Castle Aching

[Annie]

16 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The Highland Railway seems to have been a treasure trove of grounded coach bodies ...

 

Brilliant!  That ladder hung on the side of the old coach body in the first picture is the perfect touch.

 

If you go hunting for old photos of the Tollesbury branch you'll find endless amounts of elderly grounded GER coach bodies.

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Annie said:

Brilliant!  That ladder hung on the side of the old coach body in the first picture is the perfect touch.

 

Agreed

 

9 minutes ago, Annie said:

If you go hunting for old photos of the Tollesbury branch you'll find endless amounts of elderly grounded GER coach bodies.

 

Indeed, one could be forgiven for thinking that all the branch's 'buildings' were 1860s coaches.

[Annie]

37 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Yes, the wheels don't look like they want to come of the axles.  The frames resemble the keyhole description, though I really cannot see how the axles in their bushes would come out.

 

With this type of chassis with 'keyholes' the way to remove the wheelsets is to remove the motor and then remove all the screws holding the chassis spacers in place.  Once this is done push the chassis side plates free of their bushings and the axles will slip through the keyholes.

[webbcompound]

The brass bearings oin the pickup side look suspiciously like the sort of thing that you would have if this was actually supposed to be live to the chassis. You can check if the pickup is on the wrong side quite easily.

- Bend the pickups so they don't touch the wheels

(if this is actually the live side the wheels should be able to draw power from the track)

- Put the chassis on the track

- Put a croc clip on the track on the side of the chassis that doesn't have the (now bent out of the way) pickups.

- touch the wire from the croc clip to the motor where the pickup wires join it

- fire up the controller

If the wheel sets are the wrong way round the chassis will move, then all you need to do is shift the pickups to the other side for the chassis to work

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by webbcompound

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, webbcompound said:

The brass bearings oin the pickup side look suspiciously like the sort of thing that you would have if this was actually supposed to be live to the chassis. You can check if the pickup is on the wrong side quite easily.

- Bend the pickups so they don't touch the wheels

(if this is actually the live side the wheels should be able to draw power from the track)

- Put the chassis on the track

- Put a croc clip on the track on the side of the chassis that doesn't have the (now bent out of the way) pickups.

- touch the wire from the croc clip to the motor where the pickup wires join it

- fire up the controller

If the wheel sets are the wrong way round the chassis will move, then all you need to do is shift the pickups to the other side for the chassis to work

 

 

 

 

OK. Thanks

 

I have successfully followed Annie's instructions and successfully swopped the wheels over.  In the process I've had to break the pick-ups' connection to the motor, so, my plan is to fit some better pick-up in such a way that I can  either swop them to the other side or be able to take the wheels out again if necessary without trashing the new pick-ups.

 

This is where my understanding of what you are saying starts to peter out, however, trial and error us something I can do. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[Northroader]

Another way of testing is if you rig up a torch battery, a wire to the lamp bulb holder, and away from the holder, and another wire from the other side of the battery, which is just basic soldering, then tape up all the loose bits with some insulation tape. Then put the wire ends across what you’re testing and see if the bulb lights up? If you’re diffident about using a meter this may be a simple way of checking.

[uax6]

Those outside framed HR coaches were dotted about all over the place, indeed the preserved HR 4 wheel brake van was mounted on its own bit of track to act as a lamp/stores hut for a signalbox. The preserved 6 wheel coupe was a mess van for S&T into the 1960's.

That picture of the chariot ended body in someones garden is quite sad, it was bough for preservation and then stored for some time, before being classed as to far gone, which ended up with the body being burnt. These days it would have been rebuilt....

 

I would think that something like the Bishop's Castle exLNWR four wheeler bodies would look quite nice grounded...

 

As for your chassis, from the two pictures shown it looks to me that the insulation is around the hub of the wheels against the axle in the top photo, whereas the pick-ups bear against the other side wheels when looked at underneath. Maybe the bit of pcb has fallen off and been put on the wrong way round.. 

That arrangement of pick-up is useless, if they do pick-up, they will be eaten away by any sparks and will then not touch the wheel. Back wiping (or top tread wiping) is a much better way of doing things.

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

28 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Those outside framed HR coaches were dotted about all over the place, indeed the preserved HR 4 wheel brake van was mounted on its own bit of track to act as a lamp/stores hut for a signalbox. The preserved 6 wheel coupe was a mess van for S&T into the 1960's.

That picture of the chariot ended body in someones garden is quite sad, it was bough for preservation and then stored for some time, before being classed as to far gone, which ended up with the body being burnt. These days it would have been rebuilt....

