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1 hour ago, drmditch said:

the women would have gone into service until they got married

In 1929 my grandmother, aged 14, found the conditions so awful when she was first sent into service that she climbed out of the skylight of her appalling attic room, across the tiles, and then climbed down the (thankfully rather solid cast iron!) down pipe, from some scary distance above the ground, then slept overnight in the nearby churchyard before catching the bus back to my great grandparents (born in 1890, and I actually knew then!) the next morning.

I have no rosy illusions about the past!

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8 hours ago, Regularity said:

So challenge it.

But there are some things that are simply commonly accepted, such as the payment of debts and rule of law, on which the whole of western society is built.

Or maybe we simply agree on a lot of issues?

It has nothing to do with payment of debts, etc.

 

I will be frank. I object to the continual insinuation that anyone who supports Boris Johnson, Tony Abbott or Donald Trump is a moron. That's all.

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1 hour ago, drmditch said:

 

Yes, that will do. Warfare with high-velocity rifles. 'Concentrating' civilian populations in war-zones. Mass-targeting of political opinions by the owners of the popular press. Large scale industrial unrest. Colonial oppression (although I do like Tsing-Tao beer.) No wonder the works of the not-quite-recently-deceased Mr Marx became so popular.

 

 

Politically significant horses No. 732: Anmer. I haven't been able to locate a repostable photo, so here's a relevant item of railway interest:

 

image.png.bd8f5d8fa35da731f3d34f0cf7a8ca3c.png

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1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

Rather embarrassingly the NSW government transport information website has a section labelled "Find a train station" so it appears to be official government policy here.

Auckland City New Zealand.

 

77Vtd0t.jpg

 

Wellington City New Zealand

 

rzxgrHn.jpg

Edited by Annie
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Of course railway station is the old correct.  However in the general sense of evolution it has evolved over the (recent) years into the contemporary train station.  If there wasn't evolution in any form, we would still be dragging our knuckles on the ground!  As much as I personally dislike TS, it will never be RS again!:fie:

       Brian.

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As far as I can observe those who say 'train station' do have their knuckles dragging on the ground.

 

Coming from a railway family as I do I have no intention of 'moving with the times' and making use of such a verbal aberration as 'train station'.

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39 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I will be frank. I object to the continual insinuation that anyone who supports Boris Johnson, Tony Abbott or Donald Trump is a moron. That's all.

Fair enough.
 

Well, Boris Johnson tried to call a new session of Parliament, and has shown contempt not only for Parliament but also the rule of law. I think that makes supporting him somewhat questionable, and him possibly a moron, but that may or may not extend to his supporters.

Unlike the USA, where the popular vote is cast in each state to direct their electoral college to vote for a particular candidate, in the UK, we supposedly vote for a local MP, who is usually a member of a party which, if it has a majority of seats in the House of Commons, will become the party of government with it’s leader as First Lord of the Treasury. Except in his own seat, people don’t actually vote for that leader.

you know all this, I know, but the distinctions are important, because...

...in both systems, there tends to be a fairly tribal pattern of voting, but the right or wrong leader can sway things one way or another. 
My personal feeling is that the UK electorate seems (as a single entity) to deliver quite sophisticated messages to the House of Commons, but the latter is incapable of grasping this. Thus:

2010: the Electorate was unhappy with Gordon Brown as PM, but didn’t want a Conservative government. Rather, it wanted a coalition between Labour and primarily the Liberals. Nick Clegg didn’t get this, and the Liberals were rounded upon at the next GE.

2015: the Electorate doesn’t like left-wing windbags, and Labour had chosen the “wrong” Milliband brother, so failed to capitalise on the punishment doled out to the Liberals, resulting in a Conservative majority that had he realised it was coming, I doubt David Cameron would have promised a referendum.

