Castle Aching

[Welchester]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I like port, however, but it very much dislikes me; more than a glass or two and my head splits the next day, whereas I can take claret to the point of unconsciousness without the same effect.

 

As to the direction port is passed, I do not know if the origin of that tradition is known for certain, though there is more than one theory.

 

My Lord, the port is with you ....

 

 

 

A splendid portrayal of a clergyman. Unlike this, even though it might have been better if he had stuck to acting:

 

 

[Tom Burnham]

As regards the Oxon/Cantab divide, I've long thought that Oxford politicians assume they have a natural right to rule (Thatcher, Blair, Cameron, Johnson, etc , etc.), while those from Cambridge give the impression they would much rather be doing something else, but think if they left government to others, they'd make a total mess of it (e.g. Ken Clarke). The latter tend to appear in features about "the best prime ministers we never had". Probably both attitudes are equally arrogant, in different ways. There are exceptions - I feel Teresa May would have been happier with plain living and high thinking at Girton rather than whatever goes on at St Hugh's...

Edited September 12, 2021 by Tom Burnham
Autocorrect corrected.

[Nearholmer]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

And what was going on at Portsea?

Coal deliveries by sea, with coke and tar out by rail, at a guess.

 

”First.—To make and erect a new landing-place or hard, pier, or wharf, on and along the shore of the harbour of Portsmouth, on the eastern side of the Portsea Island Gas "Works, at or near Flat- house, and extending for a distance of 420 feet or thereabouts along the said shore from the eastern boundary wall of such gas works, and from time to time to make, dredge, deepen, and scour a channel or approach up to such landing-place, hard, pier, or wharf, commencing from the western end of Botten-row Lake where the same joins Fountain Lake, in the said harbour.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

 

46 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

As regards the Oxon/Cantab divide, I've long thought that Oxford politicians assume they have a natural right to rule (Thatcher, Blair, Cameron, Johnson, etc , etc.), while those from Cambridge give the impression they would much rather be doing something else, but think if they left government to others, they'd make a total mess of it (e.g. Ken Clarke). The latter tend to appear in features about "the best prime ministers we never had". Probably both attitudes are equally arrogant, in different ways. There are exceptions - I feel Teresa May would have been happier with plain living and high thinking at Girton rather than whatever goes on at St Hugh's...

 

 

I'll explain the difference ....

 

 

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

As regards the Oxon/Cantab divide, I've long thought that Oxford politicians assume they have a natural right to rule (Thatcher, Blair, Cameron, Johnson, etc , etc.), while those from Cambridge give the impression they would much rather be doing something else, but think if they left government to others, they'd make a total mess of it (e.g. Ken Clarke). The latter tend to appear in features about "the best prime ministers we never had". Probably both attitudes are equally arrogant, in different ways. There are exceptions - I feel Teresa May would have been happier with plain living and high thinking at Girton rather than whatever goes on at St Hugh's...

 

There's a lot in that. Oxford the home of the squirearchy's High Anglican Toryism; Cambridge of Whig noblesse oblige.

[Edwardian]

27 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Coal deliveries by sea, with coke and tar out by rail, at a guess.

 

”First.—To make and erect a new landing-place or hard, pier, or wharf, on and along the shore of the harbour of Portsmouth, on the eastern side of the Portsea Island Gas "Works, at or near Flat- house, and extending for a distance of 420 feet or thereabouts along the said shore from the eastern boundary wall of such gas works, and from time to time to make, dredge, deepen, and scour a channel or approach up to such landing-place, hard, pier, or wharf, commencing from the western end of Botten-row Lake where the same joins Fountain Lake, in the said harbour.

 

 

 

 

 

[drmditch]

On 09/09/2021 at 23:21, Andy Hayter said:

 

It is worth remembering that with the British fleet stationed at Scarpa Flow there will have been a massive traffic from all over the UK to supply said fleet.  This I suspect will have created a disproportionate mix of company vehicles which could well have perpetuated beyond the end of hostilities in 1919.

