-Small.JPG.bcc13d2d72cb0a197da9b4f5ddc8a772.JPG

 

All the locos, I might add, are capable of the slowest of crawls.  They needed the occasional nudge, but in general the locos' performance was impressive.  The very discreet coupling system work well and there were no derailments. 

 

Finally, some ex-LNW influence ...

 

I'll have to check, but the lead vehicle looks like something of the Looe & Caradon - certainly seen somewhere - and the little coach with cream upper works (masked by the Mink) is one of those plastic HO Spanish 1830s coach kits (I know, I did a couple for Miss T's project).  Finally, it seems that the NVR, like the H&B, seems to have followed LCDR designs for its covered wagons.

 

1389750379_DSCN9455-Small.JPG.6b0bc62ed6da9aeef5592018e2ed21d8.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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Invited to accompany James to the York show, I’d pictured myself in role as a kind of ’spear carrying extra’ to CA’s Edwardian paying elegant social calls upon his favoured stands around the show.  During my time working in York, I remembered this as appropriately housed in the Assembly Rooms.

 

Reality proved very different. I had no idea how deeply embedded a lobbyist Edwardian is, networking on behalf of the specialist Pre-Grouping community.

First the military side nearly did for me;  James does everything at breathtaking (Falklands ?) “Yomping” pace. There was no riding the Classic Bus laid on linking to and from the Racecourse; we very nearly missed our designated return train to ‘Darly’  (1732h weekend First aboard a dismal Crosscountry DMU - with no sign whatsoever of the promised G&T).

 

At the show I was left entirely to my own devices wandering around, calling back on the top floor every half hour to find James still working away hard.
 

  • I discovered my 3 (now fifty+ year old) kids’ 0 level maths teacher doing a roaring business on his ContiKits stand - though he had to admit he still needed to keep teaching as his ‘day job’. I reminded him he was still to tell me when a s/h FS Crosti 2-6-0 might turn up for my ‘Continental’ layout running days.
     
  • I was entranced by Tony Wright in person setting up his umpteenth (well into the 500s he said) unstreamlined Coronation, demonstrating how to solder up a brass chassis and adjust it to run smoothly (this is apparently impossible using glue); also how to dive in ‘quick and hot’ to join white metal.
    When I confessed I had a fair few failures doing this; he guffawed and exclaimed “haven’t we all!”.
    At one point he sought our permission as his avid spectators to “be excused” - and leave his desk for a brief call of nature. 
     

I was able to join for lunch with James and a close collaborator on the SE van project where there was an interesting discussion about “realism” in model railways.

It sort of related to CA’s obsession with Pre Raphaelites - i.e. Realism isn’t really Real but is largely about perception and belief - much of this in model railway modelling to do with muted colouring and manipulated perspective composition. We afterwards went around several layouts testing these thoughts.
 

  • Afterwards I came across Paul Lunn patiently conducting a layout design clinic - with customers queuing up to shew their pencil diagrams on scraps of paper.
    I was hugely impressed by his skills - and returned just before closing to buy a signed copy of his book "Making Tracks" -  it contains much to ponder over for just a fiver.
    My dream project is for conceiving an 00 layout as a kind of flexible stage design having a capability to adapt through time (from say Pre G to BR blue type 24 within an afternoon) as well as also play host for my occasional H0 Continental "running days".   


Many thanks James for an unforgettable day out - with brief overview of your unexpectedly high intensity hobby role!

dh

 

Edited by runs as required
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Apropos Runs-as-Required's post, which I feel begs some explanation, suffice it to say that Sunday at the Show did not go as I had planned or anticipated; two of us were effectively claimed, in the nicest possible way, and shuttled around the Show on 'business'.  This meant I abandoned DH and was unable to RV with Martin S-C, for which I was very sorry.  I and my co-conspirator did have some enjoyable and interesting encounters, though it was my loss not to spend (more) time with DH or Martin; my profound apologies to both gentlemen. It also meant that I had seen almost nothing of the Show by 2pm.  I had not managed any shopping, either! 

 

As a consequence, I felt I had to go back yesterday, though it would have been more fun to see everything in company.  In particular, I wanted to revisit a couple of layouts, namely The Dépôts, Rosedale East, because I never tire of that and I had failed to get any decent pictures of that on Sunday, and to have another good look at Edford - The Nettlebridge Valley Railway.

 

845508958_DSCN9543-Small.JPG.8bbb7ffb9851f0527138d70d76bc3d92.JPG

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James, you misunderstand my post. I wanted to share with other CA fans my discovery that the affable ex military old buffer that is the North Norfolk's guiding hand has another side to him.

He is out there in the real hard contemporary world working hard for the pre-Grouping cause.

