Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

West Norfolk Railway Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon Co. 1st-2nd Composite of 1871.

 

The second test print is also a fail, but it is now a very near miss.  It is evident where parts need thickening, but I should say the result will then be sturdier and well within visual tolerances.   

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

Looking like one of Joe Wright's finest! You can't beat a good bit of Brummagem manufacturing.

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Looking like one of Joe Wright's finest! You can't beat a good bit of Brummagem manufacturing.

 

1870s generic coach!

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

1870s generic coach!

 

Wright you are!

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Wright you are!

 

I miss the groan button sometimes.

 

I really do. 

 

Next will be a 5-compartment Third, a 3-compartment Brake Third and a freelance Luggage Brake in the same style.  To add to the fun, each coach should be a different length!

 

That will form the Achingham branch set, and I will need to resume work on the Colne Valley 0-4-2T/GER T7.

 

 

[Edwardian]

CKPR of this Parish kindly put me onto an interesting item on the Bay of Fleas.

 

I am grateful to him both for that and his assessment of what it might be. 

 

The listing read:

 

2-4-0 Tank Engine 

Brass Model Importer:  unknown
Manufacturer:   unknown
Loco Model no. unknown

Brass model with no identification, nor can I find similar on the web
appear complete

Open frame motor

Test ran well in both directions. - slightly nosy most likely needs some tlc and some running.
From an estate, and so has been in storage for a few years - t

Scale - HO or OO

 

 

 

CKPR  suggested it might be a 1960s  Japanese brass model of a Sharp Stewart engine of the type exported to Japan in the 19th century. 

 

Well, I agree. I've seen a large scale kit of the type and, IIRC, an N Gauge model. and I'm familiar with the type.  Clearly there are differences, most notably a later, larger and Higher pitched boiler, but to me it does have the look if those Japanese loco. The discrepancies hardly matter for my purposes. 

 

 

What I'm not at all familiar with is this Japanese tradition of models.  As the Japanese gauge, I'm told, is 3'6", I am advised the the model might be larger than 3.5mm scale and closer to 4mm scale.

 

Anyway, the Auction Gods smiled upon me and, at less that the cost of that natty little Electrotren 0-6-0T I'm always banging on about, it looks as if we might have an unexpected addition to the WNR roster. With a new chimney, the model would seem entirely suitable for service with the West Norfolk.

 

As we know, Sharp Stewart 2-4-0Ts come in several sizes; Classes of Sharp Stewart inside cylinder 2-4-0Ts.  Most of the standard gauge examples were inside cylindered, with outside cylinders typifying NG examples (e.g. Southwold)

 

But there were exceptions. Outside cylinder types were supplied to the Rhenish Railways and the North Staffs as Northroader has pointed out 

 

 

In any case, I have seen very similar types produced by Dubs, Yorkshire Engine Co and Manning Wardle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling!

[Annie]

Well that was a good spot of luck James.  A perfect engine for the West Norfolk Railway.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

What I'm not at all familiar with is this Japanese tradition of models.  As the Japanese gauge, I'm told, is 3'6", I am advised the the model might be larger than 3.5mm scale and closer to 4mm scale.

Many Japanese "H0" models are to 1:80 scale.

[Edwardian]

17 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Many Japanese "H0" models are to 1:80 scale.

 

That would be good, and would indeed make the model closer to 4mm scale than to 3.5mm, as @CKPR suggested may be the case.  We shall have to wait and see!

 

I'd prefer it if the coupled wheels were at least 16mm diameter, because a 4'* driver is I suggest about the smallest Sharps would have used on a SG 2-4-0T, but I daresay that would not be so important as the buffer height, which would need to be reasonably close to the norm for 4mm. 

 

The model only has buffers fitted at the front.  From the look of them, they will be fitted too close together for a SG 4mm model, so I guess some amendment will be required. 

 

Interestingly, since I identified a (SG) Yorkshire Engine Co outside cylinder 2-4-0T, I read the following:

 

The railway’s first locomotives were 2-4-0T’s, all British-built but to a number of different designs and by different builders. The locomotive generally regarded as the first was built by Vulcan Foundry (614/1871) and eventually became JNR no. 1. In April 1911 it was sold to a small private railway in Kyushu and when it was withdrawn in 1936 it was bought for preservation... Another of the early 2-4-0T’s from the Yorkshire Engine Company is preserved at the Ome Railway Park, an open air museum in the north western outskirts of the city and a third (from Sharp Stewart) is at the Meiji Village museum in Nagoya. Two more, from Avonside, found their way to Taiwan and one is preserved in the February 22nd Park near Taipei station.

 

Preserved steam in Japan

 

Now, I mentioned that the model, to me, had the characteristic appearance of one of the early Japanese 2-4-0Ts (albeit I now know they were not all Sharps), and @CKPR is surely right to identify it as such.  However, it's not very like the examples I was looking at in some respects, especially, as I noted, the boiler, and the cab.  Even allowing for later modifications, I was struggling to pin down the prototype for the model.

 

 

Yet, once I switched the focus of my search from Sharp Stewart, things seem to have become clearer.