2017: the Electorate wanted a coalition to sort out EU withdrawal. Unfortunately, Maybot didn’t get this, and neither did Labour, thinking instead that they were building momentum towards a victory at the next GE.
2019: yet again, Labour was led by a left-wing windbag who had become to believe his own publicity, and they were deserted in droves.

Boris became PM because whoever was leading the Conservative party wasn’t Jeremy Corbyn. I don’t know of any Tory voters - which includes my parents who are lifelong Conservative Party supporters  - who don’t think him to be a self-aggrandising moron. They wish he, and most of his cabinet, would go, but they don’t see many decent alternatives in the parliamentary party.

I also have quite a few friends in the USA, and none of them voted for Trump. Unfortunately, some of them told me that they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for H. R. Clinton, either, do effectively let Trump in. They similarly think he is a self-aggrandising moron.

I have no real knowledge of Tony Abbot, but what little has been mentioned here is less than favourable.

 

I think that anyone supporting genuine free-market economics is not a moron, even though I have a different interpretation of the role and purpose of government to them. But it is possible to support that viewpoint, typified by the “small government” rhetoric of the USA Republican Party, whilst still accepting that its current flag-bearers are moronic buffoons.

 

I suppose I am saying that supporting these clowns, as people, is moronic. As supporters of current right-wing free-market parties, then their supporter are unfortunate as the leaders and flag bearers are deeply deficient in the humility and compassion required of a good leader, but just because the flag bearer is a moron, that doesn’t make them morons. 
 

Probably makes them embarrassed, though.

Edited by Regularity
I forgot to quote what I was replying to...
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When I said that the Edwardians were 20th Century, rather than Victorian I am bemused as to why it seems people thought that my implication was that this was necessarily a good thing. The 20th century is not particularly better than Victorian, just differently bad, but definitely more modern. We have invented new and wonderful methods of slaughter and slavery, and great wealth is still achieved by ignoring the welfare of those who create it for the wealthy. The reason we hark back to the railways of this time is merely that they somehow seem more stylish.

Edited by webbcompound
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8 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I suppose I am saying that supporting these clowns, as people, is moronic. As supporters of current right-wing free-market parties, then their supporter are unfortunate as the leaders and flag bearers are deeply deficient in the humility and compassion required of a good leader, but just because the flag bearer is a moron, that doesn’t make them morons.

 

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

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7 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Fair enough.
 

Well, Boris Johnson tried to call a new session of Parliament, and has shown contempt not only for Parliament but also the rule of law. I think that makes supporting him somewhat questionable, and him possibly a moron, but that may or may not extend to his supporters.

Unlike the USA, where the popular vote is cast in each state to direct their electoral college to vote for a particular candidate, in the UK, we supposedly vote for a local MP, who is usually a member of a party which, if it has a majority of seats in the House of Commons, will become the party of government with it’s leader as First Lord of the Treasury. Except in his own seat, people don’t actually vote for that leader.

you know all this, I know, but the distinctions are important, because...

...in both systems, there tends to be a fairly tribal pattern of voting, but the right or wrong leader can sway things one way or another. 
My personal feeling is that the UK electorate seems (as a single entity) to deliver quite sophisticated messages to the House of Commons, but the latter is incapable of grasping this. Thus:

2010: the Electorate was unhappy with Gordon Brown as PM, but didn’t want a Conservative government. Rather, it wanted a coalition between Labour and primarily the Liberals. Nick Clegg didn’t get this, and the Liberals were rounded upon at the next GE.

2015: the Electorate doesn’t like left-wing windbags, and Labour had chosen the “wrong” Milliband brother, so failed to capitalise on the punishment doled out to the Liberals, resulting in a Conservative majority that had he realised it was coming, I doubt David Cameron would have promised a referendum.

2017: the Electorate wanted a coalition to sort out EU withdrawal. Unfortunately, Maybot didn’t get this, and neither did Labour, thinking instead that they were building momentum towards a victory at the next GE.
2019: yet again, Labour was led by a left-wing windbag who had become to believe his own publicity, and they were deserted in droves.

