Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

7 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

There are other arrangements with the ejector and brake valve separate.

Yes, a point I made yesterday.

 

Models of the RVR:

 

There were enough projected LRs in East Sussex to keep a modeller busy for a lifetime, so what about something on the never-built line towards Rye, for instance?

 

That way, you could have high plausibility, without being prey to the worst nit pickers.

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

Having looked at the photos on the previous page again I think I might change my opinion.

The vertical pipe looks to be too far from the cab front to go along horizontally and then bend upwards.

There will be a gap between the tanks and the boiler which, on Brighton locos, is sheeted over.

 

In the Brighton ones, the boiler cladding is bent out and rivetted to the tank top.  I had this debate on the project, suggesting that this rivetted strip should be painted in the same colour as the boiler, as with the preserved Boxhill. 

 

2 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

Perhaps the ejector is in this space under the sheeting ?  If so, then the vertical pipe will come out of a hole between the tank and boiler. 

 

Now, how much, if anything, of a gap you's find if you peeled back this strip, I wouldn't like to guess.

 

2 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

The curved pipe could be the steam supply and that would go through a similar hole.

That is the way I might do it.  Neat, even if it's wrong !

 

 

The brake valve which Hornby have modelled is quite large and obvious in the cab.  Did the K&ESR locos have something similar?  I can't see one looking at your photos.  Perhaps there is a smaller brake valve which is not so obvious?

 

Yes, in this point Hornby favours the A1X, giving all models a vac ejector, presumably of a later, SR, type.

 

I have no pictures of Bodiam's original RVR fittings. What they did is anyone's guess!

 

2 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

 

To try and make sense of this I consulted my old copy of  'Handbook for Railway Stem Locomotive Enginemen'.

It didn't help !  There are many variations of brake valves and ejectors.

Looking through, I think (but I could be wrong) that the later Terriers have a Dreadnought ejector and brake valve combined in a substantial lump. 

There are other arrangements with the ejector and brake valve separate.   Perhaps this is what the K&ESR had ?

 

Yes, the two could be separate here for all I know.

 

2 minutes ago, RodneyS said:

The later re-routing could have been the result of replacing the ejector and brake valve.

 

 

I'm not too sure that deciding where to put little bits of wire on a plastic model could be classified as 'useful'.

It is great fun though !

Rodney

 

 

[Edwardian]

8 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, a point I made yesterday.

 

The significance of which is now clear to me

 

Quote

Models of the RVR:

 

There were enough projected LRs in East Sussex to keep a modeller busy for a lifetime, so what about something on the never-built line towards Rye, for instance?

 

That way, you could have high plausibility, without being prey to the worst nit pickers.

 

My choice would be the Robersbridge & Pevensey Light Railway, with the line to the Brighton station practically under the castle walls at Pevensey. 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Edwardian
spelling!

[Nearholmer]

It would be a cracker, but I’ve always had my doubts about the feasibility of it, because there is a good, steep lump of the Weald just where you wouldn’t want it.

 

Instant gradient profile courtesy of cycling route finder.

 

I think I’ve got the LRO for either that one or another that was supposed to penetrate the same area - will try to find it later.

 

It could include Mad Jack Fuller’s follies, which would be good.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

49 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

It would be a cracker, but I’ve always had my doubts about the feasibility of it, because there is a good, steep lump of the Weald just where you wouldn’t want it.

 

Instant gradient profile courtesy of cycling route finder.

 

I think I’ve got the LRO for either that one or another that was supposed to penetrate the same area - will try to find it later.

 

It could include Mad Jack Fuller’s follies, which would be good.

 

Yes, I think this one would never have come off.  But real enough for the world of Castle Aching.

 

Sometime ago I ordered Ilfracombe Goods drawings from the Colonel Stephen's Society.  This was for Barnstaple Town. Due to postage or something to do with the pricing, it made sense to pad out the order and I ended up with some K&ESR drawings. 

 

I've just dug them out.  Turns out I have a couple of Bodiam drawings.  The post 1935 rebuild one shows the pipework in quo. 

 

 

Notice that the draftsman seems to have suffered an attack of the Maskelynes.

 

The spectacles are too far apart, a fault that was traced ultimately back to a Maskelyne drawing.  I have reason to know this!  Measure twice, cut once.  Measure the real thing, not a drawing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Edwardian
spelling!

[Compound2632]

There's always a tendency in that type of drawing for the "artist" to draw what he thinks should be there, not what actually was there - also they're good at not giving the projection (in this case plan view) that would actually resolve the point of difficulty.

 

On the other hand, a works GA shows how the draughtsman intended things should go...

 

In this specific case, I think we can be confident there never was a drawing!

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

There's always a tendency in that type of drawing for the "artist" to draw what he thinks should be there, not what actually was there - also they're good at not giving the projection (in this case plan view) that would actually resolve the point of difficulty.

 

On the other hand, a works GA shows how the draughtsman intended things should go...

 

In this specific case, I think we can be confident there never was a drawing!

 

Yes, I often feel that Maskelyne was not above "improving" the engines he drew! 