 

There is a preserved Japanese loco that has several features captured in the model:

 

- Shape of cab and cut-out

- Square front spectacles, round rear spectacles

- Pitch/diameter of boiler in relation to the low tanks

- Boiler fittings (save the the egregiously ugly wood-burner stack). The size and position of the dome (albeit it lacks Salter valves)

- Footplate sandbox appearance

- Position of clack valve and feed pipe

- Shape of smokebox wrapper, though hardly unique in terms of these Japanese locos

- The rather odd way the boiler handrail terminated in a handrail knob mounted on the top of the side tank 

 

That seems to give us Japan's loco No.1, referred to in the passage quoted above; a Vulcan Foundry product of 1871.

 

  

 

 

Now @CKPRhas kindly donated a stovepipe chimney to replace the horrid American smoke stack (horrible, I should clarify, in the context of this locomotive, because it really does not suit it!).  That will give us an impression of something like the GER Yorkshire Engine and Manning Wardle examples I posted.

 

* Knowing now that it's a Vulcan, the Works List can be consulted.  It gives 614/1871 as having 4'3'' coupled wheels. Assuming it is a 1/80 scale model, accurate in its wheel diameter, and without attempting maths that are beyond me, it seems to me that I can't be far off a 4' wheel in 4mm scale.

 

So, we imagine a SG version of a 3'6'' gauge loco built by Vulcan for Japan c.1871, with a replacement chimney suggesting that, at some point, the loco passed through Stratford.

 

Reasonable scenario for a WNR loco?

 

If so, I can get Narrow Planet to knock up another WNR number plate, and they already do Vulcan works plates for the period

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[Northroader]

Shimbashi station, Honourable Edwardian san.

[Edwardian]

38 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Shimbashi station, Honourable Edwardian san.

 

That's great.

 

Presumably the basis for this livery depiction:

 

 

 

Whereas, hopefully, in due course I'll be able to deck out the little brass 2-4-0T in West Norfolk livery.  Actually, this Victoria Railways class Z 0-6-0T* will give you a very approximate impression of what that might look like:

 

 

 

*the only other two class members, ironically and bizarrely, were 2-4-0s, but, apparently, had extended cabs like street tram locos.

[Northroader]

And here’s West Norfolk in cherry blossom time.

[Adam88]

It looks as though I wasn't the only person to be tempted by Early Japanese Railways, 1853-1914 in the PostScript catalogue recently.

[Edwardian]

Well, this was estimated to arrive on Monday, so I'm very fortunate that it arrived today. Thank you Seller.

 

And she runs.

 

She's small, as we knew she would be, but not too small.

 

To give some sense of scale, here she is next to a Terrier

 

 

As predicated, the buffers are both too low and too close together, and really too small, so I'll have to raise the buffer beam above the running plate. 

 

 

There is a rather unfortunate impression of Donald Trump's hands, looking at these buffers next to those on 4mm stock.

 

 

Her crew may need to duck, however!

 

 

[burgundy]

Since there are no splashers, you might be able to jack up the whole footplate so that the buffer beam did not end up excessively high. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, burgundy said:

Since there are no splashers, you might be able to jack up the whole footplate so that the buffer beam did not end up excessively high. 

 

... giving it those slightly bigger wheels along the way. But I imagine that's not really the direction you wanted to be going in.

[uax6]

It certainly looks like you could take the whole footplate up to the correct buffer height. I wouldn’t be concerned about more of the wheels being on show, l think it actually looks like the body is too low anyway. 
 

ls it me or does it look like the 2-4-0T that the K&ESR had? Good ole Gladstone!

 

Andy g

[Edwardian]

Thanks, Chaps.

 

I will investigate raising the body; good idea that I hadn't considered. 

 

The drivers scale out at just under 4', say a slightly worn 4', so actually, given the size of the loco, that's actually entirely appropriate and in line with the littler Sharpies (I know it's a Vulcan). 

[Nearholmer]

Very nice little engine.

 

Does it run reasonably well?

 

I ask because I used to have a petite H0 mogul from the same generation of Japanese brass, and the motor was a very basic open-frame 3-pole job, and the drive-train not very smooth - it did run, but to Triang c1965 standards.

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

Very nice little engine.

 

Does it run reasonably well?

 

I ask because I used to have a petite H0 mogul from the same generation of Japanese brass, and the motor was a very basic open-frame 3-pole job, and the drive-train not very smooth - it did run, but to Triang c1965 standards.

 

Jerky and growly, but I haven't looked under a bonnet yet and, judging by the dusty exterior, she would probably benefit from a service

[Nearholmer]

I'm wondering about the wheels: do they have moulded plastic centres? If they do, that might date it later than 1960s, when I think they were using brass wheels, with insulating bushes for the axles, although I'm not totally sure. I have an inkling that TeamYakima of RMWeb might be the person to consult, because if he is who I think he is, he worked at a the London shop that specialised in these things in the 1970s.

[ChrisN]

You could always try fitting H0 crew, as they are on their own they will not appear too small, and will make the cab look bigger.

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

You could always try fitting H0 crew, as they are on their own they will not appear too small, and will make the cab look bigger.

 

Yes, that thought did cross my mind!  I have some Stadden HO figures I can dig out to try.

[Edwardian]

11 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

ls it me or does it look like the 2-4-0T that the K&ESR had? Good ole Gladstone!

 

Andy g

 

Yes, she does evoke the RVR Hawthorns, especially with the original wheels.

 

 

[webbcompound]

Very nice engine and good comparison with the Terrier. A bit of work with a couple of files would take the door space up to the roof line, which would be a pretty exact match for the Terrier height wise, and then there would be no crew size issue