Castle Aching

[sem34090]

1 minute ago, Hroth said:

 

And, if you wish, you can get one for a very reasonable sum from Oxford Rail.  No idea how accurate ORs model is, but it's certainly very large!

 

And quite heavy...

[Northroader]

Sorry to spoil the conjecture, the headcold is for Victoria to Hastings by way of wivelsfield and polegate, I think it’s passing through Three Bridges? (That’s Mummy Bridge, Daddy Bridge, and Baby Bridge- ahh)

Stroudley did build his coaches with spoked wheels and no lower footboards, although the second coach a first, has gained Mansell wheels. It’s done out in an experimental livery.

 

[Edwardian]

18 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Sorry to spoil the conjecture, the headcold is for Victoria to Hastings by way of wivelsfield and polegate, I think it’s passing through Three Bridges? (That’s Mummy Bridge, Daddy Bridge, and Baby Bridge- ahh)

Stroudley did build his coaches with spoked wheels and no lower footboards, although the second coach a first, has gained Mansell wheels. It’s done out in an experimental livery.

 

 

You know, I almost did look up the headcodes rather than rely on the captions.

 

But just didn't take the trouble!

 

Thanks for the correction. 

 

Now, routes from West Norfolk to Hastings?

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

And, if you wish, you can get one for a very reasonable sum from Oxford Rail.  No idea how accurate ORs model is, but it's certainly very large!

 

 

Although I don't believe it myself there is a persistent tradition that it was developed by the GWR to fend off any competitive efforts by certain rivals ......... 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

You know, I almost did look up the headcodes rather than rely on the captions.

 

But just didn't take the trouble!

 

Thanks for the correction. 

 

Now, routes from West Norfolk to Hastings?

You naughty man, you've made me waste minutes with my Ian Allan Pre-Grouping Atlas...

 

1. GE main line then Tottenham & Hampstead, Kentish Town, Widened Lines (I thought about the East London Line but couldn't find a route that didn't need a reversal); or

 

2. M&GN to Peterborough, GN main line then Widened Lines; then

 

3. Snow Hill, Herne Hill and on to the SE&CR.

 

Highly improbable but what fun.

[Nearholmer]

ELR routes require a reversal at Liverpool Street.

 

To go down the Brighton Main, as per the picture, rather than the “wrong way” (SE&CR) to Hastings: as Malcom’s route, but continue from the T&HJ onto the NLR to Willesden Junction High Level, then onto the WLR/WLER and on to Clapham Junction, after which follow the normal route.

 

Mornington Crescent!

 

PS: this route is still available today, and can be enjoyed courtesy of London Overground.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Guy Rixon]

To reach the Brighton line from the north: whatever to GN main line; widened lines; turn left at St Pauls; London Bridge; East Croydon; and away. But I think WLER would be preferred because of congestion west of London Bridge. 

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

ELR routes require a reversal at Liverpool Street.

 

To go down the Brighton Main, as per the picture, rather than the “wrong way” (SE&CR) to Hastings: as Malcom’s route, but continue from the T&HJ onto the NLR to Willesden Junction High Level, then onto the WLR/WLER and on to Clapham Junction, after which follow the normal route.

 

Mornington Crescent!

 

PS: this route is still available today, and can be enjoyed courtesy of London Overground.

Of course, silly me. You can't go direct from Polegate to Stone Cross any more so you'd have to reverse at Eastbourne.

[Nearholmer]

Ah, I’ve just remembered a flaw with my route: there wasn’t always a T&HJ to NLR connection at Gospel Oak ...... there was a GER terminal platform and no through route until ????? I’m not sure when.

 

T&HJ - Midland to Widened Lines - Loughborough Junction - Tulse Hill - Streatham Common - East Croydon - onwards!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

I think all these tortuous routes are demonstrating is why the LNWR had something of a monopoly of through working from the north onto the Brighton!

[St Enodoc]

15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Ah, I’ve just remembered a flaw with my route: there wasn’t always a T&HJ to NLR connection at Gospel Oak ...... there was a GER terminal platform and no through route until ????? I’m not sure when.

 

T&HJ - Midland to Widened Lines - Loughborough Junction - Tulse Hill - Streatham Common - East Croydon - onwards!

I didn't know that about Gospel Oak.

 

If Leigham and Streatham Tunnels were blocked, you could also turn left at Tulse Hill, then Norwood Junction and down the Through, although St Reatham and Forntneaf would be better.

Edited April 24, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Nearholmer]

Yes, the connection at Gospel Oak was quite late; I think it might not have been put in until LMS days, possibly even as late as WW2.

[Edwardian]

Since, as Kevin makes plain,  we're clearly playing some version of Mornington Crescent, and so, given Guy's involvement, when we reach London, are we playing "the Strand Variation"?

