Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Knuckles said:

Thanks for the shout out.

 

Will just clarify I still have several liters of resin and around 13 of alcohol so good to do 3D printing still.

 

The chassis I'll be making Shapeways only as they turn out better but the body kits n details still fine to print here.  Have covered most the Cambrian and Furness variants for the loco's in question.

 

As to 7mm prints on the Photon, due to small bed the bodies likely would have to be chopped in half but could have a look to see what's viable if anyone is interested here.  Tenders will fit anyway.

 

So far I chopped up one of my Pacific bodyshells and printed it in two halves.  Join line wasn't bad but does need a dab of filler as expected.

 

I would love to see one of your 2-4-0s printed and built in 7mm.

 

 

[Edwardian]

Breaking news ....

 

A new smartphone app. to identify Covid-19 carriers is rolled out on the Isle of Wight .... 

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Breaking news ....

 

A new smartphone app. to identify Covid-19 carriers is rolled out on the Isle of Wight .... 

 

 

She looks too dry, he must have used the PIN....

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Hroth

[Nearholmer]

Anyone see an item on the BBC news website about a teenager going out for his lockdown exercise dressed, very convincingly, as a C17th plague doctor, terrifying the locals (some of ‘em anyway).

 

Naturally enough, this is in a small village in Norfolk.

[Knuckles]

Maybe it was Alan Partridge

[Hroth]

40 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Anyone see an item on the BBC news website about a teenager going out for his lockdown exercise dressed, very convincingly, as a C17th plague doctor, terrifying the locals (some of ‘em anyway).

 

Naturally enough, this is in a small village in Norfolk.

 

Perfectly reasonable PPE, mask, gloves and protective outer clothing.  It seems that some WANT to be terrified!

 

If he had been going to doors and ringing the bell...

 

[Nearholmer]

25 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Maybe it was Alan Partridge

The sight of him approaching in beige slacks, let alone a beak and broad-brimmed hat, would terrify me.

[Edwardian]

I am making Preparations for WNR stock.

 

On order are number plates for the full stud of WNR locomotives from Narrow Planet. These are oval with raised brass numerals on a red field.

 

 

Ian MacCormac of this parish has very kindly designed a superb set of transfers for coach and loco lettering.

 

 

The lettering is designed to offer a contrast with the GER style, just as the green and cream livery is intended to contrast with varnished teak, and the green locos to contrast with the blue, ochre and crimson. The font is inspired by that used by the Great Western, so is prototypical, but foreign, from a Norfolk perspective. 

 

As I have mentioned, transfers for goods stock are being planned.  We discussed fonts and I gratefully adopted the suggestion of option j.  Now we need to work out what lettering we need.  This brings me to the question du jour, on which I would be grateful for learned input.

 

Tare weights, which will be rendered in the traditional small italic lettering, need to be determined. We are aiming to match 6, 8, and 10 ton wagons, with a small amount of variation up and down so they aren’t all the same. 

 

So the question is, can parishioners kindly suggest a range of suitable tare weights?

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Edwardian

[relaxinghobby]

Lettering by hand, after all they did it that way back in the day.

 

 

 

Wagon lettering using a mapping pen or dipping pen with a bottle of India Ink. Can neatness be achieved and some thing looking like to transfers be achieved ?

Does not look like it at my wagon works.

Some sort of lettering workshop is needed.

The wagon took a dive to the floor when I was taking these photos.

You can see where the white metal W irons where glued onto the sole-bars. UHU so a weakish bond but easy to feel the piece back into exactly the same place.

 

It's an old style general goods wagon cut down from a Triang 7 planker. One side lettered for the WMR the Wyngemore Mineral Railway an imaginary mineral branch somewhere between Lands End and John o'Groats. While the other side is lettered for an even more imaginary railway the Ank-Morpok and Spoor Plains Hygienic Railway of the Terry Pratchet Disk World. The script says; No magic left in this wagon overnight. A necessary precaution taken in the sidings near Ank-Morpok after dark.

 

 

Later after repair we catch up with it again in the exchange sidings at Arkwright’s Yard on it's way back to the strange lands beyond the Fiddle yard down the small tunnel, exit right, back to the Disk World.

The loco is a Romford wheeled Electrotren 2-4-0 of the Isle of Wight railways and a popular export model around the world.

Edited May 5, 2020 by relaxinghobby

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Tare weights, which will be rendered in the traditional small italic lettering, need to be determined. We are aiming to match 6, 8, and 10 ton wagons, with a small amount of variation up and down so they aren’t all the same. 

