Castle Aching

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

Page 1014 - my task is complete ........ 

[Nearholmer]

I’m supposed to be working, but it so happens that my shelf of electrical books contains a couple of old ones with sections about various quack treatments.

 

Herewith an extract from an otherwise entirely respectable textbook c1902.

 

The uses of the electrodes is, I think, best left to the imagination.

 

 

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Keep a very close eye on your daughter/granddaughter if she is approached by a dubious-looking elderly Scotsman.

 

I interpreted the group as being his father and mother-in-law, his wife and daughter.  He's just heard about lockdown and can't bear the thought of being confined together with them for at least the next six weeks.  Especially with the in-laws....

 

Lunchtime!!!

[Donw]

My sister was given electro shock treatment for Bell's Palsy. I think she was about nine. It worked not because of any beneficial effect of the electricity but because she spent every minute  afterwards straining to get her muscles to work to produce some sort of twitch to avoid futher torture. 

 

I also knew someone who had been given electric shock treament for mental problems. I t left them with a determination to avoid Doctors at all cost and certainly not to disclose anything that could lead to further treatment.

 

Such babrbarous behavior should never have been tolerated.

 

Don

[Hroth]

Electro shock treatment for matters involving the brain in the manner used in the past is something that should never be used again.

 

Mild electrical treatment is still practiced today, called transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) and used for pain relief.  Go on a popular auction site and look for "tens units" and you will find a plethora of dodgy electronic devices.  They're even advertised on digital TV by washed up sports stars...

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/transcutaneous-electrical-nerve-stimulation-tens/

 

 

I've a couple of Victorian/Edwardian electrical machines, in nice mahogany cases.  One has a big horsehsoe magnet and a handle to wind electrical coils through the magnetic field at the end of the horseshoe.  It works quite well, and gives a considerable tingle even now.  It must have been stronger when new.  The other is a more advanced affair, with a built in wet-cell battery, a "buzzer" to create a pseudo-AC current and tapped transformers to vary it.  As the internal battery is now well past giving any power, I once tried it with an AA battery.  OW!  Definitely not for use!

 

 

[Northroader]

You’ll only end up talking about DCC, let’s not go there, eh?

[ChrisN]

Electric Shock Treatment, Electro-convulsive Therapy is still used for the treatment of depression.  It has to be severe and long standing with other treatments.  It seems to work as well.

 

Deep brain stimulation is completely different and is an expanding field.  Only low voltages are used and one of the latest uses is to combat Parkinsons.  Unfortunately as I have retired I am no longer able to access the scientific papers that are being written about it.

[Nearholmer]

If you look at the small print list of complaints that it is said to alleviate, you will see that the “medical” uses of electricity dealt with in my old text book are very definitely in the realms of quackery, rather than misguided, and cruel, attempts at real cures.

 

Of course, being an engineering book, it is more concerned with how to wire things up than whether or not they do the patients any good or not.

[Hroth]

53 minutes ago, Northroader said:

You’ll only end up talking about DCC, let’s not go there, eh?

 

If we must....

 

I suppose the illustration is of F9 (Safety Valve), does F16 do the "Firemans Breakfast" sound?

 

One of the more inappropriate uses of electrical stimulation was by the mid-19th Century French physician Duchenne de Boulogne, who produced a series of photographs to illustrate his book "The Mechanism of Human Facial Expression".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchenne_de_Boulogne

 

 

It must also be recognised that Duchenne did pioneer important work in more acceptable neurological fields...

 

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

Electro shock treatment for matters involving the brain in the manner used in the past is something that should never be used again.

Do you speak out of specialist medical knowledge (including but not limited to, experience of treatment which you don't have to divulge at all) or is that simply a personal opinion?

 

Taking the phrase "in the manner used in the past", I wholeheartedly agree, but according to some psychiatrists I know, it is an effective treatment (and only used when nothing else has worked) but they are admittedly slightly uneasy about it (those who are very uneasy about it won't do it) because no one really knows why or how it actually works.

 

We can argue about interpretation of history, even the best use of facts, but arguing against evidence is like insisting that the world is flat.

Or banana shaped.

(Not sure quite how the world cam to be shaped like an early series GWR diesel car, but never mind...)

[Donw]

57 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Do you speak out of specialist medical knowledge (including but not limited to, experience of treatment which you don't have to divulge at all) or is that simply a personal opinion?

