Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Perhaps we could set up an RMweb group to build a modular empire based on the WNR.

 

That's the spirit, capital idea!

[Northroader]

Bagsy me the Mongolian branch module.

[Compound2632]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Birmingham - Achingham through carriage, at the Birmingham end of its circuit. Plus of course North Warwickshire / Cannock Chase coal consigned to West Norfolk factors and merchants.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Compound2632
No t in Achingham

[wagonman]

I'm particularly taken by the Fakeney branch being as how it's just over a mile down the road from here (Flay next the Sea)... The Lynn & Fakenham planned a branch to there that would have included a line across the salt marsh to a new jetty out in "the Pit", the deep bit in the middle of the harbour that doesn't dry out at low tide. Nothing like Geoff Kent's version I assume.

 

I hadn't realised the extent to which the WNR had done a Topsy on us all. Tender engines all the way!

 

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I strongly suspect that all this lebensraum stuff is a counter to the logical possibility that the pre-Greater-WNR might plausibly have got by with a few tank engines, which it surely can't now. 

 

Be that as it may, or may not, I'm another fan of the Fakeney Branch, provided that it is actually more like Morston Creek than Blakeney. When I first went to Morston Creek, there was an old WNR carriage (well, a carriage, painted green) inhabited as a cottage, might still be, I haven't checked in recent years, and it would be good to create a layout that includes it, perhaps as a railway-owned camping coach, in earlier days.

 

As to a modular empire, I have to confess that even I'm getting tempted to build a small tentacle (no sniggering, please) in 4mm scale, despite having sworn-off such things as my eyesight has gone from bad to worse.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Nearholmer

[wagonman]

15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, I strongly suspect that all this lebensraum stuff is a counter to the logical possibility that the pre-Greater-WNR might plausibly have got by with a few tank engines, which it surely can't now. 

 

Be that as it may, or may not, I'm another fan of the Fakeney Branch, provided that it is actually more like Morston Creek than Blakeney. When I first went to Morston Creek, there was an old WNR carriage (well, a carriage, painted green) inhabited as a cottage, might still be, I haven't checked in recent years, and it would be good to create a layout that includes it, perhaps as a railway-owned camping coach, in earlier days.

 

 

It used to be the abode of an eccentric bird watcher (is that a tautology?) by the name of Tommy, now long gone, as I suspect the carriage probably is though I've not been down there since I gave up sailing some years back. The Old Man of the Sea grew fed up being the old man in the sea!

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Ah, yes, I met him, rather accidentally. 

 

I thought at first that the carriage was abandoned, as in no longer inhabited, and started having a closer look at it. I was looking at one almost entirely non-transparent window when I realised that the face looking back wasn't my reflection, but a much older chap on the other side. He was very good about me invading his property and privacy, but wasn't able to tell me much about the origin of the coach.

[St Enodoc]

16 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I was surprised, too. The damn thing's got a life of its own. 

 

I think the only sane way to tackle this is to survey the existing terrain and then insert a bit more of the same.  Norfolk just has to be bigger, that was always the intention, because there has to be room and traffic for another railway and that means more places, as fictitious as the Line.  These have to be accommodated without erasing existing geography.

 

So, no, no sudden changes in topography - in one sense the aim of the exercise is to avoid that.

 

Some areas will be a new blob of land, rather than a streak, e.g. the area known as the Achings, where a cluster of new places exist and a shallow valley and stream runs through them. 

 

Most new areas need be no more than the margins of the line, wide enough, where necessary, to absorb a new town or village.  

You are following in the footsteps of some giants of the hobby, including P D Hancock (who added a large lump to East Lothian and called it Craigshire) and Ken Northwood (who stretched north west Devon in a way that neither God nor Slartibartfast had envisaged).