 

Of course, once we get to Lonnon, I become a simple, straw-chewing yokel, unable to find his way, but before that happens, how about via:

 

1. WNR end-on junction with the GER at Magdalen Road

 

2. GER: Magdalen Road - Wisbech - March - Peterborough East

 

2. GER Peterborough East end-on junction with the LNWR (Nene Valley line) - Wansford - Market Harborough - Northampton - Roade Jnc. 

 

3. LNWR mainline to London?

 

Or, much more simply:

 

1. WNR end-on junction with the GER at Magdalen Road

 

2. GER: Magdalen Road - Ely - Cambridge - Bishop Stortford - London

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Ah, yes that helps a lot, because it’s plain sailing from Willesden Junction: The Route of The Sunny South Express.

 

You could come from Peterborough to the LNWR main line via Oundle and Blisworth too, I think.

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

Ah, yes that helps a lot, because it’s plain sailing from Willesden Junction: The Route of The Sunny South Express.

 

You could come from Peterborough to the LNWR main line via Oundle and Blisworth too, I think.

 

Yes, if diagonals are allowed, you certainly could!

[sem34090]

I'd certainly be worried if it went via Mornington Crescent!!!

 

Tube Gauge GNR Tank?!

[Edwardian]

In the news ... some baffling statements from the White House on a possible cure for coronavirus ...

 

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You could come from Peterborough to the LNWR main line via Oundle and Blisworth too, I think.

Yes, via Bridge Street station in Northampton then up the old branch line to Blisworth. This would (to avoid pedantry) mean travelling through Roade, but on the L&B main line rather the Northampton Loop, which would have involved a reversal at Northampton Castle.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

In the news ... some baffling statements from the White House on a possible cure for coronavirus ...

 

I must admit, when I heard the news about that, I did think, "Well, Mr. President, if you wish to volunteer for the first trials..."

[Nearholmer]

7 minutes ago, Regularity said:

which would have involved a reversal at Northampton Castle.

Not using the route Edwardian selected: he sent his carriage via Market Harborough to avoid a reversal.

 

Good cycling route now, the Northampton to Harborough line.

[Compound2632]

This LNWR hook-up casts an interesting light on the politics of the West Norfolk, hemmed in on the one hand by the Great Eastern and on the other by the M&GN as proxy for its parent companies - your enemy's enemy is your friend. I've really no idea how relations stood between the LNWR and the Great Eastern - it's hard to think of two major English companies that had less to do with each other. Was Peterborough their only meeting point? In London, they were rather orthogonal - the LNWR reaching the docks via its proxy, the North London.

 

BTW, I've not injected myself with bleach and have no plan to do so.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Compound2632

[Annie]

I read somewhere that things were a bit strained between the GER and the LNWR, but I can't remember where I read it now.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Annie said:

I read somewhere that things were a bit strained between the GER and the LNWR, but I can't remember where I read it now.

 

Well, back in the earlies the Eastern Counties was a Hudson line, so I doubt there was much goodwill from Euston then.

[Nearholmer]

48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I've really no idea how relations stood between the LNWR and the Great Eastern

 

Back to Gospel Oak. 

 

For some reason the NLR (=LNWR with a false beard and glasses) and the GER couldn't agree on a connection at this location.

 

My surmise is that it had something to do with access to the docks, where I think MR+GER may have been in strategic alliance with the MR to rival the LNWR+NLR, and/or to stifle the GER's ability to create goods depots further west ...... they created one at Tufnell Park, which probably put the wind up the LNWR.

 

But, it might also have related to suburban passenger traffic to The City, where the NLR presumably wanted to avoid any leakage of traffic from Broad Street to Liverpool Street. The traffic from the northern suburbs to The City was gigantic before the tramways electrified and the Tube started, so well worth fighting over.

 

It would be worth delving into this LNWR-GER thing further though, not forgetting that the two shared Fenchuch Street as their city terminus for a while, and that the NLR had a whopping great goods station at Haydon Square, accessed from the approach to Fenchurch Street.

 

BTW, worth zooming-in on the Gospel Oak area on the 1:1056 OS maps. its one of those mega-interesting places, with railways going in all directions, and the great big MR loco shed at Kentish Town. The view from Parliament Hill Fields is interesting now; it must have been blooming fascinating in 1900.

 

Blow me! Some enterprising aviator has taken a picture of the very view i had in mind!  https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW016656

Edited April 24, 2020 by Nearholmer

[wagonman]

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

BTW, I've not injected myself with bleach and have no plan to do so.

 

But, if it were to catch on among the Trumpistas, it could solve a number of America's problems at one fell swoop!