 

Taking the phrase "in the manner used in the past", I wholeheartedly agree, but according to some psychiatrists I know, it is an effective treatment (and only used when nothing else has worked) but they are admittedly slightly uneasy about it (those who are very uneasy about it won't do it) because no one really knows why or how it actually works.

 

We can argue about interpretation of history, even the best use of facts, but arguing against evidence is like insisting that the world is flat.

Or banana shaped.

(Not sure quite how the world cam to be shaped like an early series GWR diesel car, but never mind...)

 

It may not be personal experience but I do believe my Sister's account as we visted daily.. I do not believe anyone has the right to give such treament to a young child who cannot give or refuse consent ( the parents probably can but do you accept the advice of a doctor or listen to your child).  Much the same could be said of those suffering from Mental problems.  I do wonder how many of those doctors had experienced the treatment themselves.

It is an odd world where Doctors can make such descisions on behalf of others but we deny sane rational adults suffering terminal diseases to end their suffering a little early.

 

Don

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Do you speak out of specialist medical knowledge (including but not limited to, experience of treatment which you don't have to divulge at all) or is that simply a personal opinion?

 

Taking the phrase "in the manner used in the past", I wholeheartedly agree, but according to some psychiatrists I know, it is an effective treatment (and only used when nothing else has worked) but they are admittedly slightly uneasy about it (those who are very uneasy about it won't do it) because no one really knows why or how it actually works.

 

We can argue about interpretation of history, even the best use of facts, but arguing against evidence is like insisting that the world is flat.

Or banana shaped.

(Not sure quite how the world cam to be shaped like an early series GWR diesel car, but never mind...)

 

Its a personal opinion, based on media reports on what was (allegedly) done in the past.  As I've no knowledge of current practice, I tried to make clear that I was not referring to it.  The comments made about the modern use of ECT by ChrisN were interesting and I'm glad I wasn't more sweeping!

 

A banana-shaped world?  I suppose that is a modification of the profile of a flat earth.  However, if the profile is curled up, everything would pool in the middle, whilst in a curved down situation, everything would dribble off the edges even MORE rapidly...

 

 

[CKPR]

4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Electric Shock Treatment, Electro-convulsive Therapy is still used for the treatment of depression.  It has to be severe and long standing with other treatments.  It seems to work as well.

A former research supervisor of mine, and leading expert on memory disorders, was of the view that ECT 'worked '  because of the side effect of severe and disabling amnesia. As Regularity noted, we are basically none the wiser about the effects of running electricity through the human body than we were in pre-grouping times.

[Regularity]

43 minutes ago, Hroth said:

A banana-shaped world?

Reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[Nearholmer]

16 minutes ago, CKPR said:

we are basically none the wiser about the effects of running electricity through the human body than we were in pre-grouping times.

Except that there is now a fairly exact understanding of the currents sufficient to cause fatality, gained through some truly appalling tests conducted in the 1940s.

[jcredfer]

Shocking stories, to be sure...

 

I have to wonder how many currents have been used to cause the fatalities, perhaps some of the stories have Amp lie fied the truth of such re-volting consequences, that the public had to be insulated from the backward EMF {empty mind forums} which  the topic induces.  The Mods might allow a little flex, but will cable messages to any who add resistance to their circuits.

 

Ohm y-God?  Did I type all that, I need to get some rest and recharge my batteries...    

 

Julian

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by jcredfer

[monkeysarefun]

4 hours ago, Regularity said:

I wholeheartedly agree, but according to some psychiatrists I know, it is an effective treatment (and only used when nothing else has worked) but they are admittedly slightly uneasy about it (those who are very uneasy about it won't do it) because no one really knows why or how it actually works.

 

I see that you're talking about current practices here.

 

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

 

 

 

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

Ahhhh....

 

 

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

53 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Ahhhh....

 

 

We will never know what explanation was given behind that theory, but it strikes me as just as sound a basis for many ideas nowadays!

[TT-Pete]

12 hours ago, Regularity said:

Anyone wanting to see a phrenologist needs to have their head examined...

 

I always chuckle to myself whenever I see one of those old porcelain phrenology heads in a bric-a-brac shop as they always remind me of Terry Pratchett's concept of retrophrenology...

 

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9181317-retrophrenology-it-works-like-this-phrenology-as-everyone-knows-is

[Regularity]

From Facebook.