 

So the question is, can parishioners kindly suggest a range of suitable tare weights?

My 10 ton GER 5 plank wagons have the Tare Weight 5-10-1 which I 'borrowed' from a photo on the Basilica Fields website so if the wagon in your photo is 5-5-0 then you could pretty much use any weight numbers in between those two weights with a clear conscience.

 

This is actually a 9 ton wagon, they were upgraded to 10 tons later .

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Annie
fumble brain and added a picture

[wagonman]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Anyone see an item on the BBC news website about a teenager going out for his lockdown exercise dressed, very convincingly, as a C17th plague doctor, terrifying the locals (some of ‘em anyway).

 

Naturally enough, this is in a small village in Norfolk.

 

NFN

[Compound2632]

Midland D299, 8 ton capacity, around 5.0.0; GW 4-plank opens, 10 ton capacity, around 5.5.0.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Compound2632

[wagonman]

Tare weights for typical 5-plank 8 ton wagons:

 

pre 1887 spec 4-12 to 4-18 

pre 1887 converted  5-2 to 5-12

post 1887  5-10 to 5-16 (eg Gloucester design)

 

These are ball-park figures for wood framed wagons with single set of brakes – there may be outliers but these should be credible.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Do we need to consider the type of construction?

 

I have based WNR open merchandise wagon development on the GER's, which, for our period, went like this:

 

Diagram      Built                     No. of Planks          Load Tonnage            Under frame construction              Example Tare Weights                        -

16                  1885/7-1893               5                                 9                              wooden                                                            5-10-1

17                  1893-1903                   5                               10                              steel                                                                  5-5-0, 5-6-0

 

Assuming Wagonman's post 1887 8-ton wagons to be wooden underframe Private Owners, at 5-10 to 5-16, they follow the pattern that wooden under-frame wagons are a little heavier than steel u/f,  with the 10-ton GW example Compound cites as around 5-5-0. 

 

The WNR opens would largely be

 

4 and 5 plank (to same height and length) with wooden underframes.  Perhaps rated 8 tons 

5 plank (to same height and length) with steel underframes. Perhaps rated 9 tons.

 

Only the MR 8-ton D299 (a smaller vehicle than the GW 4 and 5-planks, perhaps) is something of an outlier, with wooden u/f and around 5-0-0.

 

Otherwise, I think I can see where this is going.  Both the Gloucester 1887 v. contemporary GWR and the GER comparisons suggests tares around 5-10 for the wooden u/f vehicles, and around 5-5 for similar-sized wagons with steel u/fs. 

 

Further and better and more precise suggestions welcome. 

[Compound2632]

Some LNWR wagon tare weights, from the diagrams in LNWR Wagons Vol. 1:

 

D1 1-plank, 7 ton capacity - 9" deep: 4.4.2

D2 2-plank, 7 ton capacity - 20" deep: 4.6.1

- pretty much identical wagons apart from height of sides, the extra material for which accounts for the additional 0.1.3.

D4 4-plank, 7 ton capacity - 36" deep: 5.6.3

D9 4-plank, 10 ton capacity - 36" deep: 5.17.1

- basically the same wagon, the D9 having larger journals than the D4 which probably makes only a small difference in weight; both 6" longer than D1/D2 (and 13" longer than Midland D299). The D1, D2, and D4 all had simple single-shoe Scotch brakes; D9 had conventional double-shoe brakes on one side only. I suspect that that accounts for most of the extra half-ton.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Compound2632
Nineteenth-century spelling changed - breaks => brakes.

[uax6]

Note that the LNWR wagons above do, of course, have their solebars flitched with a metal plate along their length (afair), so that will add weight as well. Whether the flitch is a different thickness dependant on the carrying capacity I have no idea. Also the arrangement of break gear will add weight. I can't help as my wagon books are at home, and I'm in the box...

 

As I guessed, it appears that timber wagons are heavier that steel u/framed ones, another reason to move over to them.

 

As fascinating as tare weights are, I want to see what the Dodo illiterate symbol looks like..... ;-)

 

Andy G

 

 

[wagonman]

My first stab at this was based on looking at a number of photos. Digging into some of my spreadsheets I find that, for example, Swindon coal factor John Toomer had a batch of wagons converted from BG by Gloucester in 1872 which, while ostensibly identical, had a range of tares between 4-7-0 and 4-14-0.  How to account for a difference of 7cwt between two supposedly identical wagons? 

 

 

 

[uax6]

Hand made forgings for strappings and bolts perhaps?

 

The fat lazy bloke still asleep in the wagon when it was weighed?