Boris became PM because whoever was leading the Conservative party wasn’t Jeremy Corbyn. I don’t know of any Tory voters - which includes my parents who are lifelong Conservative Party supporters  - who don’t think him to be a self-aggrandising moron. They wish he, and most of his cabinet, would go, but they don’t see many decent alternatives in the parliamentary party.

I also have quite a few friends in the USA, and none of them voted for Trump. Unfortunately, some of them told me that they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for H. R. Clinton, either, do effectively let Trump in. They similarly think he is a self-aggrandising moron.

I have no real knowledge of Tony Abbot, but what little has been mentioned here is less than favourable.

 

I think that anyone supporting genuine free-market economics is not a moron, even though I have a different interpretation of the role and purpose of government to them. But it is possible to support that viewpoint, typified by the “small government” rhetoric of the USA Republican Party, whilst still accepting that its current flag-bearers are moronic buffoons.

 

I suppose I am saying that supporting these clowns, as people, is moronic. As supporters of current right-wing free-market parties, then their supporter are unfortunate as the leaders and flag bearers are deeply deficient in the humility and compassion required of a good leader, but just because the flag bearer is a moron, that doesn’t make them morons. 
 

Probably makes them embarrassed, though.

Thanks Simon. That is a well-reasoned post, even though I would not necessarily agree with all of your conclusions. One very salient point concerns the binary system (usually) for electing the US President. I am of the view that, for better or worse, in 2016 the ABHs (Anyone but Hillary) carried the day.

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23 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Simon. That is a well-reasoned post, even though I would not necessarily agree with all of your conclusions.

Luckily we live in a society where disagreement is tolerated, even encouraged. I love reasoned debate: I may find stronger arguments in favour of my point of view, or indeed have them shattered completely. Doesn’t matter: we live and learn.

I am also constantly amazed that not only do we break the forum rules about political discussions on this thread, but we demonstrate why the rules are not always necessary: if things get a bit heated, we have ways of signalling disquiet, and someone usually picks it up.

 

Quote

One very salient point concerns the binary system (usually) for electing the US President. I am of the view that, for better or worse, in 2016 the ABHs (Anyone but Hillary) carried the day.

 

Yes, very much so. She seems to generate visceral dislike in large swathes of the US. A late friend actually met her when she was First Lady, and had an hour or so in her company (nothing ribald, entirely legit), and told me that she was one of the warmest and most genuine people he had ever met, inside or outside of politics. (And boy, he had met some big-wigs in his time!) 

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Hi @St Enodoc,

There is possibly a liberal, anti-populist, anti-simplistic bias in the posts here that finds a focus in Trump and Boris (Tony Abbott's appearance is really a side-show).  I don't think either truly represent the views of many of those who voted for them and I most certainly would not characterise those who did as "morons".  I think Simon @Regularity sums things up well in considering voting patterns and votes against something or someone count as much as votes for.  One of the things I value in a functioning democracy is respect for alternative views (with the exception of conspiracy theories) .  BTW I don't think you're alone in the parish in holding a view that differs from that I outlined at the top and it's quite likely such folk skip over the posts they find annoying or one-sided.  

 

Alan

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While not of much interest to those on the right hand side of the pond, depending how you look at it, comments on the left hand side are getting to be down right nasty.  Not that they haven't been these last four years but the animosity between both parties is reaching a crescendo as the election approaches.  One has only to see the televised oratory to sense  the demise of the GOP led by its leader while all the time the Democratic leader keeps his remarks and his face muffled by covid19.  The big question is why elect anyone on a short term basis given the ages of the participants but I suppose thats all there is.  At least one or the other will have a state funeral at taxpayers cost, should he shuffle of this mortal coil while on the job!

     Brian.:rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I will be frank. I object to the continual insinuation that anyone who supports Boris Johnson, Tony Abbott or Donald Trump is a moron. That's all.