Edited April 26, 2019 by St Enodoc
Speling

[Edwardian]

Stripping out the large heavy tanks, which cannot really have entered service until 1905-6, and concentrating on the Sharp classes, I have come up with the following provisional revised stock list:

 

Locomotives of the West Norfolk Railway - In service in 1905 (withdrawn locomotives in italics) - Listed by date entering service

                                                                                                                                                    Withdrawn

1856:    2-2-2 E B Wilson of 1854, WNR No. 1                                                                           1877

1856:    2-4-0 E B Wilson of 1854, WNR No. 2                                                                           1877

1856      0-6-0 E B Wilson of 1854, WNR No. 3                                                                          1872

1856:    2-4-0WT E B Wilson of 1851,WNR No. 4                                                                       1878

1857:    0-6-0WT E B Wilson of 1850, WNR No. 5                                                                      1875

1857:    0-4-0ST Neilson & Co of 1856, WNR No. 6                                                                   1878

1857:    2-2-2WT W Fairbairn & Sons of 1850, No. 7                                                                1867

1859:    0-4-2 Todd, Kitson & Laird of 1838, WNR No. 8 - 5'                                                    1874  - stationary engine at Aching Constable - placed in working order and sold to the Norfolk Minerals Railway in 1895

1859:    0-4-2ST Sharp Stewart of 1859, WNR No. 9                                                                 1899  -  sold to the Norfolk Minerals Railway in 1899

1861     0-6-0 Thwaites & Carbutt of 1861, WNR No. 10  - 4’6”                                                1901  - leased to the Norfolk Minerals Railway in 1889, sold to the NMR in 1899              

1861:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1861, WNR No. 11 - 4’6”  - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1                                                                        

1861:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1861, WNR No. 12  - 4’6”  - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1                                                                

1862:  2-2-2T Neilson & Co of 1862, WNR No. 13 - 5’ - standard gauge version of loco supplied to the Dublin & Drogheda Ry

1863:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1863, WNR No. 14 - 4’6”  - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1863:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1863, WNR No.  15 - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1864:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1864, WNR No.  16 – 5’6"  - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1864:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1864, WNR No.  17 – 5’6"    - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1867:  4-4-0, Neilson & Co of 1866, WNR No. 7 - 4’6½” - Smaller version of Cowan's GNoSR K Class

1872:  0-6-0T Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No. 3 - as also supplied to Furness and Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railways

1872:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No.  18 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1872:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No.  19 – 5’6 "  - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1874:  0-6-0 Beyer Peacock of 1874, WNR No. 20 – 4’9”  - Ilfracombe Goods type

1875:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1874, WNR No. 4 - 4’6”- same type as Furness D1; ordered by FR, not purchased, went to WNR 

1877:  0-4-2T, Neilson & Co/SW Johnson of 1877, WNR No. 1 - same as CV&HR GER T7 derivative

1877:  0-6-0ST Fox Walker of 1877, WNR No. 2 - same as supplied to Great Yarmouth & Stalham Lt Ry

1878:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1878, WNR No. 5 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1878:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1878, WNR No. 6 – 5’6” - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1878:  0-4-0ST Beyer Peacock of 1878, WNR No. 21 - similar BP's own Gorton works shunter

1880:  0-6-0 Beyer Peacock of 1880, WNR No. 22 – 5’ - standard BP similar to McDonnell 101 Class

1880:  4-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1880, WNR No. 23 - 5’ 6 ½”  - same type as Cambrian SBC and Furness K1

1883:  2-4-0 Crewe Type of 1857, ex Lancaster & Carlisle, WNR No. 24 – 5’1” - 3 sold by LNWR, the other 2 went to the E&MR

1883:  4-4-0 Beyer Peacock of 1883, WNR No. 25 – 5’7” - similar to LSW Adams 380 Class 'Steamroller'

1887:  4-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1887, WNR No. 26 - 5’ 6 ½” - same type as Cambrian SBC and Furness K1

1895:  2-4-0 Sharp Stewart/Melton Constable of 1874, ExCMR-E&MR, WNR No. 8 – 4’7” - Purchased from M&GN

1899:  0-6-0T Sharp Stewart of 1874, ExCMR-E&MR, WNR No. 9 - Purchased from M&GN

1901:  0-6-0T Brighton Works/W Stroudley A1 of 1874 (No. 65), WNR No. 10 - Purchased from LB&SC

 

Locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway & West Norfolk Railway Joint Committee - In service in 1905

 

1884:  0-4-0 Tram Kitson & Co of 1878, GER No.230

1884:  0-4-0 G15 Class Tram Stratford Works/T W Worsdell, GER No.

1884:  0-4-0 G15 Class Tram Stratford Works/T W Worsdell, GER No.