[robmcg]

19 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

....

 

Now we're back in the unknown territory of unstructured workday "free-time", what little genuine work that can be done will be done and dusted by about 10am, and we'll be looking for something to occupy ourselves with.  We'll soon be past Page 1014, mark my words!!! 

 

Who mumbled something about an antipathetic supernatural entity making work for idle hands, eh?  

 

 

 

No!  Never! 

We must trudge forward through the swirling fog of uncertainty, onwards to the verdant sun-lit uplands of truth, honesty, and virtue, raising high on the summit the flag of perfect verisimilitude. 

 

Nothing less will do!

 

That's what I do.

 

Otherwise known as messing about with a computer...  Forgive me for my excitement. Two Hornby 4003 'Lode Star' models have arrived in NZ with my name on the packages.  Cleared customs too...

Deliverance is at hand.  Even though they probably were not meant be delivered by the Post Office from London to NZ, not being essential items, they HAVE been.....  so who knows.  The Post Office appears ro run on rules which bear little resemblance to their stated guidelines.  They still have to make the last 400 miles to my house.

 

Forgive me if I appear too glib. We are in lockdown and it appears to have worked well in our isolated islands, at no greater cost than our economic future..    I do feel sorry for those of you in the UK and other places where things have been much worse.

 

Back to models with passing relationship to stated guidelines. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by robmcg
foolishness, phrenological subliminal memory burp

[ikks]

On 13/04/2020 at 16:28, Hroth said:

 

Methinks 'tis the ... ---- ... Village Of The Damned!*

 

 

 

 

What IS this thing about enumerating vocal groups?  I'd suggest you check The Sixteen**...

 

 

Get counting!!!

 

 

* As Hollywood would have it.  Anyone seen golden-eyed, fairheaded children with intense stares hanging around?

 

** When they started, there were 16 singers, more or less, depending on number of parts and vocal doubling requirements, "specialising" in the late medieval and renaissance repertoire. As time went by, they've acquired their own Orchestra*** and enough singers who have been in The Sixteen to enable them to move up the eras.

 

*** Strings, natural trumpets, hard-stick timpani, 1/2 keyed oboes and bassoons, and five continuo instruments! (Harp, Theorbo, Bass viol, Harpsichord and Chamber Organ)

 

Loved it!!

 

Mike

[Annie]

Just spoke with my lovely Scottish neighbours over the fence this evening as I made a very rare expedition to the letterbox at the end of the drive. (The sun! the sun! it burns....!  Actually the sun just set so I'm being silly.)

Mr Scottish had been involved in a motor accident some months ago through no fault of his own and it's been a long road back to being able to do simple things like take a walk around the garden or even being able to stand on his feet unaided.  Anyway he was signed off by his doctors as being fine to go back to work again and a week later our government announced the level 4 lockdown here so he was sent home for the duration.  Mrs Scottish is of course delighted since she was worried her husband might get the virus with going back to work.

But typical Sods Law.  Months of working on getting fit and well again to go back to work and barely getting his feet under his desk and he's sent back home again.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Annie
fumble brain

[Hroth]

Quote

22 hours ago, Regularity said:

Anyone wanting to see a phrenologist needs to have their head examined...

 

Then there was the similar expression "You ought to have your bumps felt", though that seems to have fallen out of use, it might be misconstrued nowadays.

 

10 hours ago, TT-Pete said:

I always chuckle to myself whenever I see one of those old porcelain phrenology heads in a bric-a-brac shop as they always remind me of Terry Pratchett's concept of retrophrenology...

 

Funnily, I've just read through that part of Men At Arms. 

 

"He picked up the mallet again.

'Now, what were we going for today? Decisiveness, yes?'

'Yes. Well, no. Maybe.'

'Right.' Zorgo took aim. 'This,' he said with absolute truth, 'won't hurt a bit.'"

Terry Pratchett. Men at Arms

 

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

No!  Never! 

We must trudge forward through the swirling fog of uncertainty, onwards to the verdant sun-lit uplands of truth, honesty, and virtue, raising high on the summit the flag of perfect verisimilitude. 

 

I thought sun-lit uplands were always "broad".  Verdant is fine, but you've always got to have "broad" too... 

 

Is THAT the time???  Scrambled eggs for brekky, I think....