Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I have been pondering the Norwich extension and wondering why it runs from Aching Constable south and loops east under castle aching, rather than Castle Acing being converted to a through station by the extension, perhaps with different platform heights and building styles between the original and the remodelled/additional platform. 
 

This would also keep the Norwich traffic off the main line from AC as long as possible. Indeed, if capacity was an issue you could pull the IOW trick and have parallel single tracks running from ACN junction to BM one for BM- CA and one for AC-BM.

 

D

 

Because my model railway is a terminus station.

 

But yes, you're right. 

 

No doubt there will be some explanation possible for this undoubted quirk.

[Andy Hayter]

Clearly with a recalcitrant Lord Malatease whose estate spanned all of the southern part of CA and indeed further south, the WNR had no choice but to circumnavigate his empire when he refused all overtures to cross his land.

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Clearly with a recalcitrant Lord Malatease whose estate spanned all of the southern part of CA and indeed further south, the WNR had no choice but to circumnavigate his empire when he refused all overtures to cross his land.

 

Indeed.  While the Erstwhiles of Aching Hall were all for it, there must have been some Norfolk equivalent of the Dukes of Cleveland (who kept the Burghers of Barnard Castle cut off from the Stockton & Darlington for over twenty years). 

 

Also we can consider other railway companies frustrating 'direct' routes in Parliament, with the indirect one getting in through the back door. 

[Edwardian]

Deep breath .....

 

Here I am conscious that my task is the lesser; seeking to understand a masterful timetabling effort that I could not have hoped to put together. 

 

Linny and I reckoned that the best way to keep track of what is going on is to colour-code.  This morning, using Kevin's revised version, I have sought to continue Linny's work, though I have not managed to crack it entirely.

 

Let me set out where I've got to so that:

 

(i) We can see the extent to which I have understood it;

 

(ii) Any corrections, desirable changes or additions can be considered.

 

Here is Kevin's revised diagram in its unadulterated form:

 

 

Here is the same version after I've emptied my crayon box:

 

 

Here is an attempt at a key to the colour-coding, which explains what I do, and do not, understand.

 

 

 

There are some real glories here:

 

- The combination of the two goods services at CA in the morning;

 

- The use of the loop for two passenger trains to subsist at CA

 

- The mixed train

 

There is a rational economy of movement and deployment of motive power that would appease a steam-age Traffic Manager even if on occasion it fails to satiate the unprototypical greed of the modeller! 

 

Finally, here are some general observations, which I hope may be helpful, or least, hopeful, that might lead to changes or additions: 

 

- The BM - CA - Ach. diagrams work well, however, all services work between the three places, seemingly using two trains starting from opposite ends, to do this.  This has removed the Achingham Branch Train - a locomotive and carriage set long planned!!   

 

- The MR, M&GN and GNR through services are shown.  No GER through services are accommodated.  While not featuring on the layout, the track occupancy of these through services needs to be factored in.  I think, however, there are two types of through services to consider

 

(i) Resort.  These are longer distance expresses/express portions.  They all proceed via AC and ACNJ to BM.

- Included are the MR Leicester portion and a GNR train (which could be ex-Boston). These go to Birchoverham Market (for Birchoverham-next-the-Sea) and do not return (the services shown grey) until much later.  This seems appropriate, and I can see how the MR and GNR coaches would, as resort trains, be stabled during the day in carriage sidings and return at the end of a day out. 

- Not included are the GER equivalents, which I suspect are ex-Liverpool Street or Cambridge. I foresaw two such trains.  They could be scheduled similarly to the MR and GN trains. 

 

(ii) Regional  The MGN service (South Lynn - Hillingham - BM) is a more local service, and should probably just go there and back again without a long-lay-over.    I also wanted a GER equivalent, off the Lynn & Hunstanton.  I realise that such services might be historically less likely, but, still .... 

 

Profound thanks once again to Kevin for this.

 

Many thinks to Linny for a very pleasurable evening inter alia going over this.

 

I look forward to further feedback/amendment/explanation/completion.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Edwardian
Corrections

[Nearholmer]

53 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

look forward to further feedback/amendment/explanation/completion.

I was rather hoping that this extended worked example might be sufficient to convey the necessary angling skills.

 

It might be worth explaining what I envisage to be happening at CA in the late afternoon:

 

- there is a loco present, having come from B with goods in the morning, and having been around most of the day acting as shunter/pilot when needed.

 

- c4:20 a train arrives from Ach, terminates and the coaches are put in the loop, and the loco has a rest.

 

- just after 5pm a train arrives from B.

 

- the resting passenger loco is the Ach shed engine, so takes over this train and goes to Ach for the night.

 

- c540, the other passenger loco departs with most, but not all of the stabled coaches to B, it being the loco from B shed.

 

- just after 6pm the train that has been to AC for the day comes back, runs round and goes home to Ach.

 

- finally, the good/pilot engine gathers up any goods for B, and the leftover coaches, and puffs very slowly home to bed at B, shunting H on the way if necessary, but usually it isn’t.

 

- and so, to bed.