 

I understood that the coal-fired ships of the RN in 1915 burned Welsh steam coal (for preference).  This did lead to a massive traffic from South Wales and the 'Jellicoe Specials'.

I had thought that this had been discussed on RMWeb before, but I can't find a link.

 

There is a useful thread here

[drmditch]

Re: Variety of coal production.

This is a useful link:  Seams I live on top of

(except that since I live within 50 foot of a former NER 'secondary main line' the NER would have ensured that no mining was actually done underneath me!)

I used to live on top of these.

 

My locomotives and wagons are loaded with coal from both locations.

(Or at least found in my gardens.)

 

I may also have some 'sea coal' (the meaning of which phrase has been different over time) found on Alnmouth or Newbiggin beaches.

 

[Andy Hayter]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Stilton.

 

Indeed.  Luckily we can still get Blue Stilton (there is a white one as well so we should be precise in CA) here despite Brex(sh)it.  I hope it continues.  I fear it may not.  Cheddar and mature red Leicester - called old Rutland for some reason - are also still available to us British neighbours whose status has developed from Europeans to just foreigners.  

 

There are many superb French cheeses - mild and mature - but these three English cheeses cannot be matched - any more than some UK cheese could imitate Comte, Roquefort or a good Brie. 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, drmditch said:

Re: Variety of coal production.

This is a useful link:  Seams I live on top of

(except that since I live within 50 foot of a former NER 'secondary main line' the NER would have ensured that no mining was actually done underneath me!)

I used to live on top of these.

 

My locomotives and wagons are loaded with coal from both locations.

(Or at least found in my gardens.)

 

I may also have some 'sea coal' (the meaning of which phrase has been different over time) found on Alnmouth or Newbiggin beaches.

 

 

The new Lord Barnard (the old one pegged it a couple of years ago IIRC) has been annoying the locals with solicitor's letters claiming mineral rights, reserved no doubt in the mists of time over what has long since been freehold property.  It's a sort of scam; pay me money to surrender them or one day I might dig a mine under your house.

 

Bastard.

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, drmditch said:

Re: Variety of coal production.

This is a useful link:  Seams I live on top of

(except that since I live within 50 foot of a former NER 'secondary main line' the NER would have ensured that no mining was actually done underneath me!)

I used to live on top of these.

 

My locomotives and wagons are loaded with coal from both locations.

(Or at least found in my gardens.)

 

I may also have some 'sea coal' (the meaning of which phrase has been different over time) found on Alnmouth or Newbiggin beaches.

 

 

Limited of course to County Durham.  The Easington I lived in was not there but was subject to mining - ironstone.  We reckoned that being next to the church would be good juju - after all a miner would not want his relatives graves to drop into the workings! 

 

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Indeed.  Luckily we can still get Blue Stilton (there is a white one as well so we should be precise in CA) here despite Brex(sh)it.  I hope it continues.  I fear it may not.  Cheddar and mature red Leicester - called old Rutland for some reason - are also still available to us British neighbours whose status has developed from Europeans to just foreigners.  

 

There are many superb French cheeses - mild and mature - but these three English cheeses cannot be matched - any more than some UK cheese could imitate Comte, Roquefort or a good Brie. 

Vive la difference!

 

And they all have particular red wines that go well with them.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

The new Lord Barnard (the old one pegged it a couple of years ago IIRC) has been annoying the locals with solicitor's letters claiming mineral rights, reserved no doubt in the mists of time over what has long since been freehold property.  It's a sort of scam; pay me money to surrender them or one day I might dig a mine under your house.

 

The chances of getting planning permission for a coal mine are nil. His mineral rights are worthless.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Limited of course to County Durham.

No, I found Garforth (West Riding), where I lived for a few years.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The chances of getting planning permission for a coal mine are nil. His mineral rights are worthless.

 

Indeed, hence ''scam''.

 

Parasite trying to cash in, is all.

