Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Kits have existed. 

 

That is so often true and so lapidary that it ought to be a Latin tag. The nearest approach to kit in this sense would appear to be ornamentum, in the sense of equipment or apparatus. So I propose: erat ornamentum, to be abbreviated e.o.

[ChrisN]

Have you tried touching the wires from your controller to the wheels and see if it runs? If it does not, take the body off and try touching the wires to the motor connections.  If the motor does not run, be careful as the wheels will turn, take the motor out and try again, in case everything is jammed up.  If it does not go, the motor is dead.

 

Do you have a meter?  If so see if there is a short between the wheels and the chassis/body.  You will then need, if there is, to try and find it.

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Is it only collecting current form the rear driving wheels?

 

 

I don't know!  How would I know?

 

I suppose the thing is to put wires directly to the wheels, but I don't think I have a means to do this unless I (a) find what I've done with my wire, (b) find what I've done with my old Duette.

 

6 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

You jammy, jammy, git! I wondered which lucky sod had won her!

 

I'm not jammy. I just look at this world and want it all. Then I strike, like Thunderball.

 

6 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

 

If I'd had the money I was after the gorgeous 0-4-4T he had for sale,

 

Much as I admire a Large Scotchman, I had no real need of one.

 

6 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

 

or else the LBSCR C2.

 

You mean this one?

 

 

Unlike the F, she runs, and well.

 

This I do have a need for.  I will tart up my slightly bedraggled C1 and look forward to the release of the Model Rail E1. What I really need in my life, though, is an IEG D1.  

[sem34090]

Yes, that one...

 

Grrrr!

 

[Dave John]

Nice engine Edwardian. 

 

Looking at the photos the first thing I'd do is take the chassis out and give the wheels a really good clean. Treads and wheel backs, polished to a shine. 

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, sem34090 said:

Yes, that one...

 

Grrrr!

 

 

Well, when you've become that affluent middle-aged patriarch your kids will wish to despise while allowing you to continue to support them, and upon whose shoulders Radio 4 and The Guardian will load responsibility for absolutely everything that is wrong in the world, then you will be able to afford one too!

[Regularity]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Well, when you've become that affluent middle-aged patriarch your kids will wish to despise while allowing you to continue to support them, and upon whose shoulders Radio 4 and The Guardian will load responsibility for absolutely everything that is wrong in the world, then you will be able to afford one too!

I think you missed out a few words:

"Well, when you've become that affluent middle-aged patriarch your kids will wish to despise while allowing you to continue to support them, and upon whose shoulders Radio 4 and The Guardian will load responsibility for absolutely everything that is wrong in the world, then you still will not be able to afford one!"

[Tom Burnham]

I recall seeing a whole string of transporter wagons looking disused in a siding just outside Heidelberg on the Oberrheinische Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft in the early 1980s.  The OEG had been a metre-gauge light railway serving the countryside around Mannheim, but by then it had grown/deteriorated (delete where inapplicable) to a metre-gauge interurbam tram.

[teaky]

50 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I suppose the thing is to put wires directly to the wheels, but I don't think I have a means to do this unless I (a) find what I've done with my wire, (b) find what I've done with my old Duette.

Do you have a 9V battery?

[Caley Jim]

One reason why it is difficult to get all wheels on the track would appear to be that they are all to a variety of back-to-back dimensions, especially noticeable on the bogie.  Also several of them appear to not be square on the axles, notable the right hand rear coupled wheel and some of the tender wheels.  The first issue is fixable, the second perhaps less easily so.   A meter is a great help pretty much indispensable in diagnosing non-running issues (among many others) as it will tell you right away whether the issue is a short or a break in the circuit.

 

Jim

[CKPR]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The trouble is, it's dead.  No sign of life whatsoever when power is applied to the track. The pick ups all appear to be in contact with the wheels.

 

What are my "actions on ..." finding a dead locomotive? 

[1] I suggest working your way back to the motor from the pick-up wires and test the pick-ups, the pick-up plate between the drivers [check that this isn't shorting out] and then the motor itself. In fact, I would take the body off the engine to check that there aren't any shorts 'twixt body and chassis [the pick ups to both wheels suggests that it's probably been built with the chassis  as  electrically dead]. 

