Castle Aching

[runs as required]

The 

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Not at all.

The design was perfectly balanced for the size of the engine and the work it produced, but it wasn’t good for larger engines like a 2-8-0.

The Midland had two possible solutions to this problem: experiment with boiler and firebox proportions to produce a more reliable eight-coupled loco, or double-head 0-6-0s on freight and add pilot locos to passenger trains where required. They chose the latter path, which was fine for the early part of the 20th Century when labour was relatively cheaper...

The LNWR was successful with its 0-8-0s, but less so with its 4-6-0s ...

... the drawing office staff were not developing new ideas, vide the 4F, which used too many standard components with the “standard” 0-6-0s, and which was less preferred by enginemen than a 3F. The same design constraints proved to be the Achilles heel of the LMS Beyer-Garratts...

... A decently boilered 2-8-0 would have been an alternative solution to double-heading, but the Derby design office (for whatever reason) simply wasn’t mentally geared up for the task.

Thanks to Stephen and to you for those informative replies.

Along that stretch of the Goyt Valley the Midland and the LNW were climbing to Peak Forest and Buxton on either side of the valley. 

By the 1950s the LMS 2-8-0s had effectively taken over: both on the ICI Northwich lime hoppers as well as the lime traffic on the LNW (with John Axon's  2-8-0 demolishing Chapel South signal box).

It was the pre-grouping Midland engines I was recalling.

A piano front 0-8-0 LNW compound's boiler exploded disastrously at Buxton in the 1890s, but the rebuilt simple Buxton 0-8-0s were much in evidence as stalwart climbers around past Combs up to Doveholes through the 1950s - and over the Ashbourne line and its residual limeworks stubs.

I can't actually recall double headed Midland goods working - though do remember LMS Garratts running via the Hope Valley to Chinley/Gowhole.

My real point was that it was never thought necessary by the Midland to evolve differing locomotives for its Pennine lines as opposed to the lowland England routes (whereas it willingly varied the mix for subsidiaries in Somerset, Eastern England and Ireland).

dh

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by runs as required

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, runs as required said:

 

My real point was that it was never thought necessary by the Midland to evolve differing locomotives for its Pennine lines as opposed to the lowland England routes (whereas it willingly varied the mix for subsidiaries in Somerset, Eastern England and Ireland).

 

 

Indeed. Apart from top flight express passenger engines, it was one size fits all: basically variations on the 8'0" + 8'6" wheelbase 0-6-0 / 2-4-0, making a 4-4-0 by substituting for the leading axle or a 0-4-4T by substituting for the trailing axle. The spinners were confined to the London and Bristol lines south of Derby / Nottingham - though there are some stiff climbs there (not counting the Lickey) - and the Cheshire Lines, likewise the 7'0" 4-4-0s in their heyday. But come the Belpaires and Compounds - 7'0" engines all - there was no distinction - they worked between London, Leicester, Leeds and Carlisle. Likewise the 483 class superheater rebuilds were all 7'0" engines, irrespective of which engines they nominally replaced.

 

The two joint lines where the Midland was responsible for locomotive matters are an interesting contrast - in part because the Midland assumed responsibility for the M&GN locomotives nearly two decades after it had for the S&DJR. In 1876, S.W. Johnson was just at the start of his Midland career - experimenting and developing his standard types. Thus the Scotties are tender versions of the South Wales Tanks (1102 Class) and the Avonsides represent a natural step in the progression of the 0-4-4T between the 6 Class and 1532 Class. The 4-4-0s of 1891, with their small 5'9" coupled wheels, were evidently designed for local conditions. The Midland's responsibility for the M&GN dated from two years later; it was a much easier road, Midland 4-4-0 design had settled down, so it was straightforward to just order more 1808 Class engines and in due course standard 0-6-0s. On the other hand, the Locomotive Superintendents at Highbridge were a succession of Derby men - so, one suspects, on a tighter rein than William Marriott at Melton Constable, who seems to have had much more independence; as much as Malcolm Bowman on the NCC. Both had the advantage of being the sitting tenant when the Derby arrived on the scene. Not that Alfred Whittaker wasn't up to fighting his corner - he knew what the S&DJR needed and wasn't always getting from Derby.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Nesbit stayed with relatives in a house overlooking the line in the vicinity of Marple.  There you get tunnel and cutting and aqueduct. You also get Strines, the perfect country passing station, and the Midland trains varied by the GCR's 'Green Dragon'.

 

Not forgetting the proposed identification of "The Old Gentleman" with Edward Ross, Secretary to the Board of the Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire, who lived in Marple.

 

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

You also get Strines

You get a lot of those in these parts too.

[uax6]

Going back to the chassis and your grooved wheels. Look on Peters spares to see if you can get a set of non-traction tyred replacements (I'm guessing that this chassis has only got elastic bands on one of the driving wheel sets?) so the other axle should be available as a spare. It will either be a straight swap, or while need the wheels pulling off the axle and put onto the existing axle.....

