Bill_J Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 20 hours ago, Hroth said: A suitable figure, on a piece of wire long enough to position him at least 30 scale feet from the loco, clipped to the buffers. Could be fun at express speed..... Especially if you could make his legs move.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2019 22 hours ago, Hroth said: A suitable figure, on a piece of wire long enough to position him at least 30 scale feet from the loco, clipped to the buffers. Could be fun at express speed..... I now have an image of a figure with a flag scuttling about like the chase scenes in Benny Hill programmes, seemingly chased by a loco. You would have to add the music. Don 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted August 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Bill_J said: Especially if you could make his legs move.... Somebody on NGRM did just that with a figure representing a man opening and closing a factory siding gate. the legs were free to move and were attached by strips of something flexible to the figure's body with everything hidden by his overcoat. The figure was attached to the gate and the gate opened via slow moving servo motor. The figure's feet were finely adjusted so that they dragged on the road surface and would move back, then be flicked forward again once the figure's feet lost contact with the road. I think a maddening amount of adjustment was involved, but it did create a passable illusion. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Yesterday, I bunked off work for a couple of hours to take the children to see the Museum of Richmondshire Life in Richmond. Here I found several railway-related items, including this 3 1/2 " gauge live steam T Class, work of the late R G Johnson. I had been told to expect a model of the station, and was not disappointed. Parishioners may recall that I tend to wax lyrical about Richmond station and enjoy the fact that it's nowadays the local flicks. Anyhow, Miss T was on form. It seems that one of the occupants of the railway cottages was cleaning the upper floor windows when he was surprised by a troop of giant monochrome cyclists led by an even larger Miss T pulling a characteristic expression. Little wonder he seems in the act of losing his balance! Further and better particulars of the layout Here 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) On the subject of level crossings on urban sidings, this one in Erith, Kent, originally had the 4ft gauge Parish's Loam Quarry railway and a parallel standard gauge siding crossing a road with an electric tramway (standard gauge). No wonder a signal box was needed! Note the overlapping crossing gates... (Photo in 1970) Edited August 24, 2019 by Tom Burnham 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 On 23/08/2019 at 11:56, St Enodoc said: Oh yes! By "Dax", whoever he was (possibly P D Hancock, judging by the drawing style?). I have pondered that question as well however whilst a few of PD' s original sketches survive I have not seen any which would suggest he was 'Dax'. I do sometimes wish I lived closer to Peco at Beer so that I could go and have a good rummage in their archives. There must be a lot of archived material relating to Hancock, Denny and many others stored away just waiting to be re-discovered. Malcolm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, dunwurken said: I have pondered that question as well however whilst a few of PD' s original sketches survive I have not seen any which would suggest he was 'Dax'. I do sometimes wish I lived closer to Peco at Beer so that I could go and have a good rummage in their archives. There must be a lot of archived material relating to Hancock, Denny and many others stored away just waiting to be re-discovered. Malcolm I am not so sure about that. Material may well have been returned to the Author once used so they may not hold unused photo original text and sketches. As a former editor I tend to regard the Magazines as the archive. So odd sketches may come to life rather like Old Masters preparatory drawings which although they may fetch a fortune at aution never match the artists final work. Don 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyS Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I have spoken to Rod Allcock who has seen the P D Hancock archive at Peco. He says it only contains a few published photos together with paper masks to frame and shape them for publication. Rodney 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) But who was 'Dax'? I feel a sort of model railway buff's Quest for Corvo is called for! Anyway, I'm Up to Something (yes, Worrying Capitalisation) and was just planning The Next Phase, when the accident struck. Not drunk, you understand, but having drink taken, I've just cut myself on a retractable tape measure. More on this tomorrow (if I don't expire of blood loss overnight). Edited August 24, 2019 by Edwardian 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted August 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2019 36 minutes ago, Edwardian said: But who was 'Dax'? I feel a sort of model railway buff's Quest for Corvo is called for! Anyway, I'm Up to Something (yes, Worrying Capitalisation) and was just planning The Next Phase, when the accident struck. Not drunk, you understand, but having drink taken, I've just cut myself on a retractable tape measure. More on this tomorrow (if I don't expire of blood loss overnight). I thought the idea was measure three times and cut once Nick 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Donw said: I am not so sure about that. Material may well have been returned to the Author once used so they may not hold unused photo original text and sketches. As a former editor I tend to regard the Magazines as the archive. So odd sketches may come to life rather like Old Masters preparatory drawings which although they may fetch a fortune at aution never match the artists final work. Don You are of course correct, in those days the originals would often be sent back to the author and in the E&LMRC PD Hancock Collection are a number the articles in PD' s own hand or typed plus all the original colour photos and some of the black and white photos with instructions from CJF to the photo dept. What I was rather hoping might have been on file were the letters exchanged between PDH and CJF which would answer one or two missing links. 