 

I would think that something like the Bishop's Castle exLNWR four wheeler bodies would look quite nice grounded...

 

As for your chassis, from the two pictures shown it looks to me that the insulation is around the hub of the wheels against the axle in the top photo, whereas the pick-ups bear against the other side wheels when looked at underneath. Maybe the bit of pcb has fallen off and been put on the wrong way round.. 

That arrangement of pick-up is useless, if they do pick-up, they will be eaten away by any sparks and will then not touch the wheel. Back wiping (or top tread wiping) is a much better way of doing things.

 

Andy G

 

Thanks, Andy

 

Well, now I've swapped the wheels over, I'll put my pick-ups on the same side as I found the old ones. 

 

The WN needs this chassis - it's in the roster - so ....

[Edwardian]

Hopefully at the weekend I can get back to some modelling now I'm back home.

 

In the meantime, I have been pondering Birchoverham Market.

 

The essential background is that the original 1855 line ran from Castle Aching north to the Birchoverhams.  The principal settlement there was Birchoverham Market, but this was never a terminus, because the line ran on to the coast at Birchoverham Staithe*.  

 

Thus, we would have originally had a single, short, low masonry platform of the period, similar to that at Castle Aching, though the latter has been extended. The station building would also be similar to Castle Aching, carstone rag with stone quoins in a Neo-Jacobean style. 

 

There would have been a single platform face and, as by no means all passenger trains would go to the Staithe, there would need to be a run-round loop and, I suggest, some locomotive stabling and certainly a 40' turntable.  Much as Castle Aching, in fact.

 

Travel forward to the late 1870s and Birchoverham Next-the-Sea is developing into a seaside resort, eventually to eclipse Hunstanton to its west and rival Cromer to its east.  In the 1880s a grand terminus station evolves there, attracting plenty of through traffic. The junction between the old main line to Staithe and the new line to Next-the-Sea, is at Birchoverham Market.

 

I have been pondering this.  

 

My thought is to reduce the line to the Staithe to a branch and, thus, to reduce the original station to the branch platform for Birchoverham Staithe.  A short rake of elderly 4-wheelers can serve the passenger requirement between the two stations, with little or no call for through passenger services to the Staithe; 'change at Birchoverham Market for Birchoverham Staithe'.  It struck me that the newly acquired Vulcan 2-4-0T might well be suitable for this duty.

 

The through traffic would use either side (one up, one down) of a new island platform linked to the original station by a new footbridge. Here the WN's Sharp Stewart 2-4-0s and 4-4-0s with 6-wheeled rakes, and foreign through trains, could race up and down. 

 

 

The sketch above should illustrate my thinking. so far.

 

How, then, to complete the track plan.  The elements that would need to be accommodated seem to me to be these:

 

• There needs to be reasonable local goods facilities for the town.  It is a market, so reasonable cattle sidings, plus coal siding and goods shed siding.
• These goods facilities need to be accessible both from the mainline (to Next-the-Sea) and the branch line, as goods traffic still flows to and from the Staithe.
• I do not think I need a TT or running shed
• Nevertheless, perhaps I do need some run-round facility 
• The line to Castle Aching must reduce to a single line once clear of the station.

No doubt I've missed something important.

 

I am in need of guidance as to how such facilities might be prototypically arranged, so any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

*Which progressively silted up, so, by the Edwardian period, it can only accommodate shallow draft coastal vessels.  The main north coast harbour served by the  WNR is now Fakeney (think Blakeney with Wellsian additions).   

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[ian]

12 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

... think Blakeney with Wellsian additions.

 

Not those Martian tripods again!

[Edwardian]

36 minutes ago, ian said:

 

Not those Martian tripods again!

 

The Wroxham Zombies bit their legs off!

 

I was, of course, thinking more in terms of ...

 

 

 

 

[James Harrison]

It strikes me that Birchoverham Market is almost a Norfolk version of Bewdley.  

[Nearholmer]

Birchoveram Market's add-on bit could resemble Overstrand Station, although perhaps not its current sylvan state https://photos.stoxnet.com/displayimage.php?album=1512&pid=90833

 

Model railway and track-plan-wise: study ye Grandborough Junction. I think the Reverend designed the whole thing for you, including the bit I like best, which is the little sorting yard for the branch goods traffic.

 

Never go to Grandborough, though, unless you wish to be disappointed, because the real station is nothing like the model, and sits in very flat fields, rather than picturesquely between over-bridges. The village is a little bit interesting (allow ten minutes to look at the village hall and bus shelter), and actually belongs to HM the Queen, although you wouldn't know it it look at it.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Nearholmer

[alastairq]

The gent in the upper photograph seems somewhat taken aback?

