Nearholmer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) The interesting bit about that is the pair of iron bracket thingamabobs under the frame, which look as if they are there to carry girders, possibly for use as load-spreaders/out-riggers under the frame of the crane itself - they seem to be retained during transit by giant pins. I reckon that the form would be to uncouple the match-wagon, slide the girders part-way out, then use the crane itself to lift them as close as possible to the desired positions, where timber cribs would already have been erected to take them. On that CS crane, you can see the sockets that the load-spreaders/outriggers would slide into. Even now, cranes often carry loads of good-quality timber with them for load-spreading, and a 'classic' crane, especially one without built-in outriggers, would need to cart half a forest around with it, even for quite light/close lifts. there might also be jacks to go under the ends of the outriggers, but they may have preferred to use timber all the way, because if it is going to fail it gives warning and does so gracefully (then the crane falls over!). Edited January 22, 2020 by Nearholmer 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 36 minutes ago, webbcompound said: I see no-one has mentioned the proposed Oxford Rail pilchard wagon. A bit of a specialist traffic IMHO, unless you are modelling the lines up to London from Cornwall. Still, not as specialist as that other traffic which required special wagons: the tadpole trade. You would think that would come from East Anglia, but it was the GWR that provided the wagons. Or have I got this wrong? Going round in the usual CA loop, this takes us back to Stanhope Forbes, nephew of Watkin's nemesis and younger brother of the man who electrified the Brighton. As a member of the Newlyn School, he painted the odd pilchard: Wikimedia Commons. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 Looking at the GE van, from what has been said it is a 20th century beast which is a shame as I need a GE van to bring Suffolk, (Norfolk ?), barley for brewing to Traeth Mawr and at my current progress of building I will not get onto wagons for a very long time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) If some enterprising manufacturer produced the Holden van, would that be close enough to the Great Western pre-Iron Mink wood Mink to kill two birds with one stone? Differences on a postcard, please... Edited January 22, 2020 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, ChrisN said: Looking at the GE van, from what has been said it is a 20th century beast which is a shame as I need a GE van to bring Suffolk, (Norfolk ?), barley for brewing to Traeth Mawr and at my current progress of building I will not get onto wagons for a very long time. It is a design introduced in 1903, but revised in 1909/10, reducing the length from 19'3" to 19' (to standardise with the GN and GC standard van sizes, a consequence of closer working following the failed merger attempt). It is the design most likely to last wel into grouping, if not nationalisation. So, although it won't help you, Chris, the wagon may or may not be suitable for Edwardian modellers, if the 1mm difference worries them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) I'd think the WNR would only have a hand crane..... The Highland made do that way until a 15tonner became available at knocked down rate due to a failed order.. Andy g edit: The Mike Models do a cast kit for a MR type crane with a roll out counterbalance which is perfect for mounting on a home made chassis.... Edited January 22, 2020 by uax6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 From memory (sizing up a possible conversion of the David Geen kit for the GW van) the Holden GE effort is a different length and has the bracing running the other way. Too much work for a viable conversion in the end. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Regularity said: It is a design introduced in 1903, but revised in 1909/10, reducing the length from 19'3" to 19' (to standardise with the GN and GC standard van sizes, a consequence of closer working following the failed merger attempt). It is the design most likely to last wel into grouping, if not nationalisation. So, although it won't help you, Chris, the wagon may or may not be suitable for Edwardian modellers, if the 1mm difference worries them. Keep up Simon! Interestingly, the D&S kit doesn't appear to distinguish between the two in the destruction sheet. Mine comes up a little short! 19 minutes ago, ChrisN said: Looking at the GE van, from what has been said it is a 20th century beast which is a shame as I need a GE van to bring Suffolk, (Norfolk ?), barley for brewing to Traeth Mawr and at my current progress of building I will not get onto wagons for a very long time. 15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: If some enterprising manufacturer produced the Holden van, would that be close enough to the Great Western pre-Iron Mink wood Mink to kill two birds with one stone? Differences on a postcard, please... I have not needed to make a close comparison, but I seem to recall there is a dimensional difference, though don't recall off-hand, I think the GER version is taller. D&S made a kit, and Jonathan might know if one is obtainable. Alternatively you could have a West Norfolk van!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Quote D&S made a kit, and Jonathan might know if one is obtainable. Sadly that's one of the ones which went to the Black Hole of Poole and will almost certainly never reappear. