Castle Aching

[robmcg]

20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Thinking back, in my teens, I managed to discover girls, and motorbikes, and volunteering on preserved railways, and being an active member of a model railway club, and getting-up at six o'clock every weekday morning for work, and evening classes two nights each week.

 

Put like that, I only wish I had half the energy now that I had then!

 

For clarity, I don't decry highly detailed model railways, in fact I admire them, and the people with the single-mindedness to build them, but I equally admire Mr F's work because he "cracks on", and gets a big layout to a very presentable standard indeed in a reasonable time, by avoiding the snare of micro-detailing.

 

I'm with you on that. Differing only on the details of youth, and not doing evening classes. I mean, doing Latin and French at school and cross-country running in the evenings, I clearly had it easy.

 

Had a religious mother too. So the issues of science had to be accommodated from an early age.  Older brothers had friends who offered adventures, one even owned a Jaguar,  I worked all the jobs I could find and bought a half-decent camera,   but that is not overly relevant. I too admire excellent modelling such as Edwardian's bridge, and Tony Wright's engine-building is sublime.  But the latter would frown on my acceptance of cheap cameras and enlargers for my professional photography, I mean, I eschewed my Leica III for a Minolta when I used my motorbike as a press photographer in the 70s.   Lax! 

 

 

[Regularity]

36 minutes ago, robmcg said:

May I enquire of the illustrious readers of this eminent thread how I must act in accordance with basic principles of politeness with regard to another much-read thread, namely the one where 'real modelling' is discussed?

 

I have got into a lot of trouble in my life by being too lax with standards of behaviour, and would love to put a(n) heavily edited picture of a(n) Hornby Scottish B1 into a thread currently covering the esoteric details of the class,  but it might result in my expulsion from the forum for 'contentious behaviour'..

 

So I'll put the pic here instead...

 

Lovely model and in fact hardly edited at all, but at least I paint my own skies.  

 

 

This one is self-powered.  What will they think of next? What I cannot work out is why RM writers talk of wanting models to look like models, not of the real thing.  When models are of course models, and pictures are pictures of models or the real thing or something else, like Annie's beautiful Victorian travels.

 

 

Well, that’s an LNER B1, so outside the remit of this area of the forum (it’s not pre-grouping).

 

But we all respect “Rule number 1”. We might josh, joke and tease each other, but if clockwork powered tinplate is your thing, then no one is upset about that. If you lean towards lots of track (because it is the actual railway and its operations which interests you) then that’s your thing. If you want to get as much right as possible, then as long as you don’t tell everyone else that their chosen “standards” are wrong, no one minds.

In short, you will get shown the same respect as you show others.

 

[robmcg]

30 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

I worked at an oil company once where there was a geophysicist who was deeply religious in that fundamentalist the-bible-is-literally-true way.

 

Yet his day to day work required him to interpret and describe  geological processes and features that  were provenly millions of years old and which made obvious that the world hadn't been created in seven days a few thousand years ago.

We asked him once how he was able to keep both completely exclusive positions happily  in his head, and he said that one was just  for work and the other one was how things really are. 

 

 

 

Giving new meaning to 'alternative realities'.    He possibly didn't do a lot of conventional philosophy at uni.  Or if he did was entirely comfortable with a subjective and flexible idea of 'real', which would likely have been quite alarming if he had taken acid.

 

Modelling is of course an alternative reality. Works for me.  Well, I don't do much modelling, I create things on a screen using 00 models a camera and PSP6.

Defence of my pictures, which I have unwisely put into modelling threads at times, has caused Andy Y to formally warn me for 'contentious behaviour' which is now on my profile. He said he gets overloaded with complaints.... 

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, Regularity said:

Well, that’s an LNER B1, so outside the remit of this area of the forum (it’s not pre-grouping).

 

 

 

But so are universal theories of truth, reality, and Norfolk Economic Orthodoxies.

 

Except that they quite probably exist inside the remit too, so I'll concede defeat.

Edited December 9, 2019 by robmcg
change of tense

[Regularity]

4 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

But so are universal theories of truth, reality, and Norfolk Economic Orthodoxies.

Yes, but they have nothing directly to do with trains (and therefore are not grouping era or later), and could have been discussed at the CAPC, had Castle Aching existed and had its own Parish Council, during the Edwardian era. (In this context, defined as what is acceptable to the PC Chairman.)

[Regularity]

12 minutes ago, robmcg said:

Andy Y said he gets overloaded with complaints

As far as this thread goes, we disagree with each other frequently, maybe even heatedly, but not contentiously (well, maybe I do, but we sort it out). So, even though we break virtually all the rules about what is an acceptable topic for discussion (the politics of sex and religion has probably been discussed) we don’t break the rules about how we discuss them.