[2] if the motor turns over with the body off but not with it on, then this may indicate shorting out in two places somewhere on the engine [the steps are usually where most shorts occur]. I notice that there is a plasticard spacer at the rear of the tender that is possibly insulating the tender chassis from the tender body but can't tell whether the drawbar is insulated or not. Whilst there are no pick-ups on the tender, there's still the possibility of a short on the tender affecting the engine.

[3] As well as the loco body, I'd also suggest taking the front bogie off  and uncoupling the tender whilst testing.

 

As Teaky suggests, fix a couple of wires [or paperclips in an emergency !] to a 9v battery to use as test leads.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by CKPR

[Northroader]

Presumably when you received it, you put it on your track, opened up the controller, and nothing happened, and just guessing the cut out didn’t trip, so you’re not looking at a short but rather an open circuit? So it’s more try to trace the path of the current. I feel that the pickups on the leading drivers don’t look particularly springy for starters.

[Nearholmer]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Well, when you've become that affluent middle-aged patriarch your kids will wish to despise while allowing you to continue to support them, and upon whose shoulders Radio 4 and The Guardian will load responsibility for absolutely everything that is wrong in the world, then you will be able to afford one too!

 

About the only advantage of becoming late-middle-aged, IMO, is that, if you are lucky, it allows you to afford a few toys you couldn't afford when young; all that other stuff, and you missed-out the initially almost imperceptible, but always accelerating, bodily decay BTW, is the price you have to pay for it.

 

The other option appears to be to live fast and die young.

 

But, by the time you work that out, its too late, in that you are already old.

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Something I have wanted for a long time ...

 

 

Oh my word James that's a beautiful model locomotive.  As to it being a non-runner sharper minds than mine have already given much good advice as to what might be done so for the present time at least I shall wish you the very best of luck upon this adventure.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, teaky said:

Do you have a 9V battery?

 

No. Do I need one? I take it that if I run wires from the battery to the wheels, it will test for life in the motor?

 

(I understand nothing about electrickery)

 

 

[Edwardian]

45 minutes ago, Northroader said:

..... so you’re not looking at a short but rather an open circuit? 

 

I don't know what that means!!!!!

 

 

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Annie said:

Oh my word James that's a beautiful model locomotive.  As to it being a non-runner sharper minds than mine have already given much good advice as to what might be done so for the present time at least I shall wish you the very best of luck upon this adventure.

 

As I've previously mentioned, I'm poor at praise, so @Annie thank-you for effectively prompting me to say that both engines (are there any more?) are rather splendid in appearance. 

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

No. Do I need one? I take it that if I run wires from the battery to the wheels, it will test for life in the motor?

 

(I understand nothing about electrickery)

 

Is this an area where a student of GCSE Science might be able (if unwilling) to assist?

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

@Annie thank-you for effectively prompting me to say that both engines (are there any more?) are rather splendid in appearance. 

 

More? No, my finances are finite.

 

Just that examples of two classes I had long-term aspirations to acquire happened to come up for sale at once.  I will be eating re-cycled cardboard for the next few months as a result. 

 

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

Is this an area where a student of GCSE Science might be able (if unwilling) to assist?

 

You'd think so. Not holding my breath, though.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

One reason why it is difficult to get all wheels on the track would appear to be that they are all to a variety of back-to-back dimensions, especially noticeable on the bogie.  Also several of them appear to not be square on the axles, notable the right hand rear coupled wheel and some of the tender wheels.  The first issue is fixable, the second perhaps less easily so.   A meter is a great help pretty much indispensable in diagnosing non-running issues (among many others) as it will tell you right away whether the issue is a short or a break in the circuit.

 

Jim

 

That's troubling, but you may well be right!

[Caley Jim]

31 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I don't know what that means!!!!!

The circuit is the path that the electricity takes from one set of wheels, through the pick-ups and the motor to the other set of wheels (and through the rails to the controller).   If you imagine this as a circle with the motor at the top and the source of power at the bottom and power (current) flows around the circle from one side of the power source (be that controller or battery), through the motor and returns to the other side of the source.   A short circuit is where there is electrical contact across the circle between one side and the other at some point and so current returns to the power source by this 'short cut' rather than through the motor.  An open circuit is where the circle is broken and therefore no current can flow. 