[ianathompson]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

When I had a secondary school year 9 tutor group, I did quite well at Christmas and the end of the summer term from those pupils whose parents understood What Teachers Need.

 

You did better at this than I did then!

I still see, and often drink, with my former 3rd year (now year 9) pupils but their parents obviously did not hold me in such high regard.

 

In fact one salient feature of my teaching career was the parent who offered to fight me at a parents' evening.

I was quite acceptable to this idea, (made a difference to the boring normal routine) and even went so far as to remove my tie before inviting him 'to bring it on'.

 i played rugby every weekend at the time, so was quite amenable to a bit of fisticuffs.

 

Unfortunately the other parents were appalled and dragged him away before we could begin to enjoy ourselves!

 

Ian T

Edited September 12, 2021 by ianathompson
typo

[Edwardian]

Progress creeps on ....

 

A fortnight, or 10 pages ago, we were here:

 

 

It is slow work, especially where the kits are having replacement bodies.

 

Now, we are here, edging toward the target of 48 West Norfolk Railway merchandise vehicles (which target exactly uses up my remaining store of Alan Gibson split spoke wheels, so I'll have to rub my coppers together for a re-order soon): 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hroth]

14 hours ago, ianathompson said:

 

You did better at this than I did then!

I still see, and often drink, with my former 3rd year (now year 9) pupils but their parents obviously did not hold me in such high regard.

 

In fact one salient feature of my teaching career was the parent who offered to fight me at a parents' evening.

I was quite acceptable to this idea, (made a difference to the boring normal routine) and even went so far as to remove my tie before inviting him 'to bring it on'.

 i played rugby every weekend at the time, so was quite amenable to a bit of fisticuffs.

 

Unfortunately the other parents were appalled and dragged him away before we could begin to enjoy ourselves!

 

Ian T

 

Given that you're not allowed to thrash the little oiks any more, beating up the parents should be quite acceptable.... 

[Edwardian]

Locomotive roster ....?

 

It seems insane to be expanding this, given how much work and investment left to manage, but I am haunted by the idea that I have too much line for my locomotive stud.

 

Someone, forgive me I forget who, made the excellent point that a significant number of locos would be in the works at any one time. Given that I am intending to model a particular season in a particular year, the choice of in-works locomotives can be fixed and unchanging.  These will not need to be modelled at all unless and until Aching constable Works is modelled, and, then, would be static models in various states of disassembly; part of the scenic work, almost.

 

Here is where we are now with what is planned.  Those in green are locos I resolved to add sometime ago, but never updated the list, and the Japanese Vulcan 2-4-0T has been added.  This is the list of 32 locomotives I mentioned earlier:

 

Mainline:

1861: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1861, WNR No. 11 - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1861: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1861, WNR No. 12 - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1863: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1863, WNR No. 14 - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1863: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1863, WNR No. 15 - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1875: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1874, WNR No. 4 - 4’6”- same type as Furness D1; ordered by FR, not purchased, went to WNR

18--:  0-6-0 Sharp Stewart of 1863, WNR No. ... - 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1874: 0-6-0 Beyer Peacock of 1874, WNR No. 20 – 4’9” - Ilfracombe Goods type

1880: 0-6-0 Beyer Peacock of 1880, WNR No. 22 – 5’ - standard BP similar to McDonnell 101 Class

1864: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1864, WNR No. 16 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1864: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1864, WNR No. 17 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1872: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No. 18 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1872: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No. 19 – 5’6 " - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1878: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1878, WNR No. 5 – 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1878: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1878, WNR No. 6 – 5’6” - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1883: 2-4-0 Crewe Type of 1857, ex Lancaster & Carlisle, WNR No. 24 – 5’1” - 3 sold by LNWR, the other 2 went to the E&MR

1895: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart/Melton Constable of 1874, ExCMR-E&MR, WNR No. 8 – 4’7” - Purchased from M&GN

1867: 4-4-0, Neilson & Co of 1866, WNR No. 7 - 4’6½” - Smaller version of Cowan's GNoSR K Class