 

G'day Frank - let me say that as a supporter of the democratic process a person is entitled to their views and to vote accordingly, but when the results of that vote demonstrate an ill choice was made then this might indicate that some review of one's initial opinion might well be in order. ;) 

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4 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

G'day Frank - let me say that as a supporter of the democratic process a person is entitled to their views and to vote accordingly, but when the results of that vote demonstrate an ill choice was made then this might indicate that some review of one's initial opinion might well be in order. ;) 

One may well review one's own individual opinion based on both perception and persuasion. That might lead to a revision of that opinion but equally it might not - and others might make that revision in the other direction. That's how the democratic process works. For someone to say, however, that their opinion, or view, is right and therefore that others' must be wrong undermines the "reasoned debate" as Simon put it earlier. It strays into "I'm the only one in step" territory.

 

Incidentally, my view (or opinion) is that the rule of law controls what I am allowed to do but has no role in what I am allowed to think.

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25 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

Is it cod? Because I ordered plaice. 

 

In Small Talk at Wreyland, Cecil Torr recounts an incident at an hotel in Penzance. On finding the breakfast room crowded: "Waiter, can you find me a place?" "I'm sorry sir, only sole and whiting this morning."

Edited by Compound2632
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11 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

I assume that's meant to say "them", in which case you and I are some of the lucky ones then to have known at least one of our great-grandparents.

My father was always keen to get a photo of the family with 4 generations on it, I have one of me at 2 years old and my Father, Grandfather and Great Grand father in it.
We also managed to get one of my Father, Me, my Daughter and my new born Grand Daughter on it, my Father died a few months later.
Our family seems to be slow in getting generations started, I was 27 and my daughter 30, before our 'first born', so we are not holding our breath for the next 4 generations photo, which will probably be lost on a hard drive some where, sometime :wacko: 
We use to have 'proper' photo's to keep and cherish.

Edited by Penlan
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29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

In Small Talk at Wreyland, Cecil Torr recounts an incident at an hotel in Penzance. On finding the breakfast room crowded: "Waiter, can you find me a place?" "I'm sorry sir, only sole and whiting this morning."

I think you'll find there's more Haddock than any other fish available in PZ, at present :jester:
Don't worry Stephen, I do get the joke........
Some 15 years ago I was up in Arbroath for a family funeral and went into a Chippies and asked for 'Cod & Chips', the look on the shop staff's faces was enough for me to quickly change the order to Haddock & Chips. 
Apparently there had been some jibe's in the press about Fisherman saying "... we don't need to be told how to conserve fish stocks", followed by "..so why is there no Cod? then".

Cod 'Way down West' is from Iceland (the Country).
I can recall Arbroath being a bustling fishing port in the late 40's early 50's, but once all the Cod was gone, well all they have now, is a Marina. 


 

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Arbroath smokies are still a thing though - with protected geographical indication, at least to the end of the year*. But maybe the haddock comes in for smoking from elsewhere these days.

 

*Sorry, can't keep the consequences of popular folly out of it.

Edited by Compound2632
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1 hour ago, Penlan said:

My father was always keen to get a photo of the family with 4 generations on it, I have one of me at 2 years old and my Father, Grandfather and Great Grand father in it.
We also managed to get one of my Father, Me, my Daughter and my new born Grand Daughter on it, my Father died a few months later.
Our family seems to be slow in getting generations started, I was 27 and my daughter 30, before our 'first born', so we are not holding our breath for the next 4 generations photo, which will probably be lost on a hard drive some where, sometime :wacko: 
We use to have 'proper' photo's to keep and cherish.

Thankfully I got to know my great grandfather very well. He lived with my grandparents during his later years, and died in 2005 at the ripe old age of 95 (I was 13 at the time.) He was a platelayer for the LNER during WW2, and was the man who got me into trains. My No.5 Geoffrey Lake is named after him. 

Edited by RedGemAlchemist
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