42 minutes ago, RodneyS said: I have spoken to Rod Allcock who has seen the P D Hancock archive at Peco. He says it only contains a few published photos together with paper masks to frame and shape them for publication. Rodney I've known Rod for a number of years through the 009 Society and Rod' s membership of an ad hoc PDH group and picked up many interesting facts from him. I was sure I had discussed the Peco archive with him as I am aware he has contacts there but that would be few years ago when Peco told me they no idea what was in the archive. Rod must have managed to get an answer and if all that is there are copy photos then that in turn answers one big question for me. Many thanks for that I'll have a chat with Rod in due course. Malcolm 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2019 56 minutes ago, Edwardian said: But who was 'Dax'? I feel a sort of model railway buff's Quest for Corvo is called for! Anyway, I'm Up to Something (yes, Worrying Capitalisation) and was just planning The Next Phase, when the accident struck. Not drunk, you understand, but having drink taken, I've just cut myself on a retractable tape measure. More on this tomorrow (if I don't expire of blood loss overnight). Whatever you do, do not drip blood into the keyboard. It makes the keys sticky! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 hours ago, dunwurken said: You are of course correct, in those days the originals would often be sent back to the author and in the E&LMRC PD Hancock Collection are a number the articles in PD' s own hand or typed plus all the original colour photos and some of the black and white photos with instructions from CJF to the photo dept. In my own experience (from John Brewer's time, not CJF's) the B&W prints were all returned to the author. Those not used were untouched. Those that had been used often had cartridge paper masks on the front with hand-drawn cropping marks and printers' instructions on the back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 A Room of My Own - Part II Part I, Parishioners may dimly recall, involved the installation of a large shop display cabinet in the office. This still needs an internal shelf and the rear dust cloth fitting. In the meantime, rather fed up with having a non-operational part-layout in a shed, I thought that working test track-c*m-photo-plank in the office might be an idea, so I have made a simple board to cover the cabinet. I have plans to have a right-angled extension over the top of my desk (to the right) where it will pass over my 'pooter screen. This is an on-the-cheap project, using bits and bobs of lumber from around the place, which precludes further expenditure, so no pesky points on this one, just a nice curve of track to test and snap. Dimensions for those interested are 5' x 2', at its broadest, The front 1' tapers to 14". The idea is to make the scene fairly minimal and generic in order that I can use it to suggest any part of the CA/WNR world, mainline or branch and including tramway and mineral lines, or, indeed, anywhere else for the purpose of presenting stock. This means that, in the foreseeable, it is likely to be called upon to display GWR, LNWR, LSWR, LB&SCR, SE&CR, GNR and NER! Thus, it needs to avoid company infrastructure or anything that too firmly anchors the geography. Bland, in a word. Naturally, having seen the space, I wish to fill it with some fully realised layout scheme, but I must resist, or the flexibility of the installation will be lost and it will take too much time away from CA pursuits! 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted August 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2019 That's seriously good idea and a good use of space James. Be cautious though, many a test track has grown to become a fully fledged layout (Not that it's an entirely bad thing mind you). 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Annie said: That's seriously good idea and a good use of space James. Be cautious though, many a test track has grown to become a fully fledged layout (Not that it's an entirely bad thing mind you). Yes, I sense danger here! I was just thinking that, at the rear of the scene it could not hurt to have a pub and short row of shops or houses in the sort of late Victorian brick that could be found almost anywhere! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted August 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Edwardian said: Yes, I sense danger here! I was just thinking that, at the rear of the scene it could not hurt to have a pub and short row of shops or houses in the sort of late Victorian brick that could be found almost anywhere! James, if you want that why not make a Superquick kit? They are not expensive and would provide a background without much effort or time. If you have a short depth of focus they will just be a fuzz in the background. Or, have you a ready made building you could just 'plonk' behind whatever you are photographing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 11 hours ago, St Enodoc said: In my own experience (from John Brewer's time, not CJF's) the B&W prints were all returned to the author. Those not used were untouched. Those that had been used often had cartridge paper masks on the front with hand-drawn cropping marks and printers' instructions on the back. No cartridge paper masks but numerous instructions and cropping marks on both b&w and colour photos/transparencies. Oh