Castle Aching

[wagonman]

There a mountain warehouse shop in Holt!

 

 

 

Good God, where?

[Shadow]

Good God, where?

On top of the hill?

[wagonman]

There will be 2.

 

1 church, 1 castle, 2 pubs.

 

Balance is restored to the Galaxy.

 

 

On top of the hill?

 

 

Ah yes, the Norfolk Alps. Holt is about 200 feet above sea level – as is much of the surrounding area...

[wagonman]

There will be 2.

 

1 church, 1 castle, 2 pubs.

 

Balance is restored to the Galaxy.

 

Only 2 pubs? Come, come; you can do better than that! My village had – according to the 1912 Kelly's – 4 pubs, 2 bakers, 2 grocers/drapers, 2 blacksmiths, 2 boot repairers, 1 butcher, 1 basket maker, 1 hair dresser, 1 stationer/post office, and, famously, 1 taxidermist! And that was just the tradespeople with shops – there were plenty of other tradesmen such as carpenters, wheelwrights, millers, painters, dressmakers etc. There was even a bank, albeit only on Tuesday afternoons. Communities were perforce much more self-sufficient in those days. One thing we didn't have was a railway station though it almost happened...

[Adams442T]

Lyonshall a small village in Hereford, last stop on the drover's route into Hereford, had 15 (!) pubs at one time...................  Unfortunately by the time I moved there it was reduced to one. 

[Edwardian]

They'd heard you were coming?

 

2 pubs featuring on the model, that is.  Obviously Castle Aching has more than 2 pubs!

[HeeleyBridge]

When my village was still a village, it had three pubs in less than 100 yards on the same road, two on opposite corners of the same side road. It's no longer a village, but miraculously the pubs are still there. In the same 100 yards there were 2 butchers, a bakers, 2 grocers and a bootmaker. Now it has a furniture shop ...

 

I blame that flippin' railway that came through in 1870 ...

[Edwardian]

Loyal Readers will recall that this layout is a shoe-string, use up what you have lying around, affair.  One of the things I had lying around was one of those old Fleischmann 4-wheel coaches, similar to the one pictured below.  The frames are narrow and the body rests on brackets.  The roof is curved like a Romanesque arch.  All a bit too foreign?  Well, the roof profile can be eased, and some early coaches were built out like this, e.g. see the LBSC 4 and 6-wheel coach volume, before they'd got the hang of tumblehomes.

 

How to Anglicise it to represent a freelance light railway coach?

 

I warned everyone I would be a basher.  Those with a sensitive disposition, please look away now.

 

I had some Hornby carriage wheels and it struck me that this would raise the ride height and alter the appearance considerably.  In order to fit larger wheels, it was first necessary to slice off the moulded brake shoes.  On the last one, I also managed to slice right through my finger, nail and all, and on the way to the Minor Injuries Clinic, I planned what to do with the body.

 

I decided to alter the roof profile to something shallower and more typically UK.  This involved replacing the roof. Experiments with plastic card, hot water and brass tube were fruitless, so I did what I always should have done; use card.  You know where you are with cardboard.

 

Being HO, the sides were a tad low.  Not necessarily a problem for early coaches, but I saw a further opportunity to disguise the coach's origins and, so, built up the sides with plastic card.  The body is now the same height it was before the roof profile was lowered.  Work in progress shot included below left.

 

I added a second loo and an internal partition, so this is now an Open 1st-2nd Lav. Composite!

Edited February 14, 2016 by Edwardian

[Stubby47]

You've turned that grey box into the green coach with yellow frames ? Very impressive !

[BG John]

That looks too easy. I'm still trying to come up with ideas with what to do with my monster O gauge Lima continental bogie coach. That's far more of an interesting challenge!!

[Edwardian]

Yes, all for making things easy - difficulty is sometimes unavoidable, but is never an aim in itself - though the very sore finger means that I have at least suffered for my art.

 

I thought the work-in-progress picture below might make matters a little clearer:

[Edwardian]

Thanks Simon. What a great little coach.  I wish I had one more like that prototype.  Still, with my little German coach it's a case of unconscious imitation; I note the bracket-supported overhanging body and the fact that it is oil lit, as I intended mine to be.