I still don’t know if Andy tolerates these digressions because we are self-regulating of our behaviour, or if he has simply given up on us and retreated to a safe distance. I suppose I could ask him, but would rather we kept our collective heads below the parapet.

[monkeysarefun]

9 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I still don’t know if Andy tolerates these digressions because we are self-regulating of our behaviour, or if he has simply given up on us and retreated to a safe distance. I suppose I could ask him, but would rather we kept our collective heads below the parapet.

Its like that in the "Those that fear coming to Australia" thread where we rip into our current politicians fairly regularly without being yellow-carded, probably because Andy doesn't know who we are talking about..

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

14 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

I worked at an oil company once where there was a geophysicist who was deeply religious in that fundamentalist the-bible-is-literally-true way.

 

Yet his day to day work required him to interpret and describe  geological processes and features that  were provenly millions of years old and which made obvious that the world hadn't been created in seven days a few thousand years ago.

We asked him once how he was able to keep both completely exclusive positions happily  in his head, and he said that one was just  for work and the other one was how things really are. 

 

 

 

As an archaeologist I would sometimes come across the real honest-to-"God" fundamentalist. It was a rare occurrence thankfully but it did happen. I remember one who was really uptight about the Big Bang theory and cited this as how scientists were just making it up as they went along. The contention was that science failed to explain what created the conditions for the Big Bang and therefore this indicated that God existed because only God could have created those conditions. They also went further to say that by postulating the Big Bang the scientists were putting a finite time on the existence of the universe so that also confirmed the existence of a God to create everything. It is one of those rather circular arguments which start with an unproved assumption and use this to prove the assumption correct. It was rather easy to counter it and resulted in the fundamentalist deciding to go off and find someone else to proselytise.

 

I suggested that the Big Bang theory in reality argues for an infinite series of expansions and contractions and suggested that this was in no way different from their concept of a Creator because their argument did not explain who or what created God so that required that the God/Creator was in fact a being who had existed for infinity. I then turned that theological argument on its head saying that it also was equally supportive of the Big Bang theory which took the known data of universe expansion plus the laws of conservation of energy and postulated an infinite series. I went further to ask why they were willing to accept the existence of a Creator with an infinite existence, yet be unwilling to accept a physical process with the same characteristics. This is a useful and relatively non-combative way because it introduces the fundamentalist who by their nature are uncritical people to the notion that in order to understand one must first learn to doubt to one's own assumptions.

 

Fundamentalists (of whatever religion or political creed) are incapable of doubt because if they had the capacity to question their own belief systems they wouldn't be fundamentalists - they'd instead be on the track to rational scientific debate. Rational scientific debate is antithetical  to fundamentalism because it knocks away all the comfortable certainties, and comfortable certainties really don't have a place in science. Thus there can be no entity as creation science because it is internally incompatible with both the fundamentalist concept of a Creator and the investigatory nature of scientific method. I.e. it is starting with an accepted fact then inventing a series of data sets to prove that fact. A epistemological process which is at war with itself can only have a short existence - science allows such entities to die while fundamentalism forces them to continue an intellectually crippled existence.

[runs as required]

On 07/12/2019 at 14:30, Phil Traxson said:

Perhaps re-open the Afon Wen, Caernarfon, Bangor link.  The Aberystwyth to Afon Wen section still exists though without looking I'm not sure that the side of the triangle near Morfa Mawdach that links the Aberystwyth and Pwllheli lines without reversal exists. I believe this is also in part of the plan if the first part succeeds. Unfortunately I doubt that I will live long enough to see it happen. I'm also of the opinion that it is about as likely to happen as the FR & WHR extending from Caernarfon to Bangor, in fact the latter, at "no chance" may well be more likely! 

Phil T. (I'm in favour of either or both of the above)

I used to love riding that line on Summer Saturdays.

It really excited me that standing on Porthmadog station at about 9.00H you could elect to go back home in crowded trains standing opposite one another at either platform.  
Southwards by still noticeably a Great Western train behind a Collett 2251 (via either the Cambrian or Ruabon) or northwards with the Euston Confederacy from Afon Wen past the western slate lines e.g. Dinas Junction. The LMR had one important advantage: seat armrests in the corridor Seconds.

 

However, to escape getting depressed by the wider world this week I imagined I was working in the Centre for Alternative Technology at Machynlleth and charged with organising an all Welsh through train from Cardiff via the Manchester & Milford to Aberystwyth thence from Minffordd by Welsh Narrow gauge via Beddgelert to Carnafon and Blaenau to Wrecsam. The standard gauge will mostly be electrified using HEP, but where it gets seriously expensive the Welsh Dragon loco switches to batteries (Whatever happened to the CAT's Parry 'people mover'; does it still survive?).