 

Short circuit:

 

 

Open circuit:

 

HTH

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Caley Jim said:

The circuit is the path that the electricity takes from one set of wheels, through the pick-ups and the motor to the other set of wheels (and through the rails to the controller).   If you imagine this as a circle with the motor at the top and the source of power at the bottom and power (current) flows around the circle from one side of the power source (be that controller or battery), through the motor and returns to the other side of the source.   A short circuit is where there is electrical contact across the circle between one side and the other at some point and so current returns to the power source by this 'short cut' rather than through the motor.  An open circuit is where the circle is broken and therefore no current can flow. 

 

Short circuit:

 

 

Open circuit:

 

HTH

 

Jim

 

Ah! Thank you, Jim.

 

So, an 'open circuit' is not, in fact, a circuit. It's a break in a circuit (in terms I can comprehend)!

[Caley Jim]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

 

Ah! Thank you, Jim.

 

So, an 'open circuit' is not, in fact, a circuit. It's a break in a circuit (in terms I can comprehend)!

Glad to be of help, James.

 

Exactly.  For power to flow you need a closed circuit so that the current can flow.  With a short circuit it does that by taking the short cut, so doesn't pass through the motor, so the motor doesn't run.  With an open circuit it can't go anywhere, so the motor doesn't run.  Having said all that, the short, or break, can be anywhere, even in the motor itself, which is why you need to dismantle things and test each part of the circuit separately to diagnose the root of the problem.  For example, a break can be dirt between the wipers and the wheels, a broken lead between the wipers and the motor or a problem with the motor itself.  A short can be a wheel on each side touching the bodywork, or again within the motor.  If the overload trip on your controller is not going off, then it's more likely to be a break than a short.    If the problem lies within the motor, then replacing that is your easiest option.

 

All this assumes that the 'non-running' is down to an electrical problem and not a mechanical one, e.g. wheels or gears jammed.  This is something you can tell with a meter although if it is jammed, you should be able to hear the motor buzzing as it tries to turn.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

29 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Glad to be of help, James.

 

Exactly.  For power to flow you need a closed circuit so that the current can flow.  With a short circuit it does that by taking the short cut, so doesn't pass through the motor, so the motor doesn't run.  With an open circuit it can't go anywhere, so the motor doesn't run.  Having said all that, the short, or break, can be anywhere, even in the motor itself, which is why you need to dismantle things and test each part of the circuit separately to diagnose the root of the problem.  For example, a break can be dirt between the wipers and the wheels, a broken lead between the wipers and the motor or a problem with the motor itself.  A short can be a wheel on each side touching the bodywork, or again within the motor.  If the overload trip on your controller is not going off, then it's more likely to be a break than a short.    If the problem lies within the motor, then replacing that is your easiest option.

 

All this assumes that the 'non-running' is down to an electrical problem and not a mechanical one, e.g. wheels or gears jammed.  This is something you can tell with a meter although if it is jammed, you should be able to hear the motor buzzing as it tries to turn.

 

Jim

 

Thanks, Jim

 

A fun weekend ahead!

 

I have a meter (somewhere), but have no idea how it works, so may need an online tutorial at some point over the weekend!

[Caley Jim]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I have a meter (somewhere), but have no idea how it works, so may need an online tutorial at some point over the weekend!

Happy to advise if I can, either on here or by PM.  The mechanical side of things is best checked first and is easier to do.  Either way some dismantling is going to be needed.

 

There should be some 'running clearance' in the gears, so you should be able to turn the wheels a fraction of a revolution.  If not, something is jammed.  Take off the body.  If the wheels will now move, then something is jamming against the bodywork.  If they won't remove the motor and try again.  They should now move freely.  If not, either the intermediate gearing (if there is any) is jammed, or a wheel is jamming against the frames, or a bearing in seized.  If they do move now, then either the motor is jammed or the meshing between the worm and wormwheel was too tight.  If you can turn the motor by hand easily, then the latter is probably the case.  Even so, apply power from a battery or a controller and see if the motor runs freely.  If the motor either cannot be turned freely, or if it can, doesn't run under power, then replacing the motor is the next thing to do.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

 

 

There should be some 'running clearance' in the gears, so you should be able to turn the wheels a fraction of a revolution. 

 

They do.