 

I too called on Rosedale and was charmed by Worsdell Forever saying he'd enjoyed our posts about our Brampton walk over the Cumbrian Fell uplands.

dh 

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6 minutes ago, runs as required said:

James, you misunderstand my post. I wanted to share with other CA fans my discovery that the affable ex military old buffer that is the North Norfolk's guiding hand has another side to him.

He is out there in the real hard contemporary world working hard for the pre-Grouping cause.

 

I too called on Rosedale and was charmed by Worsdell Forever saying he'd enjoyed our posts about our Brampton walk over the Cumbrian Fell uplands.

dh 

 

No, I don't think I misunderstood, your post was very kind, I, nevertheless, felt very rude as a result of my enforced inattention; whether you minded it or not!

 

It was a good day, and far better for your company. 

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I’ve acquired a fair bit of experience of visiting exhibitions with friends, and barely ever do we “do” the show together.

 

Usual approach is an initial recce together, then spend an hour or two on an “every man for himself” basis, before meeting for lunch/coffee and comparing notes, then another hour or so as singletons. Only at the end do we tend to go together, showing one another our favourite bits.

 

This seems to work, in that no two people have precisely the same interests, yet all benefit from the observations of the others. There are always things that I’ve missed on my own, and likewise things that I’ve spotted that nobody else has.

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Off piste, but i am reminded of the time our conference manager visited Dublin to arrange the next annual event with the venue and the local members. However, they were so hospitable that she had to return without telling them to get the job done.

Jonathan

PS Very many thanks for all the layout shots.

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12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

More of the NVR ...

 

 

 

The Nettlebridge Valley is extremely fertile territory for such schemes – even I have sketched out a few possibilities – but I rather think this version is a little bit too eclectic in his choice of motive power. My Cwmtowy Mineral Railway will have just a pair of Manning Wardle 'K' class tanks, just like its neighbour the Van Railway, though I do have the makings of a Millwall tank, and I do have rather a soft spot for those little 12in Neilson tanks...

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46 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

The Nettlebridge Valley is extremely fertile territory for such schemes – even I have sketched out a few possibilities – but I rather think this version is a little bit too eclectic in his choice of motive power. My Cwmtowy Mineral Railway will have just a pair of Manning Wardle 'K' class tanks, just like its neighbour the Van Railway, though I do have the makings of a Millwall tank, and I do have rather a soft spot for those little 12in Neilson tanks...

 

I suspect that the eclectic approach was too tempting.

 

I think it's easier for the WNR, which I suspect would have been a slightly larger concern.

 

Where I've got to is that there is variety on the WNR due to two factors.  First, there is a mixed bag of older stuff, 1860s-1870s left in service.  Then there is a later period, say turn of the Century, when a rash of second-hand purchases are made because the company is hit hard by over investment in the 1890s and the failure of Wolfringham to take off as a resort. 

 

To balance this, we have some standardisation in rolling stock from the early 1880s, as wagons and coaches start to be constructed in-house, and there is a definite evolution in style/design, based upon how other companies' stock evolved during the 1880-1900 period. 

 

So, rather than it all being Light Railway style hand-me-downs, there should be something of a house-style emerging at least in terms of rolling stock, leavened, as I say, by older stock and various second-hand acquisitions.

 

The locos and rolling stock should make sense for the type of line and it's location.  So, for instance, ex-Cornwall Minerals locos and a Fox Walker are representative of the Eastern & Midland etc, and were withdrawn in time to transfer to the WNR.  Moreover, they are appropriate for Norfolk, as they really were seen there.

 

No.1, the Neilson 0-4-2T is ideal for a line with GER support, as it is what happened in the case of the Colne Valley, a loco clearly derived from the GE's own versions. 

 

In other cases, we imagine what a concern of this type might adopt as its standard classes.  Whereas the Lynn & Fakenham went to Hudswell Clark for 4-4-0Ts and Beyer Peacock for 4-4-0s for its standard classes, we imagine that the WNR trod a similar path to the Furness and Cambrian, establishing some standard classes via Sharp Stewart products, though only a handful of each.

 

Adopting Cambrian nomenclature for ease of reference, Small Goods (0-6-0), Small Passenger (2-4-0) and Small Bogies (4-4-0).  We add to that the sort of Sharp 2-4-2T supplied both here and to the Netherlands (and in doing so we bear in mind that the 2-4-2T was a type seen on the CV&HR, so does have a GER/regional connection).

 

Once we have these in place, we can look to old survivors, one-offs and opportunist purchases. I have worried that there have been so many of these that it might be necessary to evolve a constituent company, that trod a similar, but parallel course.  Perhaps they were Beyer customers on the whole?

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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15 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I suspect that the eclectic approach was too tempting.

 

I think it's easier for the WNR, which I suspect would have been a slightly larger concern.

 

Where I've got to is that there is variety on the WNR due to two factors.  First, there is a mixed bag of older stuff, 1860s-1870s left in service.  Then there is a later period, say turn of the Century, when a rash of second-hand purchases are made because the company is hit hard by over investment in the 1890s and the failure of Wolfringham to take off as a resort. 