 

Andy G

Edited May 5, 2020 by uax6

[Nearholmer]

Variable density of timber.

[Edwardian]

11 minutes ago, wagonman said:

My first stab at this was based on looking at a number of photos. Digging into some of my spreadsheets I find that, for example, Swindon coal factor John Toomer had a batch of wagons converted from BG by Gloucester in 1872 which, while ostensibly identical, had a range of tares between 4-7-0 and 4-14-0.  How to account for a difference of 7cwt between two supposedly identical wagons? 

 

 

 

 

Given that, perhaps a range of weights with a 1cwt difference would be safe enough!

 

Perhaps parishioners could help with this provisional table?

 

Short 5-plank1860s (wooden u/f)        6 TONS                               4-4-0, 4-4-1, 4-4-2, 4-4-3

1 plank (wooden u/f)                              8 TONS                               4-9-0, 4-9-1, 4-9-2, 4-9-3, 4-10-0, 4-10-1, 4-10-2, 4-10-3

3 plank (wooden u/f)                              8 TONS                               4-12-0, 4-12-1, 4-12-2, 4-12-3

4/5-plank (wooden u/f)                          8 TONS, 9 TONS                5-10-1, 5-10-2, 5-10-3, 5-11-0, 5-11-1, 5-11-2, 15-11-3

                                                                                                               5-14-0, 5-14-1, 5-14-2, 15-14-3, 15-15-0, 5-15-1, 5-15-2, 15-14-3

5-plank (steel u/f)                                   10 TONS                             5-5-0, 5-5-1, 5-5-2, 5-5-3, 5-6-0, 5-6-1, 5-6-2, 5-6-3

6-7-plank (steel u/f)                                10 TONS                             5-7-0, 5-7-1, 5-7-2, 5-7-3

Covered wagon (wooden u/f)                 8 TONS                             6-5-0, 6-5-1, 6-5-2, 6-5-3

[wagonman]

I think your 6 tonner may be a bit heavy...

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by wagonman

[Compound2632]

How long are these wagons? 

 

2 hours ago, uax6 said:

Note that the LNWR wagons above do, of course, have their solebars flitched with a metal plate along their length (afair), so that will add weight as well. Whether the flitch is a different thickness dependant on the carrying capacity I have no idea. Also the arrangement of break gear will add weight. I can't help as my wagon books are at home, and I'm in the box...

 

Some close reading and picture-gazing in LNWR Wagons Vol. 1 indicates D1, D2, and D4 did not have flitch plates but D9 did, along with the later D84 opens, and D12/D13 timber trucks. The flitch plates were made of ⅜” thick wrought iron. A quick calculation shows that the pair of flitch plates accounts for 3 cwt 3 qtr of the 7 cwt 2 qtr difference between the D9 and D4, the balance being in the larger journals and more complex brake gear.

 

LNWR wagons had some untypical constructional features, especially around the transoms and middle bearers.

  

44 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Variable density of timber.

 

A table of timber density shows some very broad ranges alongside nominal values for particular types. Specifications of the time were typically for best English or American oak for structural components and Baltic pine for sheeting and floor boards. The difference in timber is noticeable in photos of wagons under construction.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Compound2632
Added thickness of LNWR flitch plates.

[Edwardian]

30 minutes ago, wagonman said:

I think your 6 tonner may be a bit heavy...

 

 

Excellent, that's closer to what I have in mind to anything I'd found with a tare weight. 

 

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

How long are these wagons? 

 

 

 

For convenience, I have based the WNR 5-planks upon the Cambrian Kits 15' Gloucester 5-plank

 

Some will be 4-planks (but, like the GER, the height is the same as the 5-plank) and some will be 5-plank, all on the 15' Gloucester wooden u/f

 

Others will use the Cambrian 5-plank body on a 15' steel channel u/f.

[Dave John]

Hm Wagonman, that wagon is quite early and the wheelsets look a bit on the skinny side to me. Not much left on the brakeblocks either. Nice pic though. 

 

With regard to similar wagons being different weights you could loose a fair amount each time the wheelsets got tires turned. 

 

Just looked through some Caley wagons. Most of that table looks ok,  but D3 Wood underframe covered vans with doors both sides are coming in a bit heavier , 6.10.3 with a single brake. Earlier single door vans are about the mid 6 level, so not far off your suggestion. 

[uax6]

Well it is a 36 year old wagon...

 

It would be quite lovely to see that sort of Tare script on the WNR vehicles, it has a certain elegance that the block scripts just don't have. A small railway having more care for its fleet perhaps?

 

Andy G