 

Minffordd 'Welsh Dragon' change of gauge (convenient also for visiting Prisoners at Portmeirion  )

 

I suggest it would be excitingly Welsh Nat. to ride in narrow gauge coaches all the way. [My favourites were the Portuguese Art Deco Corgo line NG train interiors from the Douro valley corkscrewing up to the high 'Blue Nun' Wine country.]

The gauge transition is the inverse of the Manfold Valley's transporter wagons.

dh

At least this post is about railways - even pre grouping ones. But will Andy slap wrists for it not being in 'imaginary locos'?

Edited December 9, 2019 by runs as required

[Regularity]

Personally speaking, I have always thought that the most wonderful thing about human beings is that they have the poetical ability to conceive of God/god/gods/greater purpose/science/maths/art/humanities.*
‘Tis a shame that the poetry is (ab)used to inspire enmity (within and without communities of belief) and hold back scientific understanding of what we can reach (that’s just within some communities of belief).
* And railway modelling, of course, but here I suspect that I am preaching to the converted.

[robmcg]

4 hours ago, Regularity said:

Personally speaking, I have always thought that the most wonderful thing about human beings is that they have the poetical ability to conceive of God/god/gods/greater purpose/science/maths/art/humanities.*
‘Tis a shame that the poetry is (ab)used to inspire enmity (within and without communities of belief) and hold back scientific understanding of what we can reach (that’s just within some communities of belief).
* And railway modelling, of course, but here I suspect that I am preaching to the converted.

 

If God or the Gods are or were just and kind they would have given the Welsh engines like this to serve Ebbw Vale.

 

 

If Annie's computer hardware is tested with Victorian trains, then this should require Google's new molecular 'miracle' processor.  

 

Duluth Missabe and Iron Range 2-8-8-4 built on principles perfected before 1923, which makes it almost the same as my Johnson 4-4-0s.... 

 

I really must learn to behave but fear it is a very slim possibility, my injuries you know.  

 

After all, from the very same virtual brush we can have this...

 

 

Somewhere in-between is the Edwardian version of truth justice liberty and the Norfolk Way.

 

Nurse! Where are my pills?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by robmcg

[Hroth]

19 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Great bridges, thanks.

 

And spookily on topic.  When you see my next update on the test track, you'll see why!

 

In the meantime, I'll enjoy looking at this layout.

 

If you're going to do the Big Reveal this week, it might be a good idea to keep it for Friday as we emerge, dripping like unfortunate bog-snorkellers, from the Slough of Despond...   Whatever happens, we'll certainly need something to entice us back towards the Broad Sunlit Uplands of the Edwardian Era!

 

Meanwhile.

 

 

I've submitted my Postal Vote, so I can now do what seems best.

 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, robmcg said:

 

If God or the Gods are or were just and kind they would have given the Welsh engines like this to serve Ebbw Vale.

 

 

If Annie's computer hardware is tested with Victorian trains, then this should require Google's new molecular 'miracle' processor.  

 

Duluth Missabe and Iron Range 2-8-8-4 built on principles perfected before 1923, which makes it almost the same as my Johnson 4-4-0s.... 

 

I really must learn to behave but fear it is a very slim possibility, my injuries you know.  

 

After all, from the very same virtual brush we can have this...

 

 

Somewhere in-between is the Edwardian version of truth justice liberty and the Norfolk Way.

 

Nurse! Where are my pills?

 

 

 

 

 

The big black monster probably wouldn't have

• Gone around the bends *
• Negotiated the humps/dips and
• Fitted the Severn Tunnel

But nevermind, Nursie is on her way with something appropriate.....

 

As for 1745, that commemorates the furthest expansion, 274 years ago, of the Jacobite Rebellion, who reached Derby on the 4th December of that year, only to find that they were over 120 years too early for the next train to St Pancras.

 

* Even if the Hornby International/Rivarossi Big Boy is claimed to manage R1 curves.

 

 

[Talltim]

On 24/11/2019 at 10:51, Edwardian said:

 

No, you're not.  So far as I am aware, I am; that's been my Stated Intention for years!

 

Why do you think I'm forever banging on about them?!?

 

Again, some other b*gger'll do it before me!

 

Too much musing, too little modelling, that's my whole problem!

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t worry. I was modelling a fictitious Manchester Ringway (airport) station. The real railway beat me to building it. Also, in the time I’ve been building an Ashover coach, they’ve rescued a body from use as a cricket pavilion and completely restored it as s running vehicle (and very nice it is too)

[Compound2632]

@robmcg: Acceptable B1s:

 

 

 

Great Central Class 8C 4-6-0 (LNER B1) of 1903 - Robinson's first and perhaps most handsome essay at an express passenger 4-6-0 but only two built, for comparison with his atlantics. (I initially posted a photo of an express goods Class 8 4-6-0 of 1902 - Fish Engine (LNER B5)).

