Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

Sugar (Monroe) I come from this musical family. My mother is a piano teacher and my father was a conductor.
Daphne/Joe (Curtis) Where did he conduct?
Sugar On the Baltimore and Ohio.

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Hroth said:

The May illustration on my wall calender is full of period ambience!  Its captioned as "Steam Trains in Victoria Station, London, c. 1887"

 

 

 

 

I rather like the little saddle tank loco with the Willesden headboard.

 

 

LNWR I presume.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

LNWR I presume.

 

Looks a bit primitive for 1887 LNWR - and note the flared top to the dome. More likely some Craven antique? No reason why a Brighton train shouldn't be running to Willesden.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Compound2632

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Looks a bit primitive for 1887 LNWR - and note the flared top to the dome. More likely some Craven antique? No reason why a Brighton train shouldn't be running to Willesden.

 

The whole train looks a bit primitive!

 

I've no more information about the photo other than the captioning.  I'd think that the dating is about right, it looks like a "medium speed" dry platephotograph given the exposure and the blurred figure(s) by the Willesden loco.

[Nearholmer]

I don’t think the LBSCR used destination boards (doubtless I will be proven wrong) and I think the LNWR operated the service from Willesden.

 

Cracking picture whatever; the carriage stock is wonderful.

[Annie]

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

apologies to Annie and others who see single-wheelers as proper.

And so you should apologise Rob.  Single-wheelers are proper, - very proper.

 

I come here to get away from American plumber's nightmares on wheels since the things infest the Trainz forums.

There's no doubting your considerable talent, but this example of it is very much misplaced.

[Edwardian]

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Looks a bit primitive for 1887 LNWR - and note the flared top to the dome. More likely some Craven antique? No reason why a Brighton train shouldn't be running to Willesden.

 

No, it's an LNWR service. It's not a Craven design, but not a LNWR one either.  IIRC it's an absorbed engine. 

[Phil Traxson]

20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's the bit they do really reliably well, in my experience...

We've just had 6 weeks in Porthmadog with only one days rain. From July until November last year I racked up 4,000 miles on my motorbike around the coastal area between Bangor and Aberystwyth and being an old f--t (70+) I don't ride in the wet anymore. Mind you if you get more than 10 miles from the coast it tends to be a different climate!

Festiniog Railway by Phil Traxson, on Flickr

 

Aberdaron (2) by Phil Traxson, on Flickr

Phil T. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[BlueLightning]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

The May illustration on my wall calender is full of period ambience!  Its captioned as "Steam Trains in Victoria Station, London, c. 1887"

 

 

You can see where Hornby got the idea for their four-wheeled coach and, standing in front of it, where Dapol got the idea for the Terrier. All you need do to upgrade the Hornby coach would be to position a row of paint cans on the roof...

 

I rather like the little saddle tank loco with the Willesden headboard.

 

 

59 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

LNWR I presume.

 

52 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Looks a bit primitive for 1887 LNWR - and note the flared top to the dome. More likely some Craven antique? No reason why a Brighton train shouldn't be running to Willesden.

 

The loco in the photo has been identified elsewhere. It is LNWR, although I think absorbed rather than built. I know someone that knows, so I'll give them a poke.

 

The rest is LBSC, the loco on the middle line being a D1 rather than a Terrier

 

Gary

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, BlueLightning said:

 

 

 

The loco in the photo has been identified elsewhere. It is LNWR, although I think absorbed rather than built. I know someone that knows, so I'll give them a poke.

 

The rest is LBSC, the loco on the middle line being a D1 rather than a Terrier

 

Gary

 

I was about to add that it looked like a D1 to me, not a Terrier.  It looks too big for a Terrier and I can only make out rods on the lead pairs of wheels.  The trailing wheels on the Ds were relatively large, so can be misleading.  The giveaway is the relative size of the splasher/sandbox, indicative of much larger wheels than the 4' of the Terriers.

 

Anyway, I was still distracted by checking up on the little LNWR saddle tank. It's clearly not a Special Tank (0-6-0), it is smaller than that and a different shape.

 

Hopefully your friend will confirm it is an ex-Vale of Clwyd Railway Sharp Stewart 0-4-2.  These date from the late '50s, so, yes, they are rather primitive for the Nor' Western by 1887, if, indeed, it is 1887; one of the three VoCR saddle tanks was noted at Willesden shed in 1878, but withdrawn in 1883. 

 

The locos are contemporary with the Sharp 0-4-2 saddle tank built for the Llanidloes & Newtown Railway, subsequently absorbed by Cambrian Railways.  Thus, later cab aside, I think the Cambrian one gives a good guide to how the LNWR ones would have appeared, even down to the flared top to the dome, seated behind the tank. 

 

Here is a lovely O Gauge model ....

 

 

Images by Gavin Liddiard and David Faulkner. For personal non-commercial use only.

All Rights Reserved © 2015 Barrowmore Model Railway Group

[BlueLightning]

I think you may be right James, I recall it being an 0-4-2 so that could well be it!

 

Gary

[BlueLightning]

In fact you are indeed correct!