 

The figure on the extreme right of the lower photo is probably from one of the Airfix ranges? Certainly he seems to still be attached to his concrete pad?

Not planning to move those [coal?] wagons on the left any time soon either, judging by the way the rails have been blocked by spillages? 

 

Now, I'm  in no manner an expert in things railway, but the idea of the junction does seem to me to be an opportunity to go very ''Board-of-Trade' in its layout?

Perhaps a nice excuse to actually have somewhat pointless bits of important trackage?

 

Or am I twerly for BOT? 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by alastairq

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Or am I twerly for BOT? 

 

Never twerly for BoT. Anyway, I assume we're thinking of c. 1905.

 

For the contentment of the man from HMRI, I suspect the actual junction needs to be laid as a full double junction (as at Grandborough Junction), even if the two branches immediately become single. The junction could be to the right of the station, per your plan, though that leaves me uneasy about the single line through the Staithes branch platform. Unless the B-over-S line curves away through the platforms, I would have thought a junction to the left of the station would be more natural? Sorry, random thoughts only.

[Compound2632]

Is the line from Birchoverham Market towards Castle Acing double or single?

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

Is the line from Birchoverham Market towards Castle Acing double or single?

 

Single.

 

I suspect the whole of the WNR should be single, with passing loops as required.

[Nearholmer]

It could be as Edwardian has shown, with a trailing-only connection from the branch into the loop around the island platform, the branch run-round being off to the left on the branch.

 

I'll have a bash at a few topologies later, if I get time.

[Compound2632]

Consider Stanley Junction and how it is similar and different from Birchoverham Market. When the line to Birchoverham-on-Sea was built, was the entire layout remodelled or did cost considerations result in it being laid out as a branch off the original line?

[Edwardian]

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Birchoveram Market's add-on bit could resemble Overstrand Station, although perhaps not its current sylvan state https://photos.stoxnet.com/displayimage.php?album=1512&pid=90833

 

Model railway and track-plan-wise: study ye Grandborough Junction. I think the Reverend designed the whole thing for you, including the bit I like best, which is the little sorting yard for the branch goods traffic.

 

Never go to Grandborough, though, unless you wish to be disappointed, because the real station is nothing like the model, and sits in very flat fields, rather than picturesquely between over-bridges. The village is a little bit interesting (allow ten minutes to look at the village hall and bus shelter), and actually belongs to HM the Queen, although you wouldn't know it it look at it.

 

Well, I have the Wild Swan volumes on Buckingham, so I'll dig them out.

 

The Boy bought me the Wild Swan volume on Geoff Williams's Aylesbury for the recent anniversary of my natal day. Looking forward ...

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The Boy bought me the Wild Swan volume on Geoff Williams's Aylesbury for the recent anniversary of my natal day. Looking forward ...

 

Recommended reading. I had it as a father's day present to myself since I knew neither of the Things would remember!

[Edwardian]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Recommended reading. I had it as a father's day present to myself since I knew neither of the Things would remember!

 

Yes, I had to tell him what I'd like, but quite gratifying that he asked me what I wanted. 

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

For the contentment of the man from HMRI, I suspect the actual junction needs to be laid as a full double junction

 I agree. Iain Rice laid out a pan in one of his tomes, for a BoT Junction [in Wales, but I forgave him that]....with three single track lines, but a double [track] junction.

All that is needed really is a turnout [point?] anda crossover, from the Staithes line across the end of the new platform, to the lower loop?

 

 

 

Mr Wharts thread post above, the lower diagram, gives some idea.....[flipped of course....aren't we all???]

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by alastairq

[Nearholmer]

The classic junction is necessary for through running, but if the branch is "independent" then all sorts of other arrangements can apply, and there are many different examples that can be drawn upon.

 

I quite like independent branch junctions, because they are interesting (often awkward) from the point of view of the transfer of goods wagons etc..

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Here’s a cheap way of doing it, by putting the branch runaround outside the ‘passenger’ area, and having all the goods and loco facilities springing from it, thereby allowing hand-worked points and no FPLs.

 

This seems to need FPL only on two points, and keeps signals to the minimum. Satisfyingly awkward to shunt too!

 

EDIT: I've just realised I've omitted something to protect the branch from incursions from the "goods" area; there need to be a trap beyond that stop board. Ideally, the loop in the "goods" would move rightwards a bit, to make room to shunt between it and said trap.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Nearholmer