 

If this works (check!) it should get all locos back to home sheds, while the two main sets of coaches run on a two day circuit.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

55 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

It might be worth explaining what I envisage to be happening at CA in the late afternoon:

 

- there is a loco present, having come from B with goods in the morning, and having been around most of the day acting as shunter/pilot when needed.

 

- c4:20 a train arrives from Ach, terminates and the coaches are put in the loop, and the loco has a rest.

 

- just after 5pm a train arrives from B.

 

- the resting passenger loco is the Ach shed engine, so takes over this train and goes to Ach for the night.

 

- c540, the other passenger loco departs with most, but not all of the stabled coaches to B, it being the loco from B shed.

 

- just after 6pm the train that has been to AC for the day comes back, runs round and goes home to Ach.

 

Thanks, Kevin.

 

Ah, so the Light Blue Train that departed Achingham a little before 9am?

 

See amended table.

 

Two questions remain:

 

- What is it doing all day at Achingham Constable?

 

- What is the bit marked yellow circled red on the amended table, please?

 

 

55 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

- finally, the good/pilot engine gathers up any goods for B, and the leftover coaches, and puffs very slowly home to bed at B, shunting H on the way if necessary, but usually it isn’t.

 

- and so, to bed.

 

If this works (check!) it should get all locos back to home sheds, while the two main sets of coaches run on a two day circuit.

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Ah, so the Light Blue Train that departed Achingham a little before 9am?

 

- What is it doing all day at Achingham Constable?

 

If it wasn't a 9 am departure, I'd have assumed that it was a working for your oldest and most decrepit set of carriages. But 9 am is a bit too much peak time for first class passengers.

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

What is it doing all day at Achingham Constable?

Mouldering in a siding as things stand.
 

If AC has “the works”, it might usefully get checked over, brakes adjusted, any blocks changed that need it etc during that window, and by exchanging sets at Ach each morning, to create one three-day diagram, with the sets a day behind one another on it, each set would be on this turn, and “get the once over” every third day, which feels good.

 

Another option is that it might be quite nice as a portion attached to one of the outgoing long-distance trains.

 

Or maybe the stock forms some part of the Wolfringham diagram in the middle of the day.

 

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

What is the bit marked yellow circled red on the amended table, please?

 

The c5:40pm departure to BM, see my previous about what is going on at CA in late afternoon. It is composed of most, but not all, of the dark blue set of carriages, the residuary being part of the later mixed train.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

If it wasn't a 9 am departure, I'd have assumed that it was a working for your oldest and most decrepit set of carriages. But 9 am is a bit too much peak time for first class passengers.

It goes to AC, then back much later, to provide connection from Ach and CA into and out of the flight of three long distance trains. Anyone on it and wanting the last of those out, or returning to WN on the first of those in the afternoon, has a tediously long wait at AC, so I hope there is a good refreshment room there!

It’s other purpose is to deal with NPCS on/off those long distance trains, typically horse boxes, and to convey parcels in both directions - I reckon there ought to be a fair number of railway parcels coming into WN this way, because it is the logical route for all high-value/low-volume manufactured goods.

 

But, madly long waits at country junctions seem to be a feature of Bradshaw, so it’s not unrealistic, and these days people “happily” spend hours in transit lounges at airports.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Thanks for the clarifications, Kevin.

 

i think, thus, your scheme is now rendered correctly in terms of my colour-coding:

 

 

Which allows me to follow 'at a glance', and relate it to the locus in quo:

 

[Nearholmer]

I think so.

 

I’m seeing the loco diagrams matching the stock diagrams, except for the late afternoon swap over at CA, to get B and Ach engines back to their own sheds.

 

Personally, I think it makes CA on its own interesting enough to operate. It’s simply trains in and out, but at least they have purpose and a bit of variety.

 

But, for the grander scheme, you might want to have another go at this yourself, because I defaulted to using AC as a “gateway” point, which might mean that a model of BM gets under-used on the layout. If you make BM the “gateway”, it diminishes the role of AC, and I wonder whether the AC-BM line might need to be double-track to accommodate all the traffic.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[kingfisher9147]

I hope you have taking into consideration, specials like circus train, urgent perishable like fish, milk. Also allow for pway work, breakdown. 

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, kingfisher9147 said:

I hope you have taking into consideration, specials like circus train, urgent perishable like fish, milk. Also allow for pway work, breakdown. 

 

Theatre trains and PW trains - Sundays!

 

As for .......

 

[Regularity]

At least the elephant isn’t in the room!

[wagonman]

17 hours ago, kingfisher9147 said:

I hope you have taking into consideration, specials like circus train, urgent perishable like fish, milk. Also allow for pway work, breakdown. 

 

I would discount fish/milk traffic. This part of Norfolk is mostly arable with no dairy to speak of. Any fish is probably carted from the coast. Circus trains are even rarer!

 

Grain traffic might be worth thinking about though...

[DonB]

Mikkel has a section of his blog titled "How to eat an Elephant"

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

I would discount fish/milk traffic. This part of Norfolk is mostly arable with no dairy to speak of. Any fish is probably carted from the coast. Circus trains are even rarer!