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 It would have to be a van of 1895 vintage, so what was the WNR using then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ChrisN said: It would have to be a van of 1895 vintage, so what was the WNR using then? I have sketched out an outside framed covered wagon, so not too dissimilar from the GWR and GER examples under discussion. I would do enough to make them distinct, of course, but very much in the same phase of evolution, though the WNR would probably have wooden underframes for wagons built to its designs c.1880-1895. Here is the GE one EDIT: When I build a WNR covered wagon, I'll do one for you, too, if you'd be prepared to run a fictional wagon. That way, if you do gain a GER van in due course, you can alternate, putting the WNR one away when Serious Visitors come round. BTW, the picture above shows post 1902 livery, so you want the small lettering. Edited January 22, 2020 by Edwardian 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Edwardian said: I have sketched out an outside framed covered wagon, so not too dissimilar from the GWR and GER examples under discussion. I would do enough to make them distinct, of course, but very much in the same phase of evolution, though the WNR would probably have wooden underframes for wagons built to its designs c.1880-1895. Here is the GE one EDIT: When I build a WNR covered wagon, I'll do one for you, too, if you'd be prepared to run a fictional wagon. That way, if you do gain a GER van in due course, you can alternate, putting the WNR one away when Serious Visitors come round. BTW, the picture above shows post 1902 livery, so you want the small lettering. Thank you, that would be brilliant! I will be running a LBSCR train from Oak Hill, which although would have a slightly out of date saloon coach, has a fictitious family from a fictitious starting point so a fictitious wagon is well within bounds. I have three Cambrian Saloon coaches, (Two Firsts and one Third), that are drawn and should be first on my Silhouette Cutter when I get some time. I did wonder if you would want one. I would supply all the parts. I would not offer at the moment to make one for you as nothing is getting finished at the moment. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, ChrisN said: Thank you, that would be brilliant! I will be running a LBSCR train from Oak Hill, which although would have a slightly out of date saloon coach, has a fictitious family from a fictitious starting point so a fictitious wagon is well within bounds. I have three Cambrian Saloon coaches, (Two Firsts and one Third), that are drawn and should be first on my Silhouette Cutter when I get some time. I did wonder if you would want one. I would supply all the parts. I would not offer at the moment to make one for you as nothing is getting finished at the moment. Why, most certainly, thanks, Chris. A visit from Cambrian cousins would always be welcome. I expect a First suitable for a well-to-do family taking a longer journey would be best. I need to commission some WNR wagon transfers, so this is a good excuse to get on with that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 How about a turnip or carrot as the illiteracy mark? Andy G 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, uax6 said: How about a turnip or carrot as the illiteracy mark? As far as I'm aware the Great Eastern didn't actually use a swede. Given the patterns of East Anglian settlement, perhaps a Dane? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 But they were known as swedies.... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: As far as I'm aware the Great Eastern didn't actually use a swede. Given the patterns of East Anglian settlement, perhaps a Dane? Other breeds of dog are also available... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Regularity said: Other breeds of dog are also available... Our Chairman has been known to take an interest in Terriers. For myself, if forced, it would have to be a Scottie or Bulldog. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Dodo? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 Sugar Beet, it be only 13 mile from Castle Acre , a bit more on the Wissington light railway via KL.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 While you may choose to have malt from the eastern counties it need not be so. Warminster Maltings claim to be the oldest working maltings in the country producing since 1855. Slaisbury plain seems a likely growing area. However perhaps the most likely source for Treath Mawr might be from the Shropshire plain. Ditherington Flax Mill at Shrewsbury was converted to Malting in the late 1880s. It is currently being rescued as one of the first Iron framed buildings forerunner of skyscrappers. No doubt in early Victorian times there would have been a lot of local Maltings and Barley grown fairly locally before railways made it easier to move stuff around although ships may well have carried it to small ports. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Donw said: While you may choose to have malt from the eastern counties it need not be so. Warminster Maltings claim to be the oldest working maltings in the country producing since 1855. Slaisbury plain seems a likely growing area. However perhaps the most likely source for Treath Mawr might be from the Shropshire plain. Ditherington Flax Mill at Shrewsbury was converted to Malting in the late 1880s. It is currently being rescued as one of the first Iron framed buildings forerunner of skyscrappers. No doubt in early Victorian times there would have been a lot of local Maltings and Barley grown fairly locally before railways made it easier to move stuff around although ships may well have carried it to small ports. Don But the army started taking over Salisbury plain from 1898 now owning 150Square miles of it.. Edited January 22, 2020 by TheQ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 42 minutes ago, Donw said: While you may choose to have malt from the eastern counties it need not be so. Warminster Maltings claim to be the oldest working maltings in the country producing since 1855. Slaisbury plain seems a likely growing area. However perhaps the most likely source for Treath Mawr might be from the Shropshire plain. Ditherington Flax Mill at Shrewsbury was converted to Malting in the late 1880s. It is currently being rescued as one of the first Iron framed buildings forerunner of skyscrappers. No doubt in early Victorian times there would have been a lot of local Maltings and Barley grown fairly locally before railways made it easier to move stuff around although ships may well have carried it to small ports. Don Flagrant touting for trade there, Don 37 minutes ago, TheQ said: But the army started taking over Salisbury plain from 1898 now owning 150Square miles of it.. Perhaps shrapnel adds body to the brew. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Perhaps shrapnel adds body to the brew. Only if they leave the pieces in the field until harvesting time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted January 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Compound2632 said: If some enterprising manufacturer produced the Holden van, would that be close enough to the Great Western pre-Iron Mink wood Mink to kill two birds with one stone? Differences on a postcard, please... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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