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15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Jcredfer

 

That explains why the sun appears red/orange when low in the sky.

 

It doesn’t explain why it often appears at the edge of cloud sheet at dawn and dusk.

 

K

 

 

Is it just because the rays are shining horizontally (or rather tangentially) so can sneak underneath the clouds?

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Yes. But, why do the cloud sheets so often have their edges at positions that permit this?

 

(The truth is, I think, that they probably don’t often. It is more likely that on those odd occasions when they do it produces a memorable winking sunrise/set, rather than a forgettably grey slow increase/decrease in light level.)

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11 hours ago, jcredfer said:

Some colours get deflected more than others.

Yes. Shorter wavelengths get scattered more easily, which is the blue end of the spectrum, which is why the sky is blue.

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38 minutes ago, Northroader said:

What I don’t understand is why the dawn comes up like thunder on the road to Mandalay?

In fact no-one does. The main reason for this is that if you were looking from the road to Mandalay across some kind of Bay you would be looking West towards the Bay of Bengal and the line should read "The night comes down like thunder over India cross the bay, which wouldn't scan unless you used the Imperial pronuciation of InJa rather than In-Di-A and would have little poetic value. Such is life.

Edited by webbcompound
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4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I had always assumed that colonial mariners used the term “road” in much the way that railwaymen do, to mean “route”. 

 

That was my thinking too. Also "road" in the sense of an anchorage, though I think that's usually in the plural.

Edited by Compound2632
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17 hours ago, Edwardian said:

"dawn"?

 

Sorry, you'll have to explain what that is.

 

It's what you see when you're a bit later than usual coming home after a night on the lash... Well, that's when I used to see it.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

It's what you see when you're a bit later than usual coming home after a night on the lash... Well, that's when I used to see it.

 

 

 

Ah, thanks, often wondered what that was.

 

My children are of the present generation of Clean Living Youth.  It's so disheartening.  I tried to explain to them the importance of university as a 3-year subsidised drinking holiday, but they just don't get it.

 

I begin to feel like an old decayed Regency Rake living among prim young Victorians.

 

Your humble and obedient servant,

 

Newman Noggs, Esq.

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Well you'll be heartened to know that on Thursday night, the last full night before lockdown, the streets of Aberystwyth were filled with p*ssed students, all nicely spreading the plague before going home to incubate it for a fortnight... Thankfully the lockdown is 17 days rather than 14 so most of them should develop symptoms before it ends.

 

So encouraging to see such drunkenness remaining a tradition.

 

On a lighter note it did see an interesting form of Eveningsong; I heard at least three Welsh Hymns...

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20 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I tried to explain to them the importance of university as a 3-year subsidised drinking holiday, but they just don't get it.

I my mid-late 20s I worked in a university, and I was appalled to discover that even in the early 90s, students were going to university to gain a good degree. They seemed to have grasped the essential idea that actually getting to university usually mean a degree was inevitable, but had overlooked the key benefit to employers of 3 (or more) years spent mostly having a good time getting inebriated (ideally the inebriation should be such that no knowledge was retained about whether the time was good or not): if you have done it on your own time, you won't be doing it on their time. 

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

I tried to explain to them the importance of university as a 3-year subsidised drinking holiday, but they just don't get it.

Subsidised? No grant for me, all loans (which barely covered rent - I worked out at one point that my loan paid my rent and left me £35 a year for food and beer!), and with tuition fees of over £9,000 p.a., doesn't sound very subsidised to me! 

That being said, I got by with only a part time job, probably helped by the fact I have the alcohol tolerance of a small pigeon with a liver problem, so drinking was never very expensive...

Edited by Skinnylinny
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2 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

Subsidised? No grant for me, all loans (which barely covered rent - I worked out at one point that my loan paid my rent and left me £35 a year for food and beer!), and with tuition fees of over £9,000 p.a., doesn't sound very subsidised to me! 

 

I was referring to the cost of the beer!

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Subsidised by 'grad tax' maybe, which the increased salary expectations of higher level jobs easily cover. 

 

I never did much drinking before university, as I was the only person with a car, transporting friends to various houses/fields/beaches etc. The upside of which was, upon being asked for petrol money, inebriated people often vastly overestimate the amount of fuel used by a 1.3L Ford KA. 

 

I went to university for the promise of being allowed to make racecars and robots at someone else's cost, which was enjoyable but didn't leave much time for alcohol-based entertainment (though the workshop bins told a certain story most Saturday mornings).

 

I've since rediscovered the joys of a large bottle of cider, largely by combining it with the aroma of plastic cement or 3D printer resin. It tends to make me look less harshly on my modelling too!

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5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I had always assumed that colonial mariners used the term “road” in much the way that railwaymen do, to mean “route”. 

 

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That was my thinking too. Also "road" in the sense of an anchorage, though I think that's usually in the plural.

 

And in the context of the other nautical references throughout the song this makes eminent sense.

 

Unfortunately the first verse blows it

"By the old Moulmein Pagoda
Looking eastward to the sea
There's a Burma gal a settin'
And I know that she waits for me"

As we know the Burma gal would be looking westward.

What this tells us is popular song is not a reliable source of navigation advice.

 

 

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Apologies for not replying to your comment about the Sun being seen under the clouds, I have been rather busy away from the keyboard.  It would seem that there were plenty of answers from other knowing gents and so perhaps not much missed.  

 

I think you may be right about remembering spectacular weather events can make them seem more frequent, as they are more memorable.  There is one other factor which may also contribute to the low cloud effect.  It is possible that on "some" of those occasions the Earth's curvature may also come into play.  Low cloud, normally 1,000 ft or less is often the lower end of a sloping Front, as heavier cold air causes warmer air, pressing against it, to rise over it.  That layer of cloud in the distance may well be rather higher and give more vertical space for the Sun to be seen.  It may also be quite distant and would still then, look closer to the horizon, as it follows over the Earth's curve.  I suppose to round that off, a Front is of a limited width from it's leading edge to the rear, which would contribute to why the Sun could appear in clear air beyond.

 

My brain hurts, I'm off to cook dinner.

 

Julian

 

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6 hours ago, webbcompound said:

 

 

And in the context of the other nautical references throughout the song this makes eminent sense.

 

Unfortunately the first verse blows it

"By the old Moulmein Pagoda
Looking eastward to the sea
There's a Burma gal a settin'
And I know that she waits for me"

As we know the Burma gal would be looking westward.

What this tells us is popular song is not a reliable source of navigation advice.

 

 

True enough in that case but "Spanish Ladies" is a pretty good guide to the Western Approaches and the English Channel.

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...although it is pretty clever to close Dodman without seeing the Lizard...

Edited by Schooner
I actually meant to pop by to say how much I enjoyed the recent outbreak of world/railway building amongst the esoterica. Top stuff from all concerned
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