 

Grain traffic might be worth thinking about though...

 

Urgent perishable:

 

 

Or is that more South Lincs than West Norfolk?

[Edwardian]

55 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

I would discount fish/milk traffic. This part of Norfolk is mostly arable with no dairy to speak of. Any fish is probably carted from the coast. Circus trains are even rarer!

 

I had, mostly, though I do have the Condensed Milk Van model, so, am tempted by miIk.  And, EDIT, there will be some fish landed - Lynn had a fishing fleet, and there would be inshore fishing from Birchoverham Staithe and Fakeney - but I had assumed this a fairly local trade; no trains of fitted fish vans heading for the Smoke, so, no, I hadn't planned any dedicated rolling stock or workings for fish traffic. I'm conscious of a lot of lazy assumptions here, however. 

 

Achingham has an egg depot, however!

 

 

55 minutes ago, wagonman said:

Grain traffic might be worth thinking about though...

 

Hadn't thought of that, thanks.

 

Certainly wheat was a major Norfolk product.

 

Kelly's Directory makes a claim for contemporary Norfolk's 4-stage crop rotation: Wheat, then root crop, then barley, then clover or mixed-seed lay.  Where heavy soils obtain, the hay crop stage of the cycle is alternated with peas or beans.  

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Urgent perishable:

 

 

Or is that more South Lincs than West Norfolk?

 

The Wisbech area was certainly the source of much fruit traffic. 

 

Fruit and, indeed, Cider, are listed in Kelly's 1904 Directory as among the principal produce and I believe that Norfolk has a fine tradition of apple orchards and local varieties. 

 

Browsing the Directory will no doubt identify the market-gardeners and fruit growers in their localities.

 

However, to place fruit cultivation in perspective, here is how land in Norfolk was used, according to 1903 returns:

 

EDIT: The reference to Rutland is intriguing; typo?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[jcredfer]

When I was posted, or working, in Norfolk, the presence of vast acres of Sugar Beet was very evident.  {As, at appropriate times, was the reek from the Beet extraction factories!}

 

 

[CKPR]

4 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

As, at appropriate times, was the reek from the Beet extraction factories!

Tell me about ! My clinical placements in York in the early 1990s always seemed to coincide with the 'campaign' as I think the seasonal processing of sugar beet was called.

[Nearholmer]

Why does it mention Rutland? 
 

Anyone who fancies adding in “specials” now has a draft WTT to try it on, and will discover that it isn’t easy finding paths on a singleminded railway with oodles of junctions.

 

If we have fruit, or quick-wilting vegetables, to ship-out, what is really needed is a train early-evening going to the metropoli (sp?) “beyond”, that can take either entire van loads or a good number of baskets and crates. Then a local service to connect into it.

 

I would probably extend the shift of the loco that has been pilot all day at CA, and have that run about the place with a few vans, connecting at either BM or AC with this putative long-distance train. The timing of the mixed can easily be held-back to suit.

[petethemole]

I would expect grain traffic to be dominated by barley for brewers.  A local maltings would receive grain in and ship malt out (like Snape).  Some wheat and oats would be milled locally for the local market but bagged grain to larger mills out of your area would probably be loaded in sheeted open wagons in your period.   A good resource for the number of active mills in Norfolk is:  http://www.norfolkmills.co.uk/mills.html

A lot of the local windmills appear to go out of business in the 1890s.

 

 

[Compound2632]

39 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

When I was posted, or working, in Norfolk, the presence of vast acres of Sugar Beet was very evident.  {As, at appropriate times, was the reek from the Beet extraction factories!}

 

Sugar beet seems to have been a post-Great War innovation, in response to sugar shortages due to the difficulties of import during the war. I'm fairly sure it can be discounted as a traffic for 1905. If there is some experimental gentleman farmer in the area, he's probably doing his own processing.

[wagonman]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

However, to place fruit cultivation in perspective, here is how land in Norfolk was used, according to 1903 returns:

 

 

 

 

 Bear in mind these figures are for the whole of Norfolk. NW Norfolk is very different to South Norfolk (Breckland – main export rabbits) or indeed East Norfolk (heavier soils, smaller, predominantly mixed farms). NW Norfolk is large estates, arable, 'High Farming' as Arthur Young called it. More recently Susannah Wade-Martins has done a lot of work on this, ad of course Christine Hiskey has written the definitive history of the Holkham Estate. 

 

My village was littered with small orchards – we still have a fig tree and an espaliered pear  tree in our garden, but I presume it was mostly/all for local consumption. Holt station had a granary owned by Page & Turner of Blakeney, presumably built when they stopped using their ships and transferred their trade to the railway at the end of the C19th. I managed to grab a quick photo of it just before it was demolished – unfortunately the non-railway side. There was a central lucam on the other frontage.

Edited September 20, 2021 by wagonman

[Nearholmer]

See here for a failed experiment in importing continental-style industrialised agriculture to england https://buscot-park.com/history/an-industrialised-agricultural-estate-in-berkshire

 

I have highlighted this before, because I like it so much, so I hope I'm not boring people too much.