RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 07/03/2019 at 08:24, drmditch said: Re: Company structures and family membership. I keep meaning to explore this more. Clearly the MSLR/GCR had several prominent families, and nepotism (and 'filism' (?) as in giving your son a job) clearly held sway. I think that the role and influence of the Directors at all levels of railway operations, especially in the NER, would make an interesting study. Perhaps Mr Edwardian should emulate this? Does the WNR board include other Edwardians? The Wikipedia entry on Stanley Baldwin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Baldwin states: Baldwin proved to be adept as a businessman, and acquired a reputation as a modernising industrialist. He inherited .... a directorship of the Great Western Railway on the death of his father in 1908. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: A huge proportion of dystopia-cracks about various places, funny and true as they are, are born of something very close to snobbery - good old Betjeman is highly suspect on that score, Slough and a few other poems, for instance. I was going to mention Betjeman (and Slough) apropos a recent post, perhaps its a good thing I didn't! However, I think we've got to cut him some slack as he was sound on railways... I must say I liked the posters; Going by personal experience, Southport is spot-on so I've no complaints about the others. Tha the Wail-Online didn't like them and a kitsch illustrator felt the need to produce something truely awful in response shows that they're upsetting the right sort of people. At least Dystopia-On-Sea didn't portray as completely an inaccurate image as the LNER did. The railways promoted lots of jolly images of the town (or at least the beach!) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=redcar+railway+poster&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij7KT2uJ3jAhUOZcAKHYTQBHAQ_AUIECgB&biw=1078&bih=603#imgrc=_ Edited July 5, 2019 by Hroth extra fun 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Slough isn’t simple, though, is it? There is a whiff of middle-class looking-down, but it’s also a lament about the dehumanising nature of modern life. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Slough isn’t simple, though, is it? There is a whiff of middle-class looking-down, but it’s also a lament about the dehumanising nature of modern life. Possibly it's a Middle Class on Middle Class poem. The best (therefore, worst) example of a bogus Tudor bar I've ever seen is in London's Clubland, in the basement of the east India Club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) They did make an utter Horlicks of Slough. p.s. Bogus Tudor Bars = Bulleid Tavern Cars. Edited July 5, 2019 by Northroader 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Edwardian said: Possibly it's a Middle Class on Middle Class poem. The best (therefore, worst) example of a bogus Tudor bar I've ever seen is in London's Clubland, in the basement of the east India Club. Having never seen a genuine Tudor bar, I'll defer to your experience! Actually, two of the most interesting examples of kitsch fake Tudor hotels that I have come across are the Lake House and the Smokehouse, both in Cameron Highlands, Malaysia. https://lakehouse-cameron.com/ http://www.thesmokehouse.com.my/ch.htm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Having never seen a genuine Tudor bar, I'll defer to your experience! You have now. One of the best bolt holes in London, in my experience. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: You have now. One of the best bolt holes in London, in my experience. Ah complete with genuine Tudor wall lamps, chandeliers and ashtrays I see... Seriously, that does look rather cosy. Where is it please? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Is it the Coal Hole? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 4 July 2019 at 10:03, Nearholmer said: Ireland: chock full of places that were given English names by phonetic equivalent of the original name, which have then been translated back slightly differently, then re-phoneticised again later. This reminds me of a long ago Brendan Behan joke about the Dublin St sign reading Gas Street with a warning below 'cul de sac' - to which kids of his generation used to comment " is'nt the Gaelic a wonderful language". 2 Anyone able to offer the original Norman French origin of Hetton le Hole, birthplace of Mungo, our cat ? dh 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, runs as required said: Anyone able to offer the original Norman French origin of Hetton le Hole, birthplace of Mungo, our cat ? dh Well according to the venerable St Wikipedia: "The name of Hetton-le-Hole derives from two Anglo-Saxon words which were spelt together "Heppedune", meaning Bramble Hill. The name was adopted by a local landowning family, the le Hepdons, who owned part of the Manor. The ancient manor, which was bounded by that of Elemore, was divided into two parts known as Hetton-on-the-Hill and Hetton-in-the-Hole. The latter, a more sheltered vicinity, was where the village arose. Records exist of the many holders of the manor back to the 14th century. William de Hepdon held half the Manor by deed in 1363; and in 1380, William de Dalden held the other half. Even earlier charters go back to 1187 and mention the early village of Heppedune, its people, houses, crofts, oxgangs and strips of land for the villagers in the three great fields around the settlement. In 1187 Bertram de Heppedune held the manor for the King; other de Hepdons were his descendants." 1 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Ah complete with genuine Tudor wall lamps, chandeliers and ashtrays I see... You never said "unchanged since Tudor times"! 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Seriously, that does look rather cosy. Where is it please? 59 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Is it the Coal Hole? Mitre, Ely Place. Twas until relatively recently in the jurisdiction of the Diocese of Ely, so folk could drink after hours there and the City Police had to just stand by, fingering their truncheons and grinding their teeth in impotent rage and frustration. Alas, a policeman's lot is not a happy one. One of those London peculiarities, like the Savoy, that Wowsers in public service cannot tolerate and swept away. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 A couple of photos of the 'real' Fakeney... 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The Coal Hole, off the Strand is very similar to The Mitre in many ways, but is now a sort of “tripadvisor destination”, which has rather changed its character. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: Twas until relatively recently in the jurisdiction of the Diocese of Ely, so folk could drink after hours there and the City Police had to just stand by, fingering their truncheons and grinding their teeth in impotent rage and frustration. So long as you are quite sure it was a truncheon in their pocket and they weren't just ple... Ahem... 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: Alas, a policeman's lot is not a happy one. Every night in the cold and dark 'e's out (dark... No, another 'Ahem' needed here...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, sem34090 said: Every night in the cold and dark 'e's out (dark... No, another 'Ahem' needed here...) Ah, the superb Kit and the Widow. Very funny, but certainly not pre-Watershed for this topic. However, one (underground) railway ditty would be permissible. 1 hour ago, wagonman said: A couple of photos of the 'real' Fakeney... Yes, that's the badger! I mixed up my ... Next the Sea with my Cley/Blakeney/Fakeney folders! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: Ah, the superb Kit and the Widow. Bearing an appeal almost, in some ways, akin to the wonderful Messrs Flanders and Swann, though I admit I am very much less familiar with the duo I quoted above. Obviously they are rather more satirical than F&S generally were. 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: Very funny, but certainly not pre-Watershed for this topic. Erm, quite... Yes... 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: However, one (underground) railway ditty would be permissible. Oh? I once again cite my general ignorance of their work... The first thought being the "marching song of the Underground resistance movement...". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) There was a lot of places in London to avoid the licensing hours. I remember going to see Ray at Dobells. He said late lunch let's go for a drink and we went off to a nearby Drinking Club. Not Tudor style by the same sort of basement position. I probably had to be signed in as a guest. I think as a guest you couldn't buy drinks but the was no bar on handing the money to your member friend to buy them. My Grandfather started work as a messenger boy at the Old Baily. Reporters would write out their reports and a messenger boy would run back to Fleet Street to catch the afternoon editions. He would also be asked sometimes to go and collect a lunch for the Judge which would always include a suitable liquid refreshment. Not quite Edwardians probably just prior or at the start of WW1. He said those connected with the court did like a drink or two. Don edit for a mistype Edited July 5, 2019 by Donw 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Thirty five years in the future, I know, but worrying nevertheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 'The eagle has landed' is what is coming to mind here... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Briefly coming back to the dystopia on sea / Redcar topic, is it not also referencing the well known fact that Ridley Scott's blade runner, one of the most influential dystopian films, was directly inspired in terms of its visual imagery by his experience of Teesside and redcar in particular. Having said that, I spent a summer whilst at university staying in redcar, travelling down to hull (rival dystopia on sea contender) to clean up flood damage each day from the big floods (2007?). I remember going down the town centre very early on a Saturday morning and there was a touch of sea fog, every other person I met in the mists was shambling, grey faced and at least 6" shorter than me (I'm only 6'). I was struck by how post apocalyptic it felt. I'm sure it got better later on in the day when more normal folk came out, but it certainly seemed pretty dystopian, like something out of the road. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, sem34090 said: Bearing an appeal almost, in some ways, akin to the wonderful Messrs Flanders and Swann, though I admit I am very much less familiar with the duo I quoted above. Obviously they are rather more satirical than F&S generally were. IIRC Flanders and Swann made some remark about the job of satire being to strip away the cosy veneer of comforting half-truths and that their job was to put it back! 1 hour ago, sem34090 said: Erm, quite... Yes... Oh? I once again cite my general ignorance of their work... The first thought being the "marching song of the Underground resistance movement...". IIRC that incomparable film, A Fish called Wanda, features the line that the Kevin Klein thought the London Underground was a resistance movement. But, I was referring to ... 47 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Thirty five years in the future, I know, but worrying nevertheless. Martin Borman's post war career as an author under a rathe unimaginatively obvious nom de plume? 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, brack said: Briefly coming back to the dystopia on sea / Redcar topic, is it not also referencing the well known fact that Ridley Scott's blade runner, one of the most influential dystopian films, was directly inspired in terms of its visual imagery by his experience of Teesside and redcar in particular. As it was, IIRC, constantly dark and raining in that film, I had always assumed that Ridley Scott was referencing Manchester. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted July 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Edwardian said: IIRC that incomparable film, A Fish called Wanda, features the line that the Kevin Klein thought the London Underground was a resistance movement. The even better line coming from Lady Hayden-Guest: “I know. I checked!” Edited July 5, 2019 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: IIRC Flanders and Swann made some remark about the job of satire being to strip away the cosy veneer of comforting half-truths and that their job was to put it back! They did indeed! Besides sneering remarks about Battersea, which aren't really political, the only overtly political comments I can think of are in Twenty Tons of TNT, Misalliance and a comment about Mr Flanders' Local council being "Strictly non-political - they're all conservative!". I know there are others, but I can't think of them at the moment. 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: IIRC that incomparable film, A Fish called Wanda, features the line that the Kevin Klein thought the London Underground was a resistance movement. Still need to watch that! 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: But, I was referring to ... I shall have to look when I get home as GWR WIFI doesn't like videos... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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