 

Go carefully and it will be ok.

 

Good work by the way sir!

 

Andy G

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Going back to the chassis and your grooved wheels. Look on Peters spares to see if you can get a set of non-traction tyred replacements (I'm guessing that this chassis has only got elastic bands on one of the driving wheel sets?) so the other axle should be available as a spare. It will either be a straight swap, or while need the wheels pulling off the axle and put onto the existing axle.....

 

Go carefully and it will be ok.

 

But it's the axle with the gear. Not straightforward? In the interests of keeping things moving, wouldn't replacement tyres be a better bet?

[uax6]

I wonder if the tyres can be pushed off the Hornby centres? Then the proper ones off a spare axle could be pushed on.....

 

Andy G

[Compound2632]

He's just got it working. Let's not b****r it up for him straight away...

[brumtb]

I ran one of the 0-4-2s for years without the traction tyres.

it probably wasn't pretty but it ran better than the original without any problems but it was on code 100 track.

 

Tony

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

You get a lot of those in these parts too.

 

Apparently there is a topical cream for treating strines

 

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

Going back to the chassis and your grooved wheels. Look on Peters spares to see if you can get a set of non-traction tyred replacements (I'm guessing that this chassis has only got elastic bands on one of the driving wheel sets?) so the other axle should be available as a spare. It will either be a straight swap, or while need the wheels pulling off the axle and put onto the existing axle.....

 

Go carefully and it will be ok.

 

Good work by the way sir!

 

Andy G

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But it's the axle with the gear. Not straightforward? In the interests of keeping things moving, wouldn't replacement tyres be a better bet?

 

58 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

He's just got it working. Let's not b****r it up for him straight away...

 

56 minutes ago, brumtb said:

I ran one of the 0-4-2s for years without the traction tyres.

it probably wasn't pretty but it ran better than the original without any problems but it was on code 100 track.

 

Tony

 

Works fine.  I'm leaving well alone.

 

Don't immediately see the problem with points, but I'll worry about that when I have some that work.

[runs as required]

11 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Apparently there is a topical cream for treating strines

Ugh!

Strines was where the most feared teachers at New Mills school lived when I were a lad.

The nicer ones lived further into the hills - in the Wash and Chapel en le Frith. 

 

PS

Wot's gone wrong with those WNR points?  I'm sure I once saw them working !

Is it just a bit of fettling? In which case HTH in the New Year...

dh

 

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, runs as required said:

PS

Wot's gone wrong with those WNR points?  I'm sure I once saw them working !

Is it just a bit of fettling? In which case HTH in the New Year...

dh

 

 

Yes, they did, but not very well or for very long!

 

I concluded that the use of glued chairs on wooden sleepers was not a success, and that 3 of the 5 turnouts (the chaired bullhead ones) needed re-laying.

[Hroth]

12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Don't immediately see the problem with points

 

Completely Pointless.... 

 

The problem is similar to early motor cars with skinny wheels which sometimes got caught in street tramway tracks, with unamusing results.

 

Some cars had trackwidths to the traditional cart dimensions, the Ford Model T was a particular victim of this tendancy, with a track width of 56 inches and so could get both wheels caught in a tramway.  Missing traction tyres work in a similar manner, with the loco getting caught and trying to go the wrong way, a particular problem with finescale track.  Given the problem you're having with WNR points, they might even tear the rails off their chairs...

 

Of course, this made Model Ts ideal candidates for conversion into railmotors!

 

 

 

 

[runs as required]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

Completely Pointless.... 

Quote

The problem is similar to early motor cars with skinny wheels which sometimes got caught in street tramway tracks, with unamusing results.

 

unamusing?

My grandchildren used to laugh uproariously for hours on end at the Keystone Cops antics with Model Ts and trains

 

Quote

Some cars had trackwidths to the traditional cart dimensions, the Ford Model T was a particular victim of this tendancy, with a track width of 56 inches and so could get both wheels caught in a tramway.

This made Model Ts ideal candidates for conversion into railmotors!

 

 

can't see 'owt wrong with this!

Shurely more a virtue. What would Colonel Stevens have turned to?

  dh

 

edit:

thinking more about this ... without dipping into Wiki, didn't the Irish do some rather rustic adaptations of Model Ts into rail motors on their various gauges before becoming the cockpit of invention that lead to the application of DMUs to British Rail?

Edited December 31, 2019 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Completely Pointless.... 

 

The problem is similar to early motor cars with skinny wheels which sometimes got caught in street tramway tracks, with unamusing results.

 

Some cars had trackwidths to the traditional cart dimensions, the Ford Model T was a particular victim of this tendancy, with a track width of 56 inches and so could get both wheels caught in a tramway.  Missing traction tyres work in a similar manner, with the loco getting caught and trying to go the wrong way, a particular problem with finescale track.  Given the problem you're having with WNR points, they might even tear the rails off their chairs...