 

To balance this, we have some standardisation in rolling stock from the early 1880s, as wagons and coaches start to be constructed in-house, and there is a definite evolution in style/design, based upon how other companies' stock evolved during the 1880-1900 period. 

 

So, rather than it all being Light Railway style hand-me-downs, there should be something of a house-style emerging at least in terms of rolling stock, leavened, as I say, by older stock and various second-hand acquisitions.

 

The locos and rolling stock should make sense for the type of line and it's location.  So, for instance, ex-Cornwall Minerals locos and a Fox Walker are representative of the Eastern & Midland etc, and were withdrawn in time to transfer to the WNR.  Moreover, they are appropriate for Norfolk, as they really were seen there.

 

No.1, the Neilson 0-4-2T is ideal for a line with GER support, as it is what happened in the case of the Colne Valley, a loco clearly derived from the GE's own versions. 

 

In other cases, we imagine what a concern of this type might adopt as its standard classes.  Whereas the Lynn & Fakenham went to Hudswell Clark for 4-4-0Ts and Beyer Peacock for 4-4-0s for its standard classes, we imagine that the WNR trod a similar path to the Furness and Cambrian, establishing some standard classes via Sharp Stewart products, though only a handful of each.

 

Adopting Cambrian nomenclature for ease of reference, Small Goods (0-6-0), Small Passenger (2-4-0) and Small Bogies (4-4-0).  We add to that the sort of Sharp 2-4-2T supplied both here and to the Netherlands (and in doing so we bear in mind that the 2-4-2T was a type seen on the CV&HR, so does have a GER/regional connection).

 

Once we have these in place, we can look to old survivors, one-offs and opportunist purchases. I have worried that there have been so many of these that it might be necessary to evolve a constituent company, that trod a similar, but parallel course.  Perhaps they were Beyer customers on the whole?

 

 

 

 

My comments were not aimed at the WNR, James. You have a well argued rationale given the assumed size of the company. But a GE tram engine in darkest Somerset? That's definitely pushing it a bit too far for me.

 

 

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Just now, wagonman said:

 

My comments were not aimed at the WNR, James. You have a well argued rationale given the assumed size of the company. But a GE tram engine in darkest Somerset? That's definitely pushing it a bit too far for me.

 

 

 

No, I fully realised that, and thank you.

 

I was musing from the point of view of my own temptations. The WNR is just big enough to have some standardised purchasing; it would not be realistic to have 20-30 locos and every one different!  

 

I'm aiming for 50% of the notional roster to be made up from 4 standard Sharp classes.  I may not make more than one of each!

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The WNR/CA, has long been a communal effort in its conception from the first.

 

Annie, having discovered the design of several WNR saloons, has now been researching the loco fleet and has discovered a fourth fifth standard Sharp Stewart Class; 0-6-2T

 

As a result, 50% of the notional fleet will comprise these four five Sharp types:  2-4-0, 0-6-0, 4-4-0, 2-4-2T, 0-6-2T.  These can exhibit detail differences if I ever do more than one class member, but the "class" sizes will be small, 2-3 locomotives each. 

 

The presence of two of the Beyer Peacocks, the Adamesque/L&F-like 4-4-0 and the Class 101-like 0-6-0, is now explained by the temporary inability of Sharps to accommodate WNR due to a full order book, leading the Directors to look elsewhere.  

 

The mainline passenger and goods types are, thus, all drawn from these Sharp classes and the two Beyer substitutes, plus the Beyer IG.  They are supplemented by three individual 'intermediate' or mixed traffic locos; the 4-4-0 Neilson we have seen, the 2-4-0 ex-CMR rebuild we have talked about, and a late decision in the form of a 2-4-0 Crewe Type. 

 

There remain half a dozen tanks for various branch duties, each different, and the works shunter. 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
Because I can't count. Thank you for not noticing!
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7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I’ve acquired a fair bit of experience of visiting exhibitions with friends, and barely ever do we “do” the show together.

 

Usual approach is an initial recce together, then spend an hour or two on an “every man for himself” basis, before meeting for lunch/coffee and comparing notes, then another hour or so as singletons. Only at the end do we tend to go together, showing one another our favourite bits.

 

This seems to work, in that no two people have precisely the same interests, yet all benefit from the observations of the others. There are always things that I’ve missed on my own, and likewise things that I’ve spotted that nobody else has.

This is what I and my friend Mike did. I too find that going around an exhibition with a friend inevitably means you spend not long enough looking at the layouts you have an interest in and too long looking at those you don't!

It was a great shame we missed each other, James and R-as-R but I am sure we'll have the chance to natter another time. I agree that the NVR was gorgeous but for superb scenery I found myself nailed to Black Lion crossing which I completely missed at Warley so was determined to enjoy this time.

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