 

The spectacles are not the only error.  I would earnestly press anyone building a Terrier in any scale to have reference to the Binney drawings for preference

[Donw]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, a point I made yesterday.

 

Models of the RVR:

 

There were enough projected LRs in East Sussex to keep a modeller busy for a lifetime, so what about something on the never-built line towards Rye, for instance?

 

That way, you could have high plausibility, without being prey to the worst nit pickers.

 

I dont think James needs to worr about nit pickers. He sets himself high standards and knows his stuff. He is far better about all

these detils than I am.

I did wonder whether that pipe ran out of sight under the top but not through the actual tank. But conjecture on my part would not have helped much. The only reason I can see for it coming so far forward is to clear an opening spectacle glass.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, Donw said:

 

I dont think James needs to worr about nit pickers. He sets himself high standards and knows his stuff. He is far better about all

these detils than I am.

I did wonder whether that pipe ran out of sight under the top but not through the actual tank. But conjecture on my part would not have helped much. The only reason I can see for it coming so far forward is to clear an opening spectacle glass.

 

Don

 

Thanks, Don.

 

Yes, I have wondered about the relationship of those pipes to the tank.

 

You make a good point about the spectacles. 

[Northroader]

A bit late to the pipefitters ball, I’m afraid. (SWMBO thinks the loft needs tidying and I spend too much time on the web, help!) As built, the Terriers had steam brakes only, you can see the cylinder tucked at the rear under the cab floor in James old drawing. (This is vintage, you can pick out a belt drive off the back axle to the vane speedometer, with a pipe up to the manometer in the back corner of the cab, and I think hardly any of the class were fitted with this.) The RCTS history says that Brighton works fitted vacuum brakes before selling the two to the Rother Valley, so you can’t blame some yokel at Rolvenden. However, I fancy Brighton were new to fitting vac brakes, and the arrangement for the exhaust was changed on later jobs to the more usual way of up the chimney. I’m just guessing that the steam brake was retained on Terriers, and the automatic brake, either compressed air or vacuum, was applied to just the train pipe?? You then would have a train pipe running the length of the engine between the flexible couplings, in the Brighton case tucked neatly away out of sight. This would be teed off under the cab, with a pipe rising up at the LH side of the boiler up to under the ejector unit pictured in Annie’s picture, the connection bottom left. A steam feed pipe was also needed, as Kevin says, tapped off any convenient valve  at the top of the backhead, doubtful if pipe came all the way from the dome as in the diagram. Mind, as they were condensing engines, they were shy of injectors, which don’t work on hot feed water, but had feed pumps, so there were less steam valves to tap off on the backhead. (The feed pumps could get airlocks, and the petcock bleed valve was placed near the pump, with hairraising stories of traincrew falling off the engine when leaving the footplate to fix this) Sorry, being called to dinner, will finish this evening.

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Northroader said:

so you can’t blame some yokel at Rolvenden. 

 

I wasn't calling out the Rolvenden fitter, rather, praising his astute assessment of the situation. But it seems he is to be deprived of the credit.

[Annie]

6 minutes ago, Northroader said:

SWMBO thinks the loft needs tidying and I spend too much time on the web, help!

I could never understand partners/significant others who can't leave their menfolk in peace and feel that they must give them a job to do.  I've always been of the persuasion that if one feels something needs doing then do it yourself so it gets done properly.  Dire emergencies apart if I couldn't do something myself then it most probably didn't need doing anyway. 

[Nearholmer]

11 minutes ago, Annie said:

I could never understand partners/significant others who can't leave their menfolk in peace and feel that they must give them a job to do. 

Neither could I, but that hasn’t altered a thing.

 

Re: Bodiam.

 

There is a very good photo of the loco at Brighton works, ready for delivery to the RVR, taken by the Bennett Brothers. Unfortunately, I gave the album of their photos away about three months ago!

[Edwardian]

34 minutes ago, Annie said:

I could never understand partners/significant others who can't leave their menfolk in peace and feel that they must give them a job to do.  

 

If only there were more like you, Annie.

[wagonman]

Re 'nagging' wives: "I said I'll fix those shelves. You don't have to keep reminding me every six months..."

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, wagonman said:

Re 'nagging' wives: "I said I'll fix those shelves. You don't have to keep reminding me every six months..."

 

Lucky fella...........     6 months.......   luxury!!   

 

Julian

 

[Northroader]

Rightyho, looking at the vac ejector in Annie’s picture, you’ll see a valve with perforations on the RHS, which is the brake valve, which the driver uses to allow air to leak into the train pipe and bring the brakes on.  There’ll be a gauge on the spectacle plate to show the driver what the pressure, (or lack of it) is in the train pipe. Top LH, there’s a steam valve handle which is used to take the brakes off.  There are two ejector cones, tucked away behind the two large cap nuts halfway up on the left, so that they’re pointing away from the side you’re looking at, pointing out the rear of the unit, aimed at passing out through the spectacle plate pointing forwards. The large ejector comes on when the train is at standstill with the brakes on and minimal vacuum, to get the brakes off quick, then the small ejector comes on once the vacuum has been created, as there’s always a small amount of leakage in the system, and this needs to be counteracted. So, what happens to the mixed jet of steam and air whooshing out at the back of the ejector, and this must be the curved pipe James is asking about. Now because it is a jet it can be quite noisy, so normally you see a large pipe running forward to the smokebox, to connect to a ring around the blast pipe, like a second blower, and you’ll have experienced the sound made when the brakes come off doing it this way, noticeable but quite refined. Old Austrian locos with vac brakes didn’t go down this route, but instead had a pair of conical mufflers on the cab roof, which look quite intriguing. Now, just idle speculation on my part, but I fancy the Brighton Mk.1 version on the Rother Valley engines just ran the curved pipe down into the water tank, cooling the steam down a bit in a big loop, then pointed back up vertically in the other pipe to blow out in a more restrained manner?