 

Of course, this made Model Ts ideal candidates for conversion into railmotors!

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, runs as required said:

 

unamusing?

My grandchildren used to laugh uproariously for hours on end at the Keystone Cops antics with Model Ts and trains

 

 

can't see anything wrong with this!

Shurely more a virtue. What would Colonel Stevens have turned to?

  dh

 

A cautionary tale ....

 

[henkholland]

On 30/01/2016 at 20:24, Edwardian said:

Castle Aching is, of course, fictional, and those familiar with the fair county of Norfolk will realise that it is a combination of the names Castle Acre and Castle Rising.  If the layout ever extends to the next station up the line, the passenger will find himself at Flitching (Flitcham and Docking).

 

So, now, there is not much to report, as yet.  Work on the village is underway.  A row of cottage backs were largely completed last year.  These are to go towards the back of the layout and, so, are built at 90% of 4mm scale.  I have just completed a second structure, at about HO, and these two elements will form the entrance to Bailey Street.

The cottage backs are based loosely upon/inspired by, a similar row in Castle Acre, where they, like their miniature counterparts, abut the old castle gateway.  The build chiefly used Scalescenes Aged Red-Brick, Flint and Pantiles.  The right-hand structure is freelance.  The rear brick-faced part of the structure used Mixed Brick from Wordsworth, and the long flint elevation used a scaled photograph of cottages in Castle Acre.  The pantiles are again from Scalescenes and are found in their excellent Row of Cottages kit.     

 

 

 

 

Beautiful Henk , is this 00?

[runs as required]

Interesting that the tramlines in Genevieve include that central slot for the LT pick-up in the posh bits of central London.

Down in Sarf London and up by Kings Cross trams were once more using their their trolley poles. 

But is this technology along to the ‘new’ Waterloo bridge actually  ‘post Grouping’?

dh

[henkholland]

918 pages impressive I have a lot to read.

Nice modelling work and a lot of history.

Thanks Henk

[mullie]

Those buildings are excellent, just need a layout to go with them.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, runs as required said:

My grandchildren used to laugh uproariously for hours on end at the Keystone Cops antics with Model Ts and trains

 

Thats ok, its perfectly reasonable for that sort of thing to happen to the Keystone Cops!

 

In reality, it wouldn't be so funny, though I expect that in the real world, its like young ladies being tied to railway tracks...

 

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

A cautionary tale ....

 

Nowadays, all the traffic they passed through is "classic" too!

 

 

Just thinking, at this very moment, over a third of the world is in 2020.

We've some catching up to do!

 

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, henkholland said:

918 pages impressive I have a lot to read.

Nice modelling work and a lot of history.

Thanks Henk

 

Thank you.

 

And good luck.

 

Don't take too much time away from your beautiful 2mm scale model of Richmond; one of my favourite stations (and my local cinema!).

 

As you know, there is a very good 4mm scale model at the Museum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

Just thinking, at this very moment, over a third of the world is in 2020.

We've some catching up to do!

You can run as fast as you like but you'll never catch us up!

[Edwardian]

Well, another year will begin hereabouts in less than an hour.

 

On a personal note, thank you all for making CA an interesting and unfailingly kind and courteous place; I hope to see you all regularly throughout the coming year. For me 2019 had its high points, but also its devastating loss, and I shall not be sorry to see the back of it.  As we brace ourselves to begin the cycle yet again, we give thanks to have made it thus far and garner our little store of strength and hope for the future.

 

Best wishes to all for 2020.

 

    

 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

On 31/12/2019 at 09:53, brumtb said:

I ran one of the 0-4-2s for years without the traction tyres.

it probably wasn't pretty but it ran better than the original without any problems but it was on code 100 track.

 

Tony

 

So have I, on the old 0-4-2 chassis those tires were an absolute disaster given that breed's awful pick up characteristics. And the first thing I do with that any Hornby 0-6-0 chassis that has them is to chop those confounded traction tires off immediately, and I've never had a problem with them running through points - the problems occurred before I took the tires off as they caused all sorts of pick up loss.  As for the efficacy of the tire aiding traction I find the chassis functions just as well without them but if the engine is tender driven I leave them on because the pick up is coming from the locomotive's wheels which don't have traction tires anyway.     

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

Well, another year will begin hereabouts in less than an hour.

 

On a personal note, thank you all for making CA an interesting and unfailingly kind and courteous place; I hope to see you all regularly throughout the coming year. For me 2019 had its high points, but also its devastating loss, and I shall not be sorry to see the back of it.  As we brace ourselves to begin the cycle yet again, we give thanks to have made it thus far and garner our little store of strength and hope for the future.

 

Best wishes to all for 2020.