how times have changed, take photo, email to Steve Flint and into print after a little Photoshop! Going back to the early 1950's some of PD' s sketches are mirror image to the printed sketch as it appears in RM or MRN. I presume this was something to do with the printing techniques of the day but despite Mr Google throwing up plenty of reading material on the history of printing the best I can come up with is that certain types of lithograph appear to have required the drawing for printing to be provided mirror image to how the drawing was to appear in the publication. I have been unable to confirm that this was indeed a requirement in the case with RM and MRN and if so why only some of the drawings. Another mystery waiting to be solved. Malcolm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 hours ago, dunwurken said: No cartridge paper masks but numerous instructions and cropping marks on both b&w and colour photos/transparencies. Oh how times have changed, take photo, email to Steve Flint and into print after a little Photoshop! Going back to the early 1950's some of PD' s sketches are mirror image to the printed sketch as it appears in RM or MRN. I presume this was something to do with the printing techniques of the day but despite Mr Google throwing up plenty of reading material on the history of printing the best I can come up with is that certain types of lithograph appear to have required the drawing for printing to be provided mirror image to how the drawing was to appear in the publication. I have been unable to confirm that this was indeed a requirement in the case with RM and MRN and if so why only some of the drawings. Another mystery waiting to be solved. Malcolm If you are etching directly onto the plate as in a monotype then yes the image must be drawn in reverse. If working from a PDH line drawing or whatever then a with (high contrast) negative would be made and this would be used for etching the plate via a resist. If the sage is the wrong way round then someone boobed and flipped the neg! Could, and did, also happen with screened half tones. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2019 8 hours ago, dunwurken said: No cartridge paper masks but numerous instructions and cropping marks on both b&w and colour photos/transparencies. Oh how times have changed, take photo, email to Steve Flint and into print after a little Photoshop! Going back to the early 1950's some of PD' s sketches are mirror image to the printed sketch as it appears in RM or MRN. I presume this was something to do with the printing techniques of the day but despite Mr Google throwing up plenty of reading material on the history of printing the best I can come up with is that certain types of lithograph appear to have required the drawing for printing to be provided mirror image to how the drawing was to appear in the publication. I have been unable to confirm that this was indeed a requirement in the case with RM and MRN and if so why only some of the drawings. Another mystery waiting to be solved. Malcolm 3 hours ago, wagonman said: If you are etching directly onto the plate as in a monotype then yes the image must be drawn in reverse. If working from a PDH line drawing or whatever then a with (high contrast) negative would be made and this would be used for etching the plate via a resist. If the sage is the wrong way round then someone boobed and flipped the neg! Could, and did, also happen with screened half tones. My own sketches were reproduced the same way round as I drew them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: My own sketches were reproduced the same way round as I drew them. Which means the technician didn't balls it up! Mostly they didn't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted August 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2019 Yes, when I started work we were using zincos for line diagrams and etched copper plates for photos. Both were produced as suggested above via an intermediate high resolution photo of the original produced in the studio of the provider of the plates. This was specialist work by specialist companies. Incidentally, the same process as used for line diagrams was used by Trevor Charlton for his etched zinc carriage kits - several of which I still have "under construction". I still have a few odd photo plates squirrelled away in case i want some copper sheet. And yes, originals were returned - in fact if they come to me in physical form for the HMRS or WRRC work I do they are still returned these days, though of course I will have scans of the originals. Photos were not cheap to print. When I was first working on Light and Lighting magazine we had to get sponsorship for any colour photos and even later there was a limit of six colour images per issue - colour of course involved four pieces of copper. Even much more recently, one was still reliant on the printer's darkroom for turning images into negatives for printing. I don't remember ever getting any provided back to front though. Happy days! Jonathan PS Edwardian, would a rural scene be better as a neutral background for photographic purposes? I line of track across the front, with a hedge or fence behild, with behind that a backscene of suitably neutral countryside. That is what I did for a while - in fact mine folded flat though you do not need that. You can see a few photos taken on it in my Sarn/Nantcwmdu thread. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said: Yes, when I started work we were using zincos for line diagrams and etched copper plates for photos. Both were produced as suggested above via an intermediate high resolution photo of the original produced in the studio of the provider of the plates. This was specialist work by specialist companies. Incidentally, the same process as used for line diagrams was used by Trevor Charlton for his etched zinc carriage kits - several of which I still have "under construction". I still have a few odd photo plates squirrelled away in case i want some copper sheet. And yes, originals were returned - in fact if they come to me in physical form for the HMRS or WRRC work I do they are still returned these days, though of course I will have scans of the originals. Photos were not cheap to print. When I was first working on Light and Lighting magazine we had to get sponsorship for any colour photos and even later there was a limit of six colour images per issue - colour of course involved four pieces of copper. Even much more recently, one was still reliant on the printer's darkroom for turning images into negatives for printing. I don't remember ever getting any provided back to front though. Happy days! Jonathan PS Edwardian, would a rural scene be better as a neutral background for photographic purposes? I line of track across the front, with a hedge or fence behild, with behind that a backscene of suitably neutral countryside. That is what I did for a while - in fact mine folded flat though you do not need that. You can see a few photos taken on it in my Sarn/Nantcwmdu thread. Indeed, that is what I had in mind. Function must dictate form. It is: (1) a test track. Given there is no room for a loop, I must use the space available to make the longest run possible. This means that the running quality of whole trains of hand-built stock can be tested. I accept that there is no testing over points, but it will be the points that need fettling if the stock cannot run over them on the layout! It follows that only this one track need be live. (2) a photoplank. Displaying a variety of stock means the scene should be as generic as possible and I absolutely agree that a 'less is more' countryside is best. I can lay other, no-operational, track in order to increase the stock on display and to help anchor the scene, e.g. when photographing a Great Western train, other GW stock can be stood around to provide 'context' . The sidings also mean that there is an area of yard and I can include a stretch of road. The advantage here is to provide settings for models of road vehicles and the like. A single line runs, right to left as the ground falls away to a stream bed, where the embanked line crossing it via culvert. The land then climbs again until it forms a very shallow cutting on the curve. Behind the curve the land continues to rise gently towards the rear corner. The idea is that there is just enough variation in ground level to provide interest as the train passes. Very much like your Sarn/Nantcwmdu layout, rising ground to the rear of scene should help to frame the models. At the left end, I thought to place two sidings behind the line. These would represent the ends of longer sidings and could be used to stand/display other stock. Similarly, a short stub in front could mark the end of some headshunt/loop. A Bit of a Bitsa station is thus suggested! But completely pointless. Crudely sketched ..... Hopefully the gentle undulations in the countryside could be almost anywhere (except the Fens!). As a photo-plank it has to cope with everything from a small industrial or tram engine through to a Stirling Single or Brighton Atlantic so must be classically "Somewhere in England". Or lowland Scotland or Wales. Although I cannot really use NER ash ballast on such a generic scene, there are plenty of Northern dales and valleys that the scene could pass for, Edited August 26, 2019 by Edwardian 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted August 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) That looks good. i must admit that i was thinking of something even simpler, like my photographic setup, below, but you have a lot more room than the whole of Sarn which is 4 ft by 2 ft plus a short fiddle yard siding. Go for it. Jonathan PS But a bit quicker than my "quicky" Sarn layout - six years and still not complete. Edited August 26, 2019 by corneliuslundie Typo 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: (1) a test track. Given there is no room for a loop, I must use the space available to make the longest run possible. This means that the running quality of whole trains of hand-built stock can be tested. I accept that there is no testing over points, but it will be the points that need fettling if the stock cannot run over them on the layout! It follows that only this one track need be live. (2) a photoplank. Displaying a variety of stock means the scene should be as generic as possible and I absolutely agree that a 'less is more' countryside is best. I can lay other, no-operational, track in order to increase the stock on display and to help anchor the scene, e.g. when photographing a Great Western train, other GW stock can be stood around to provide 'context' . The sidings also mean that there is an area of yard and I can include a stretch of road. The advantage here is to provide settings for models of road vehicles and the like. A single line runs, right to left as the ground falls away to a stream bed, where the embanked line crossing it via culvert. The land then climbs again until it forms a very shallow cutting on the curve. Behind the curve the land continues to rise gently towards the rear corner. The idea is that there is just enough variation in ground level to provide interest as the train passes. As a test track, make sure you replicate the smallest radius curves that you want your trains to traverse (a reverse curve would be good too although less attractive). 17 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said: something even simpler, like my photographic setup Forgive me, Jonathan, but your picture reminded me that somewhere I've seen a purpose-built photo plank where the track was on an embankment, so that when low-level shots were taken they were nicely framed at the front. Edited August 26, 2019 by St Enodoc 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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