 

 

North Eastern Class B1 0-6-2T of 1886 (LNER N8) - the compound engines on the Worsdell-von Borries two-cylinder system were originally Class B with the simple engines built for comparison as Class B1; later, on conversion of the compounds, the whole lot became Class B. Sorry I couldn't find a postable photo in full T.W. Worsdell livery!

 

 

London Brighton & South Coast Class B1 0-4-2 of 1882 - Stroudley's offbeat idea of what an express passenger engine should look like.

 

 

 

 

South Eastern & Chatham Class B1 4-4-0, rebuilt from Stirling's South Eastern Railway Class B of 1898, from 1910 onwards.

 

London Chatham & Dover Class B1 0-6-0 of 1877 - the second batch of William Kirtley's standard goods engines, the final development of which was the SE&C Class C (no photo).

 

Have I missed any?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Compound2632
Fish engine deleted, correct engine inserted.

[Edwardian]

51 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

If you're going to do the Big Reveal this week, it might be a good idea to keep it for Friday as we emerge, dripping like unfortunate bog-snorkellers, from the Slough of Despond...   Whatever happens, we'll certainly need something to entice us back towards the Broad Sunlit Uplands of the Edwardian Era!

 

Meanwhile.

 

 

I've submitted my Postal Vote, so I can now do what seems best.

 

 

I don't think that my snail's pace modelling really makes for much of a 'big reveal', but I have been working on a new structure on the test track.  I failed to finish it this weekend, so I doubt they'll be anything to show by Friday!

 

 

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I failed to finish it this weekend, so I doubt they'll be anything to show by Friday!

 

Anything would probably do on Friday!

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Great Central Class 8C 4-6-0 (LNER B1) of 1903 - Robinson's first and perhaps most handsome essay at a 4-6-0 but only two built, for comparison with his atlantics.

 

The body looks like it was built to accommodate P4, though apparently running on OO... 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

The body looks like it was built to accommodate P4, though apparently running on OO... 

 

Remember Robinson had not long arrived at Gorton from the Waterford Limerick & Western, so he was having to get used to the 10% narrower gauge. 

 

Hroth's comment refers to the photo of a Class 8 Fish Engine that I initially posted in error for a photo of a Class 8C express passenger engine:

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Compound2632
Added erratum and photo that Hroth had commented upon.

[Talltim]

On 25/11/2019 at 19:44, Martin S-C said:

Regrettably, in my view, it had a bad case of "unusual-wagon-itis" with nowhere nearly enough vanilla vehicles. It was nicely done though, plus DCC sound.

What sound does fish oil make?

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, runs as required said:

The LMR had one important advantage: seat armrests in the corridor Seconds.

 

 

Non pre-Grouping comment (look away now): isn't it the case that even the Mk 1s were different? LMR and ER were given a central fold-down armrest, indicating an intended compartment capacity of eight, whereas WR and SR had none, indicating the intention of cramming ten in if at all possible?

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Talltim said:

What sound does fish oil make?

 

Slopping and slurping. There are also the sounds made by people trying to remove themselves from the vicinity of the smell - retching, etc.

 

Unusual wagons can be usual in the right circumstances. A layout based on St Helens can have any number of glass wagons. If your town's department store has just had new plate glass windows fitted, empty glass wagons awaiting return to St Helens can legitimately stand in your goods yard.

 

For fish oil, guano, and related commodities in a Norfolk context, vide supra et seq. It's a fertile topic.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Compound2632

[runs as required]

Thanks for that confirmation on arm rests. I could not remember about the BR northern lines. WR guards used to shoe-horn extra passengers in off the corridor.
dh

Edited December 9, 2019 by runs as required

[webbcompound]

All this talk of pretty B1 class locos misses out the cutest: The Pennsylvania Railroad B1.  built 1926, but then when was pre-grouping in the US anyway? 

[RedGemAlchemist]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Even if the Hornby International/Rivarossi Big Boy is claimed to manage R1 curves.

I'll believe that when I see it. 

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

@robmcg: Acceptable B1s:

 

 

Great Central Class 8C 4-6-0 (LNER B1) of 1903 - Robinson's first and perhaps most handsome essay at a 4-6-0 but only two built, for comparison with his atlantics.

Not my favourite LNER B, but a solid one nonetheless. 

 

22 minutes ago, Talltim said:

What sound does fish oil make?

Depends on the fish. 

 

6 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

All this talk of pretty B1 class locos misses out the cutest: The Pennsylvania Railroad B1.  built 1926, but then when was pre-grouping in the US anyway? 

That's utterly adorable. I love it! 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

Depends on the fish. 

 

 

Nope, depends on how well-oiled the fish is.

 

I made a mistake. The photo I posted earlier was a Robinson Class 8 4-6-0 (LNER B5), these were in fact the first of his 4-6-0s. Fish engine:

 

 

I am correcting my previous posts.