[Northroader]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

I could never understand partners/significant others who can't leave their menfolk in peace and feel that they must give them a job to do.  I've always been of the persuasion that if one feels something needs doing then do it yourself so it gets done properly.  Dire emergencies apart if I couldn't do something myself then it most probably didn't need doing anyway. 

No, you misunderstand, she came in and started to vac up and tidy me workbench. I have to confess it is rather a mess, it just I get more involved in modelling than in tidying.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Northroader said:

started to vac up and tidy me workbench. 

 

Noooo!

[jcredfer]

21 minutes ago, Northroader said:

No, you misunderstand, she came in and started to vac up and tidy me workbench. I have to confess it is rather a mess, it just I get more involved in modelling than in tidying.

 

......................      "vac up and tidy me workspace" .....    full of ongoing projects, perhaps she might be less inclined to interrupt your plans, if you were to tidy hers, equally in the middle of their progress.  

 

Julian

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by jcredfer

[Annie]

My parents rarely had arguments, but an absolutely humdinger got sparked off when my Dad suggested to my Mum that it was about time she tidied up her sewing room.

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

No, you misunderstand, she came in and started to vac up and tidy me workbench. I have to confess it is rather a mess, it just I get more involved in modelling than in tidying.

 

Ah I quite understand if Marion wants to tidy up my room I have to rush around trying to do it first or I will never find anything. So I do get instructions when a clean up is long overdue. Usually 'if you don't  remove those magazines from the sideboard/worktop/armchair they will be in the bin'.

Don

 

PS. I see Julian and Anne's Dad like living dangerously. I liked my tea quite sweet but my mother thought having two spoonfulls of sugar 'rank greedyness' When I had started work and insisted having two spoonfulls my mother turned to my father and said 'tell him Ron' one is quite enough. My Dad looked rather sheepish in agreeing with me and admitted he quite liked sweet tea.  Mother seemed quite offended that he had never said so.  When married myself I understood that sometimes silence is the best course of action when your partner feels strongly about something.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Donw
adding a ps

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

Rightyho, looking at the vac ejector in Annie’s picture, you’ll see a valve with perforations on the RHS, which is the brake valve, which the driver uses to allow air to leak into the train pipe and bring the brakes on.  There’ll be a gauge on the spectacle plate to show the driver what the pressure, (or lack of it) is in the train pipe. Top LH, there’s a steam valve handle which is used to take the brakes off.  There are two ejector cones, tucked away behind the two large cap nuts halfway up on the left, so that they’re pointing away from the side you’re looking at, pointing out the rear of the unit, aimed at passing out through the spectacle plate pointing forwards. The large ejector comes on when the train is at standstill with the brakes on and minimal vacuum, to get the brakes off quick, then the small ejector comes on once the vacuum has been created, as there’s always a small amount of leakage in the system, and this needs to be counteracted. So, what happens to the mixed jet of steam and air whooshing out at the back of the ejector, and this must be the curved pipe James is asking about. Now because it is a jet it can be quite noisy, so normally you see a large pipe running forward to the smokebox, to connect to a ring around the blast pipe, like a second blower, and you’ll have experienced the sound made when the brakes come off doing it this way, noticeable but quite refined. Old Austrian locos with vac brakes didn’t go down this route, but instead had a pair of conical mufflers on the cab roof, which look quite intriguing. Now, just idle speculation on my part, but I fancy the Brighton Mk.1 version on the Rother Valley engines just ran the curved pipe down into the water tank, cooling the steam down a bit in a big loop, then pointed back up vertically in the other pipe to blow out in a more restrained manner?

 

Aha!

 

Good, so one pipe'll curve down the to tank top and the other will stick up out of it!

 

Thank you. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

No, you misunderstand, she came in and started to vac up and tidy me workbench. 

 

Surely that's worse?!?

 

You won't be able to find anything now it's tidy!

[sem34090]

It's always fatal when someone else 'tidies' one's workspace.

 

"You know that plastic stuff that was all over your desk?"

 

"Yes"

 

"I decided it was about time it was chucked - It's been there all week and didn't really look like anything worth keeping."

 

*'It' being the wagon kit I was working on at weekends because in the week there was this thing known as 'school'.*

 

"You've got space to work now."

[Nearholmer]

I’m afraid that I don’t ‘see’ the ‘one pipe diving into the tank and coming up again’ explanation, because the down-going pipe appears to have a valve in it.

 

The logical place to put a valve is on the inlet side, not the outlet.