 

"Scene at Victoria station in London about 1880 with an LNWR train for Willesden in the platform. The engine is an 0-4-2 saddle tank, one of three built by Sharp Stewart for the Vale of Clwyd Railway: Clwyd and Elwy, built in 1858, and Galtfaenan, built in August 1859. This is probably the latter, as a note in the English Mechanic in September 1878 states that it was then at Willesden shed. The Vale of Clwyd was absorbed by the LNWR in 1867 and the three engines became LNWR 1686-8 but were put on the duplicate list in June the following year, Galtfaenan becoming 1204. In December 1871 it was restored to the capital list as 1168, it lost its name in August 1875, was put on the duplicate list again in July 1879 and was scrapped in June 1883. The photo was first published about 1920 in Loco News & Railway Contractor. There is a small drawing of a sister engine in its original state in Locomotive Magazine, October 1913 page 233 fig 3, and a photo of the same engine (with added cab) in Cambrian Railways Album by C. C. Green (Ian Allan, 1977), page 14."

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

The loco in the photo has been identified elsewhere. It is LNWR, although I think absorbed rather than built. I know someone that knows, so I'll give them a poke.

 

The rest is LBSC, the loco on the middle line being a D1 rather than a Terrier

 

Gary

 

I stand corrected. 

 

I thought that rather smart and modern looking machine was a bit big for a Terrier but didn't like to stick my neck out and say so.

[webbcompound]

As the West Norfolk was earlier being confused with a vaguely similarly named US railroad I thought it might be time for the Company to join the big league and streamline one of its' blue ribbon passenger trains. Mainly because I saw this streamlined 2-4-0 being tested on the Chemins de fer del'Etat 1884-5 and thought it ticked all the boxes.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by webbcompound

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

The rest is LBSC, the loco on the middle line being a D1 rather than a Terrier

 

Thanks for the correction, not being familiar with LBSC locos other than what a Terrier roughly looks like, that's what it looked like to me!

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, webbcompound said:

As the West Norfolk was earlier being confused with a vaguely similarly named US railroad I thought it might be time for the Company to join the big league and streamline one of its' blue ribbon passenger trains. Mainly because I saw this streamlined 2-4-0 being tested on the Chemins de fer del'Etat 1884-5 and thought it ticked all the boxes.

 

 

The French for steampunk is, unsurprisingly, le steampunk.

[sem34090]

1 hour ago, webbcompound said:

 

 

Gazelle wants her wheels back...

[Donw]

Whenever I play a CD by Alison Kraus and Union Station I hear the first notes of the Blue Grass sounds and it immediately conjours up an image of an elderly ten wheeler gently rolling along with a short train of boxcars somewhere in the Smokey Mountains.

  (I must not start any new railway ideas......I must not.....)

 

The SS 0-4-2st on the Cambrian one  called Plynlimion features nicely on some photos of the Kerry Branch. The cabs added to the various SS locos were usually just extended up from the originals some have the original beading still showing at the join.

 

Don

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, webbcompound said:

As the West Norfolk was earlier being confused with a vaguely similarly named US railroad I thought it might be time for the Company to join the big league and streamline one of its' blue ribbon passenger trains. Mainly because I saw this streamlined 2-4-0 being tested on the Chemins de fer del'Etat 1884-5 and thought it ticked all the boxes.

 

 

And everyone thought that Collett streamlining was odd.... 

 

[Nearholmer]

That was the genius of Stroudley: design a really good loco; now build lots and lots of locos exactly the same as the first one, only bigger, and with different wheel arrangements, and many with tenders instead of tanks.

 

It took years for other railways to catch on to the idea.

 

[brianusa]

I dunno!  Surely Messrs. Dean & Churchward had similar ideas?

     Brian.

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

In fact you are indeed correct!

 

"Scene at Victoria station in London about 1880 with an LNWR train for Willesden in the platform. The engine is an 0-4-2 saddle tank, one of three built by Sharp Stewart for the Vale of Clwyd Railway: Clwyd and Elwy, built in 1858, and Galtfaenan, built in August 1859. This is probably the latter, as a note in the English Mechanic in September 1878 states that it was then at Willesden shed. The Vale of Clwyd was absorbed by the LNWR in 1867 and the three engines became LNWR 1686-8 but were put on the duplicate list in June the following year, Galtfaenan becoming 1204. In December 1871 it was restored to the capital list as 1168, it lost its name in August 1875, was put on the duplicate list again in July 1879 and was scrapped in June 1883. The photo was first published about 1920 in Loco News & Railway Contractor. There is a small drawing of a sister engine in its original state in Locomotive Magazine, October 1913 page 233 fig 3, and a photo of the same engine (with added cab) in Cambrian Railways Album by C. C. Green (Ian Allan, 1977), page 14."

 

 

I loved the way the LNWR extended into Wales,  and such as the Crumlin viaduct, and all...

 

I just thought you ought to know that. Even if not very good at Norfolk church history.

 

In earnest humility,

 

yours etc

[BlueLightning]

10 minutes ago, brianusa said:

I dunno!  Surely Messrs. Dean & Churchward had similar ideas?

     Brian.

 

Although Dean didn't take over at Swindon until 7 years after Stroudley started standardising at Brighton, so I think the original comment still stands

 

Gary

[Compound2632]

On the other hand, John Ramsbottom at Crewe had turned out 943 identical locomotives over the period 1858-1872. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Compound2632
Date range corrected

[Hroth]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

On the other hand, John Ramsbottom at Crewe had turned out 943 identical locomotives over the period 1858-1862. 

 

Hope they were all numbered correctly.....