 

Here it is so far.  I have added planked floors to the verandahs, buffer beams and railings at each end. I still need to add roof, underframe and buffer beam detail and steps. I am still in 2 minds about the 'experimental' livery, executed by my far-from-steady hand.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Good stuff!

 

The LVR wasn't the only British LR to get sensible and use verandah coaches. This should link to an original Rother Valley train photo http://www.hfstephens-museum.org.uk/other-topics/27-topics/kent-a-east-sussex-light-railway, (scroll down, and there is a photo, and internal plans) and there were others, the Wisbech & Upwell having both four wheelers and bogie stock, IIRC. Irish narrow gauge lines had lots of these sorts of coaches too, and I think some Irish SG LRs too.

 

And, if you want a particularly silly coach, which would be dead-easy to scratchbuild on a German/French chassis, of the kind that get into the 50p box at shows, try the Brill Tramway homemade four-wheeler, which had verandahs, but side-entry compartments, one at each end for passengers, and one in the middle for light goods is a candidate. There is a full sized replica of it a the Bucks Railway Centre.

 

I do have slight reservations about your livery, which looks German to me (which railway, I can't recall, but definitely one). I don't think any of the British or Irish LRs had a bi-colour livery (someone will know different), so would go for plain "lake" or something similarly dull.

 

Kevin

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

PS:

 

Making roofs (rooves?)

 

Alternatives to card:

 

- tinplate, snipped out from olive tins, which don't have corrugations in them;

 

- aluminium from beer or "pop" tins (its a bit thin though);

 

- layers of thin plasticard (10 or 15 thou), which will follow the curve without pre-bending/heating, but can easily be formed by sellotaping tightly to a beer can, filling that with boiling water, then cool water. Laminate in-situ, and always use an odd number of laminations (3 is enough in 4mm scale);

 

- use "planks" of thin wood or plastic strip, and build roof JLTRT, then lightly sand to better curve, and cover with a single foil of loo roll tissue, laid in place dry and lightly flooded with glue.

 

I use the final method in 16mm scale, using wood "planks", which I them cover with a bit of worn out bed sheet, soaked on with diluted PVA. It is exactly like a real wagon/coach roof, in that the plank lines are ever-so-faintly visible, and the covering tends to ever-so-slightly wrinkle, JLTRT after a few years in service.

 

K

[Edwardian]

Kevin, many thanks for the feedback.  And thanks to all who post "likes".  As with the buildings, it's always encouraging for the beginner to receive them (especially as he doesn't know what he's doing and is rather making it up as he goes along!)

 

I think your posts warrant a full response, Kevin, as it helps me to edge towards the look and style for the West Norfolk, within the limitations of what I have available.  Here are my thoughts, so far, on coaches and coach liveries:

 

• The WNR is not a Light Railway in the strict sense.  It is a small independent line.  Thus, it has something of the Light Railway about it, but is not necessarily constrained by Light Railway practice or equipment.   I have plans for some more conventional 4-wheel stock as well.

• In terms of coach livery, in general I feel that I am free to adopt a two-tone livery, and planned to do so with conventional panelled 4-wheel stock.

• The German coach was all-over green, and I had seen a similar style of coach look well in a two-tone livery, hence I thought I would give it a go.

• However, I, like you, am not persuaded that this coach looks best in a two-tone livery.  This may be because, where such verandah coaches are used on UK standard gauge railways, they tend to be a single colour.  A single colour, I conclude, suits this style of coach better. 

Conclusion?  Well, as it happens, I had thought that dark red or 'lake' would be a good alternative as a single colour livery, so we are in agreement there. 

 

Perhaps with a single yellow/gold line along the waistband beading.  I might keep the black lining to the other beading, or, I could just leave them Lake.

 

Any other ideas, views, suggestions would be welcome.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

I tend to agree that conventional-British coaches look better in a two-toned livery (as long as it isn't LYR livery, which I think was also IoMR or MNR original livery, which always looks horrible to me!), because it emphasises the intricacy of the panelling.