1880: 4-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1880, WNR No. 23 - 5’ 6 ½” - same type as Cambrian SBC and Furness K1

1887: 4-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1887, WNR No. 26 - 5’ 6 ½” - same type as Cambrian SBC and Furness K1

1887: 4-4-0 Sharp Stewart of 1887, WNR No. ... - 5’ 6 ½” - same type as Cambrian SBC and Furness K1

1883: 4-4-0 Beyer Peacock of 1883, WNR No. 25 – 5’7” - similar to LSW Adams 380 Class 'Steamroller'

Achingham Branch:

1877: 0-4-2T, Neilson & Co/SW Johnson of 1877, WNR No. 1 - same as CV&HR GER T7 derivative

1872: 0-6-0T Sharp Stewart of 1872, WNR No. 3 - as also supplied to Furness and Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railways

Wolfringham Branch:

1877: 0-6-0ST Fox Walker of 1877, WNR No. 2 - same as supplied to Great Yarmouth & Stalham Lt Ry

1899: 0-6-0T Sharp Stewart of 1874, ExCMR-E&MR, WNR No. 9 - Purchased from M&GN

Birchoverham Staithe Branch:

1872 2-4-0T Vulcan Foundry

Fakeney Branch

1862: 2-2-2T Neilson & Co of 1862, WNR No. 13 - 5’ - standard gauge version of loco supplied to the Dublin & Drogheda Ry

1901: 0-6-0T Brighton Works/W Stroudley A1 of 1874 (No. 65), WNR No. 10 - Purchased from LB&SC

Works:

1878: 0-4-0ST Beyer Peacock of 1878, WNR No. 21 - similar BP's own Gorton works shunter

Bishop's Lynn Tramway:

1887: 0-4-0ST Black Hawthorn, BLT No.1 

1887: 0-4-0ST Black Hawthorn, BLT No.2

1888: 0-4-0 Tram Kitson (freelance), BLT No.3

 

Now, there are two further things I can do:

 

(1) Add 'ghost' locos, i.e. locos that will be in the works at the time the layout is set. Here I would prefer to use more of the Sharp Stewart 'standard types' or other 'repeats' because what is the point of identifying an attractive loco prototype for the WNR in order then to discount the possibility of ever modelling it?

 

(2) Add further locomotive models? Gulp. Well, there are a couple of 0-4-2 prototypes I am interested in, I am seduced by the idea of the Sharp Ottomans for the LT&SR and I could return to the idea of the 1880s Sharp 2-4-2 Radial tank, and, perhaps, even an 0-6-2T version for goods work?  

 

This could lead to something like this in addition to the locos listed above, with actual additions in Dark Green and 'ghost' locos in Light Green

 

187-- 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart, 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

187-- 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart, 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

187-- 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart, 4’6” - same type as Cambrian SGC and Furness D1

1874: 0-6-0 Beyer Peacock of 1874, 4’9” - Ilfracombe Goods type

1898: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart, 4’6” - same type as LT&SR 49 Class

1898: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart, 4’6” - same type as LT&SR 49 Class

188--: 0-6-2T Sharp Stewart 

188--: 0-6-2T Sharp Stewart

188--: 0-6-2T Sharp Stewart

1876: 0-4-2 Sharp Stewart - same as Thetford & Watton

1879: 0-4-2 Beyer Peacock - same as Nederlands-Indische Spoorweg Maatschappij

1879: 0-4-2 Beyer Peacock - same as Nederlands-Indische Spoorweg Maatschappij

187--: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart, 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

187--: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart, 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

187--: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart, 5’6" - same type as Cambrian SPC and Furness E1

1884:  2-4-2T Sharp Stewart 

1884:  2-4-2T Sharp Stewart 

1884:  2-4-2T Sharp Stewart 

 

This would involve (eventually) modelling a further 8 locos (groan), but gets the overall total to 50, of which 10 (20%) are in the Works at the time the layout is set.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[Compound2632]

40 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Any thoughts on this?