1901:  2-4-2T Hunslet Engine Co of 1900, WNR No. 27

1901:  2-4-2T Hunslet Engine Co of 1900, WNR No. 28

 

Locomotives working through to the West Norfolk Railway circa 1905

 

GER 2-4-0 No.1 Class

GER 2-4-0 T26 Class

GER 0-6-0 Y14 Class (dual fitted)

M&GN 4-4-0 Class A (Beyer Peacock)

M&GN 4-4-0 Class C (MR-Johnson)

MR 2-4-0 (Johnson)

GNR 4-2-2 (Stirling Single)

 

Locomotives of the Norfolk Minerals Railway circa 1905

 

0-4-2 Todd, Kitson & Laird of 1838 - 5' 

0-6-0 Hackworth of c.1845 - firebox/single tender conversion                                                 

0-4-2ST Sharp Stewart of 1859                                                                 

0-6-0 Thwaites & Carbutt of 1861 - 4’6”         

0-6-0  Stephenson Long Boiler

 

Locomotives of the Aching Estate

 

0-4-0ST Peckett of 1893                                                

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Edwardian
Corrections & Additions

[Annie]

Wow!  That is quite some list James.  I assume that you do not intend to build all those.

 

1856     0-6-0 E B Wilson of 1855, WNR No. 4                                                                           Withdrawn 1878

 

That might have ended up on the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling Railway since they have a habit of collecting elderly engines.

[Edwardian]

10 minutes ago, Annie said:

Wow!  That is quite some list James.  I assume that you do not intend to build all those.

 

1856     0-6-0 E B Wilson of 1855, WNR No. 4                                                                           Withdrawn 1878

 

That might have ended up on the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling Railway since they have a habit of collecting elderly engines.

 

It's provisional.  The early (withdrawn) locos were quickly chosen largely to provide place-holders for my original 10-loco roster (which had to represent the re-use of numbers at least to some extent).  The choice warrants mote care than I gave it and I realise that I should include the early locos that you have produced.   

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

It's provisional.  The early (withdrawn) locos were quickly chosen largely to provide place-holders for my original 10-loco roster (which had to represent the re-use of numbers at least to some extent).  The choice warrants mote care than I gave it and I realise that I should include the early locos that you have produced.   

 

What I mean to say, Annie, is that there is plenty of scope to adjust, add or alter to synch with the virtual arm of the Achingverse, so , please, feel free to feed-in.

 

 

[Annie]

It will just be the E.B. Wilson 0-6-0 well tank that needs to be taken into account James since I don't really have anything else suitable.  Well except for an old monster of an E.B. Wilson 2-4-0 tender engine with a six wheel tender, but that might be too heavy for the W.N.R.

 

I will investigate..........

[Annie]

E.B.Wilson 2-4-0.  Might have possibilities after all if I find it a 4 wheel tender.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Norfolk is not a county that I know at all well.

 

Having got "into" this thread in the last few days, I started looking at the map a bit yesterday. For me, the stand-out location for a northern terminus is Brancaster. Only a small village in reality (and that increased by a lot of holiday homes), it nevertheless has Roman origins and could have developed into a much larger settlement with harbour.

 

I like the idea of a station in the centre of the town with a goods branch continuing on to the harbour past The Saltings.

[Edwardian]

38 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Norfolk is not a county that I know at all well.

 

Having got "into" this thread in the last few days, I started looking at the map a bit yesterday. For me, the stand-out location for a northern terminus is Brancaster. Only a small village in reality (and that increased by a lot of holiday homes), it nevertheless has Roman origins and could have developed into a much larger settlement with harbour.

 

I like the idea of a station in the centre of the town with a goods branch continuing on to the harbour past The Saltings.

 

Good suggestion.  Brancaster has some lovely building to model, too!

 

I like the idea of the goods branch to harbour. I like the idea of a goods line threading through lanes and between buildings such as these ...

 

 

Very much on the same page as you and others who have made similar suggestions.

 

That was always the idea with the Birchoverhams - there should be a line, which I have omitted, to Birchoverham Staithe (a mirror Burnham Overy Staithe, of course), feeding the now largely silted up harbour there, now (1905) used only by small coastal sailing vessels. 

