runs as required Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) Only a few pages earlier you were all agreeing with James about the fascinating collisions of style during the years of hand-over between Dean and Churchward. Yet now you are all rubbishing those astonishing Krugers - as I (probably erroneously) recall* all the Krugers differed experimentally – even between wheel arrangements: the first had a leading bogie, subsequent ones a pony truck. Most extraordinarily for the (seemingly perpetually) Victorian image GWR - no one in Swindon gave a fig for their appearance! Not many Engineering Chiefs, right at the end of their illustrious careers, would give their plain-speaking blunt assistant free-rein to compare and test US and European thinking against time honoured Company practice in both boiler and engine design. I admire William Dean enormously for recognising train running in the new century called for radical re-thinking (compared to Collett tweaking the proven while the other Big Three and LT were facing forward into mid C20 changes.) Nevertheless Board Room directives about curved running plates and steps eventually levered Churchward into conforming. —— * There was a really interesting sequence of articles in “Backtrack” some years ago, on the detail evolution of those weird Krugers - against the emergence of the stalwart Aberdare class. Edited July 3, 2020 by runs as required stage 2 dementia ;-) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm 0-6-0 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Schooner said: ...? Obviously a practice run at getting the concept of ill-proportioned right for the design of the 2251 Class. I suspect that a special meeting of the Swindon Special Committee in Charge of Ugly (SSCCU) decided that there was a fine line between ill-proportion and actually permanently frightening everyone away from the GWR The Krugers were in a class of their own however. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm 0-6-0 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I might add, again at the chance of causing discussion, that I really do like the Dean 0-6-0 - just plain brisk efficiency written all over it. And to further inflame passions I like the 3Fs and 4Fs as well - really nice and stocky creatures. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) So did WNR Engineers never ever rig up any experimental trials of foreign (i.e. non Norfolk) ideas advocated by promising young apprentices? Edited July 3, 2020 by runs as required duplicated post - my rmweb connection read "error" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm 0-6-0 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, runs as required said: So did WNR Engineers never ever rig up any experimental trials of foreign (i.e. non Norfolk) ideas advocated by promising young apprentices? Thanks heavens you edited that. Only a couple of posts back we were discussing, albeit briefly, dementia in passing and then you started repeating yourself. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Agree since about 22.00 BST until a few hours ago, my rmweb connection read "error" while the rest of my Firefox tabs worked fine. Mystery ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, runs as required said: Agree since about 22.00 BST until a few hours ago, my rmweb connection read "error" while the rest of my Firefox tabs worked fine. Mystery ... Mine did that as well, but it was on all my browsers, assuming I’ve translated the time correct ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Updates on the status of the website are given on the RMWeb facebook page. It went down last night and this morning the Facebook page was indicating a reboot that might take all day. So, they've done well and we've got off lightly. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2020 20 hours ago, Edwardian said: Given reports of corn height in the agricultural districts, As high as an elephant's eye, I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2020 30 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Updates on the status of the website are given on the RMWeb facebook page. It went down last night and this morning the Facebook page was indicating a reboot that might take all day. So, they've done well and we've got off lightly. It was down when I got up and didn't reappear until well after my second glass of wine tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: As high as an elephant's eye, I believe. That’s only in Kansas, here it’s mostly Lima beans. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2020 Do they have elephants in Kansas, I thought the Indians native Americans had finished them off? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocor Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: As high as an elephant's eye, I believe. Also... Fish are jumpin' And the cotton is high. oops!, wrong song. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Northroader said: Do they have elephants in Kansas, I thought the Indians native Americans had finished them off? A certain P.T, Barnum would bring one through here maybe every decade. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 32 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: As high as an elephant's eye, I believe. 13 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: That’s only in Kansas, "We're not in Kansas anymore" 1 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: "We're not in Kansas anymore" Nebraska by the looks of it, possibly South Dakota ... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Northroader said: Do they have elephants in Kansas, I thought the Indians native Americans had finished them off? Well the Barnum And Bailey trains started in 1872 , I dont know whether they had elephants back then but it is quite likely that by Edwardian times the idea of an elephant being a big beast was well established and they would have been seen appeaing all over the county. I quite liked Edwardian's oblique reference. Don by the time I had checked when the tains started others had posted. Sometimes I feel as though I could just sit here and someone would post whateve I wanted to say sooner or later. Edited July 3, 2020 by Donw extra comments 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: "We're not in Kansas anymore" Actually those are probably “Rhodesian” ivory hunters who had the tables turned on the them, Botswana is also a possibility. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Donw said: Well the Barnum And Bailey trains started in 1872 , I dont know whether they had elephants back then but it is quite likely that by Edwardian times the idea of an elephant being a big beast was well established and they would have been seen appeaing all over the county. I quite liked Edwardian's oblique reference. Don The GWR had one of their Python CCTs specially strengthened to take elephants... 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 20 hours ago, rocor said: I did search the web for information on Tityos and the Beyer Goods, but ended up quite a bit later crawling out of a rabbit hole with questions not related to the broad gauge at all. Such as, why was James Holden, the Locomotive Superintendent of the GER from 1885 to 1907 designing a 0-4-0 tank locomotive for the GWR in 1901?. As an addendum to that question, why has Hornby been producing since 1978 a RTR model of a obscure one of a kind locomotive that only existed for 10 years in the early part of the 20th century?. All most peculiar!. Without wasting hours delving through my library... I think 101 was referred to as the 'Holden' tank because it used James Holden's patent design of oil burner (as applied to Petrolea et al). I doubt he had snuck back to Swindon for a bit of moonlightling. 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Aha! Back to turn of the century William Dean ... Did these get their name by hauling Barnum's Heffelumps around? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, wagonman said: The GWR had one of their Python CCTs specially strengthened to take elephants... Elephants being much heavier than pythons. Evidently there was sufficient traffic in the latter to justify specialised vehicles. My list of Midland passenger traffic rates in 1903 makes no specific mention of snakes but they're probably under "Monkeys, and such like small wild animals, loaded in crates or boxes, and carried in carriage trucks or other vehicles specially provided by the Company .. 6d per mile per truck." A rate for monkeys inside pythons isn't given. "Elephants, carried in covered carriage trucks ... 1s per mile per truck, whether the truck is specially strengthened or not." There were also concessionary rates for entertainers' equipment; I suppose pythons might come under that heading. 11 minutes ago, wagonman said: Without wasting hours delving through my library... I think 101 was referred to as the 'Holden' tank because it used James Holden's patent design of oil burner (as applied to Petrolea et al). I doubt he had snuck back to Swindon for a bit of moonlightling. That makes a great deal of sense. The chances of getting Wikipedia to believe it are nil, since there's so much nonsense about Holden being Dean's "Chief Engineer" at the time out there and Wikipedia works by consensus, not truth. 3 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, wagonman said: Python CCTs specially strengthened to take elephants. Thank the good lord the snakes weren’t big enough to need anything other than an ordinary strength wagon. 2 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: That’s only in Kansas According to Rogers and Hammerstein, its Oklahoma! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, runs as required said: Aha! Back to turn of the century William Dean ... Did these get their name by hauling Barnum's Heffelumps around? Reputedly yes but I dont knoow if there is definite documentation. Don 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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