 

How many locomotives of any given class/type will be on-stage at any one time, in order to work the timetable as modelled?

 

Is there any class/type that would not normally work on the modelled section?

[Edwardian]

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

How many locomotives of any given class/type will be on-stage at any one time, in order to work the timetable as modelled?

 

As we don't have a timetable, that is rather hard to answer!

 

It will depend on whether Birchoverham Market and/or Aching Constable are included. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Is there any class/type that would not normally work on the modelled section?

 

To keep things representative I have tried  to plan to model two thirds of each of the classes. Unless and until Birchoverham Market is modelled, I would need far fewer mainline locos than I have planned and none of the Sharp/Beyer  4-4-0s. The reason for this is that all the Bury and Norwich traffic would be excluded. 

 

Likewise, without a model of BM I won't need Fakeney or Birchoverham Staithe branch locos. Without Aching Constable I don't need the Tramway stuff and probably not really the Wolfringham stuff.

 

If, however, I am ultimately able to include both BM and AC in the scheme, I think I can legitimately include every loco, including those in the shops.

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Any thoughts on this?

My first thought would be that it is unnecessary, and possibly distracting, to build the loco fleet too far ahead of the building of the scenic layout. You only need a reasonable representation of what is likely to turn-up at CA itself, until you build somewhere else.

 

My second thought is that sometimes it will be a good idea to grab things as they become available, either secondhand oddities, or short-run new things, because there might only be one opportunity.

 

My third thought is that the rule of N+1, applied by cyclists to calculate how many bikes they “need” to own, where N is the number of bikes currently owned, has a habit of becoming N+5 with model locos, and once the little blighters have wormed their way into the house, it is really hard to eject them. In short, before you know it, you can have too many.

 

Having caved-in and become a collector, I don’t much worry about all this now, except in space-consumption terms, I buy things if I like them and can afford them, but when I was into freelance NG mini-empire layouts, I grappled with all the stuff you are thinking about - fortunately at that stage r-t-r 009 didn’t exist, so it was all kit-building, and I was fairly skint, both of which applied helpful retardation.

 

 

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

including those in the shops.

 

An erecting shop scene, with engines stripped down to their frames and unclad boilers, would make an interesting and unusual model. Also, perhaps, a convenient place to park those stalled projects?

 

This is on the large scale:

 

 

Derby, 23 July 1910. [DY 9320, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.]

 

Highbridge would be more the scale; photo here, thanks to @phil_sutters; evidently boilers were being dealt with elsewhere.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Compound2632

[kingfisher9147]

Here is some useful information for you. Out of Midland railway society journal no. 76 summer 2021

 

[Edwardian]

15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

My first thought would be that it is unnecessary, and possibly distracting, to build the loco fleet too far ahead of the building of the scenic layout. You only need a reasonable representation of what is likely to turn-up at CA itself, until you build somewhere else.

 

My second thought is that sometimes it will be a good idea to grab things as they become available, either secondhand oddities, or short-run new things, because there might only be one opportunity.

 

My third thought is that the rule of N+1, applied by cyclists to calculate how many bikes they “need” to own, where N is the number of bikes currently owned, has a habit of becoming N+5 with model locos, and once the little blighters have wormed their way into the house, it is really hard to eject them. In short, before you know it, you can have too many.

 

Having caved-in and become a collector, I don’t much worry about all this now, except in space-consumption terms, I buy things if I like them and can afford them, but when I was into freelance NG mini-empire layouts, I grappled with all the stuff you are thinking about - fortunately at that stage r-t-r 009 didn’t exist, so it was all kit-building, and I was fairly skint, both of which applied helpful retardation.

 

 

 

All good points and my thoughts here are:

 

1. Have everything planned,  not least so that the locos modelled fit in a coherent whole 

 

2. While things are available and I 'm still earning, buy the stuff necessary to complete the roster 

 

4. Build the stuff I need or at least can legitimately use on the initial iteration of the layout 

 

But, as all should be capable of realisation eventually,  not to go too mad!