 

The major resort of Birchoverham next the Sea,  which is probably not unlike Cromer in resort status and which accounts for much through traffic to the WNR, developed later, so the original line to the coast at this point was to Birchoverham Staithe, built before it's decay as a port caught up with it.

 

Inspiration for Birchoverham Staithe .... 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

43 minutes ago, Annie said:

E.B.Wilson 2-4-0.  Might have possibilities after all if I find it a 4 wheel tender.

 

 

Yes, perfect with a 4-wheel tender.  And I must include the 0-6-0WT.

 

IIRC, E B Wilson ceased production in 1858, so they are just in time for the Line's original locos. 

[NeilHB]

The harbour branch at a Birchoverham Staithe would make a lovely model - entering the scene between the buildings (those along the Choseley Road photo would be ideal). It would be a restrictive site though given how small the staithe at Burnham Overy Staithe is in real life. Probably gives it scope as a suitable prototype for a microlayout.

 

Morston Quay (though with a different name in the Aching-verse obviously) would also be suitable, given it’s that bit bigger it would enable slightly larger  ships to berth as well? Plus you’d have the backdrop of the lovely houses along the quayside.

[Annie]

Excellent James.  I'll dig it out of my digital trainset box.  I've had it working over on the advanced steam controls testbed  Minehead branch where it's been doing good work so I'll sort it out for running on Norfolk and get back to you with some snaps once I'm done.

Several mid century Scottish lines purchased E.B.Wilson's engines which is how I came to have this one since it was originally commissioned for a huge mid-19th century project based on Edinburgh.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

Excellent James.  I'll dig it out of my digital trainset box.  I've had it working over on the advanced steam controls testbed  Minehead branch where it's been doing good work so I'll sort it out for running on Norfolk and get back to you with some snaps once I'm done.

Several mid century Scottish lines purchased E.B.Wilson's engines which is how I came to have this one since it was originally commissioned for a huge mid-19th century project based on Edinburgh.

 

Annie, I don't suppose you have dates for either of the E B Wilsons? 

[Annie]

Paul of Paulz Trainz is a bit vague about the build dates for his mid-19th century engines.  For the well tank he says 'about 1850', but then says 1847 and 1851 elsewhere.  For the 2-4-0 he also says 'about 1850' for the build date, but apparently as modelled they are in 1860s condition.

[Martin S-C]

13 hours ago, wagonman said:

I hadn't realised the extent to which the WNR had done a Topsy on us all. Tender engines all the way!

Indeed. It has become unstoppable, it spreads its tendrils everywhere like the Martian Red Green Weed. Resistance is futile.

[Edwardian]

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

Paul of Paulz Trainz is a bit vague about the build dates for his mid-19th century engines.  For the well tank he says 'about 1850', but then says 1847 and 1851 elsewhere.  For the 2-4-0 he also says 'about 1850' for the build date, but apparently as modelled they are in 1860s condition.

 

That'll do as a guide, I would think, thanks

[Edwardian]

15 minutes ago, Annie said:

Paul of Paulz Trainz is a bit vague about the build dates for his mid-19th century engines.  For the well tank he says 'about 1850', but then says 1847 and 1851 elsewhere.  For the 2-4-0 he also says 'about 1850' for the build date, but apparently as modelled they are in 1860s condition.

 

That'll do as a guide, I would think, thanks

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Good suggestion.  Brancaster has some lovely building to model, too!

 

I like the idea of the goods branch to harbour. I like the idea of a goods line threading through lanes and between buildings such as these ...

 

 

Very much on the same page as you and others who have made similar suggestions.

 

That was always the idea with the Birchoverhams - there should be a line, which I have omitted, to Birchoverham Staithe (a mirror Burnham Overy Staithe, of course), feeding the now largely silted up harbour there, now (1905) used only by small coastal sailing vessels. 

 

The major resort of Birchoverham next the Sea,  which is probably not unlike Cromer in resort status and which accounts for much through traffic to the WNR, developed later, so the original line to the coast at this point was to Birchoverham Staithe, built before it's decay as a port caught up with it.

 

Inspiration for Birchoverham Staithe .... 

 

 

 

 

 

Some really lovely buildings there. I can see why it has become such a sought-after area. SWMBO has a friend with a house on the North Norfolk coast. About time we visited!