Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Are we assuming that Wolferton is renamed Wolfingham? I wasn't thinking re-named, so much as supplanted by, in that Wolfringham is clearly a bigger, busier place, which simply happens to be in roughly the same location as, and share one or two buildings with, Wolferton. But, as Master of The Achingverse, clearly the decision is yours. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Not sure if it's come up before, (quick search say's no!) but there is a ruined church to St Felix about 1.5 mile SSE of Wolferton Copyright Gintaras Girdzius https://goo.gl/maps/VGQDG839qLxcMxQT6 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Now that I’d never spotted. St Peter’s at Wolferton was semi-ruined for a long time, I believe, restored in C19th from a wreck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: I wasn't thinking re-named, so much as supplanted by, in that Wolfringham is clearly a bigger, busier place, which simply happens to be in roughly the same location as, and share one or two buildings with, Wolferton. But, as Master of The Achingverse, clearly the decision is yours. Understood, and perfectly proper reasoning. However, renaming a real place, as opposed to adding new ones, would be novel in my scheme! I had thought something like the route below, how does that compare with your scheme? 15 minutes ago, rocor said: The Midland and Great Northern Joint railway had their Norwich City railway station located in the West of the city. Could the West Norfolk Railway maybe have had an arrangement to share their terminus. If not, there are many other roundabouts on the ring road that could have been the original location for the West Norfolk's station. Totally off topic and also irreverent, the White lion pub shown on the google satellite image is somewhere that I've enjoyed a few jars in the distant past. Then and now.... The Lynn & Fakenham announced its push to Norwich in 1879, reaching it in 1882. I imagine the WNR taking up that challenge. The dates work for the WNR expansion. How both schemes made it through Parliament remains a mystery, but clearly both companies were heading for the west of Norwich at around the same time! Not sure which company got there first, but, though the angle of approach is different, both must have been heading for a similar spot to that occupied by Norwich City. So I imagine we are looking for a plot in the general area of the MGN station. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Shadow said: Not sure if it's come up before, (quick search say's no!) but there is a ruined church to St Felix about 1.5 mile SSE of Wolferton Copyright Gintaras Girdzius https://goo.gl/maps/VGQDG839qLxcMxQT6 Yep, I had spotted that. You can see it at the bottom of the satellite view below. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Your route is more or less identical with what I had in mind. Now that Shadow has clued me to St Felix, I’d have no objection to a mass relocation/renaming of the primary settlement to put it roughly there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 BTW, Wolfringham is a corruption of Wuffingashaem, so called because the Norfolk royal family of the early Saxon period lived there, and they were the ones who invited St Felix over, so it all fits. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: BTW, Wolfringham is a corruption of Wuffingashaem, so called because the Norfolk royal family of the early Saxon period lived there, and they were the ones who invited St Felix over, so it all fits. Perfect. That extrapolation of 'primary world' history is very much what we aim at. In the meantime, I've been doodling. Is this the sort of thing you meant by your previous comment? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Well, looking at Babingley on Wiki, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babingley) St Felix was the first Christian church in Norfolk. A legend claims that Felix was shipwrecked on the River Babingley but a colony of beavers saved him from drowning, so in gratitude Felix consecrated the chief beaver as a bishop. The village sign records the legend, showing a beaver wearing a bishop's mitre, ministering to other beavers. A shrine to Beavers, you couldn't make it up any better! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) Edwardian, That’s the sort of thing, although I thought the river and settlement were called Cabbingley. K Edited October 17, 2020 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 Which part of Norwich do we demolish? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Edwardian, That’s the sort of thing, although I thought the river and settlement were called Cabbingley. K Right, so Wolfringham still somewhere else? A small village by the harbour, Wolfringham Staithe as the only Wolfringham? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I'm not being clear: Wolfringham is now where you've put it, but in my head I'd re-designated Babingly as Cabbingley. You can tell that I'm not really keeping-up with The Rules here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Which part of Norwich do we demolish? What about coming along the River Yare instead 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocor Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: Which part of Norwich do we demolish? What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?. As to your question. https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, Shadow said: What about coming along the River Yare instead OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich. Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line. It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus. Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below. The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender. Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Edwardian said: OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich. Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line. It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus. Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below. The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender. Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's. Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist. A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral! Whoops! Better re-think! I think I may have been being guided by Shadow to terminate the line short of the housing, when I compare his modern map to the 1880s survey. This does leave the WNR further from the City centre than either of its rivals! Edited October 17, 2020 by Edwardian 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000 The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road. Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???) Edited October 17, 2020 by Shadow 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted October 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist. A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral! Whoops! Whoops indeed. It would be the Reformation all over again. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, rocor said: What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?. As to your question. https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974 It might have been sensible, and the 'will of Parliament' for the WNR and the Lynn & Fakenham to build a joint approach and station. A very sound suggestion you make. However, it is my preference not to do violence to Norfolk as was. Rather than an altered Norfolk, I prefer More Norfolk! This even to the extent of not liking to re-name real places! More fun anyway to event a new terminus! 5 minutes ago, Shadow said: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000 The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road. Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???) Yes, that would work, and I like that layout. of course, it means that next door is a large gothic church under construction. What fun to model that! Thanks, we may have the answer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2020 Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884. 17 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist. A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral! Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too: 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884. Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too: Agree on both counts. Now, can anyone find pictures of St Jon the Baptist under construction? EDIT: apparently one was reproduced in an article in the Eastern Daily Press in 2010. Oooh, but we do get trams along Earlham Road! Edited October 17, 2020 by Edwardian 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 And large country houses that got turned into army training colleges, management colleges, and then rather strange, rambling, and slightly faded hotels. He clearly recycled motifs, possibly entire sub-sections of designs. View from room in which we stayed while on my significant birthday weekend last year. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) I know little of which you speak, but this current saga has been most interesting and must be gratifying to those concerned for all the research of the area and the railway. Always a problem to know where to put it especially in established communities. Never knew much of what went on east of the London area. A recent TV programme on freeways in the US had the same situation and the general conclusion was to put it through the poorer areas of town, getting rid of eyesores and slums in the process. It worked to a degree but it also displaced mainly black and poor which leaves the situation where it is today. It is doubtful any more freeways will be needed for a while, nor even more unlikely, railways. If so, new options will be needed! Brian. Edited October 17, 2020 by brianusa 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Shadow said: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000 The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road. Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???) It seems that I must destroy something, in this case, the mid-Nineteenth Century gardens. Wiki tells is that: The Plantation Garden, located at 4 Earlham Road, Norwich, was established 140 years ago in a 3-acre (12,000 m2) abandoned chalk quarry by Henry Trevor, a Norwich shopkeeper. Over a period of forty years the gardens became a showpiece that featured terraces, water features and rockeries surrounded by a large fountain, all styled on Italian Renaissance designs. It once featured eight glasshouses. The design may have been influenced by the architect Edward Boardman, who worked for Trevor on other projects. After Henry Trevor died in 1897, the gardens slowly became neglected. Link Shadow has pointed out the fun a tunnel would be, so, does the WNR fill it in and bring it to ground level, or, does it tunnel under cliff terrace and what was then Grove Street and emerge somewhere in the vicinity of Vine Cottage (see lower of the two 1880s map images)? This avoids destroying any housing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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