 

Have you got a copy of:

 

CARRIAGE STOCK OF MINOR STANDARD GAUGE RAILWAYS

KIDNER R W

 

Published by OAKWOOD PRESS (1978)

 

If not, it is a few pounds well spent. Not mega-detail, but enough to give a flavour of what the smaller railways, Light and Not-Quite, used.

 

K

 

PS: my moribund garden railway is supposed to have two nice scratch-built verandah bogie coaches, but construction stalled on the day my son was born, and eight years later they remain two-thirds finished! In the interim, the small plastic people have to travel in ............... two German four-wheelers, lightly amended to look vaguely Irish, and painted in faded "lake".

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Kevin, thanks for that, I will look out for that title, which is new to me.

 

I had thought of some coaches based upon 1880s Oldbury designs, but this book would doubtless provide many other options.  Of course, I feel I really need to master graphics and cutting software and then afford a Silhouette cutter before a coach-building project for any railway becomes practicable, hence playing about with odds and ends like this German coach.

[Northroader]

That coach you've made isn't a million miles, in looks, from the saloon of the steam railcar of your other thread, and this looks well in two colours. I'd suggest the ventilators above the windows get the dark green , then do some lining out in yellow/ orange.

[Edwardian]

Thanks, Northroader.

 

This puts me back in 2-minds!  The two-tone example I liked was OO9, but, I think the arrangement of the beading was different.  The layout of the beading is one of the reasons I am not wholly convinced by the light upper panels on my coach.

 

If I were starting again, I would probably plump for all-over Lake.  But, as things are, I have a painted coach, which is a natural disincentive for changing the scheme.

 

Dark green on the ventilators might help, and I am most grateful for the suggestion.

 

As to lining out in yellow/orange, I am not sure what you mean and would be concerned that this would be beyond me (witness my somewhat poor black lining, even where I had moulded beading to follow!

 

If it helps in the canvassing of views, in order to provide Third Class accommodation, I aim to press into service in a continental outline verandah bogie coach!  This is a somewhat racy option for Edwardian Norfolk, I feel, as, by my period, the Great Eastern had barely introduced bogie coaches (outside Royal stock) and I'm sure the MGN had none!  The explanation is, of course, that the article was manufactured for a South American railway, but the order was cancelled and, so, it was going cheap. I expect it to be my one and only bogie coach for the layout.

 

So, the livery for the 4-wheeler, whichever is chosen, will probably also be applied to a rather American-looking bogie coach, with matchboard siding up to waist height.  What do  we think?    

[Nearholmer]

Well, I think you are following a trend set by Mr Ahern, who had an American bogie coach on the Madder Valley, and the Schull and Skibereen, which had a "cancelled foreign order" coach (it is one of my two unfinished garden railway symphonies).

 

How do your dates relate to the Wisbech and Upwell bogie coaches, built in 1884?

 

K

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

I think there may have been a precedent for a S. American bogie coach on the WC&P, but my memory may be faulty as it so often is these days.

 

1884 works well.  I think the West Norfolk must have begun sometime in the 1870s, but seems to have built up stock during the '80s!  The great thing about the W&U coaches is the combination of conventional UK-style body panelling with the essentially foreign or colonial verandah style.

 

You remind me that somewhere buried in my years of accumulated tat I have 2 part-built D&S W&U coaches!  These are probably rare as Rocking Horse manure these days, so a lucky acquisition.  I always intended to finish these in the original Great Eastern livery, and, on reflection, that remains my intention.  It strikes me, though, that this works well for the West Norfolk, as it is conceived as part-owned and very much kept going by the GER.  I have already imagined that a Johnson engine very much like a T7 was supplied and maintained by the GER, so what could be more natural, then, than the GER also lending a couple of W&U style coaches to the line!  In due course, if I can think of a pretext, the GER might even lend the WNR a G15 tram engine!

 

Anyway, that is to get way ahead of myself.  I haven't finished a first coach yet!

[Edwardian]

Cracking Irish picture you've just put up there, Kevin.  Don't! It's hard enough trying to do any kind of RTR-based UK Pre-Grouping; don't make me yearn for Irish railways, not when there's no 21mm gauge track or chassis out there to give me a start!

[Nick Holliday]

Good stuff!

 

The LVR wasn't the only British LR to get sensible and use verandah coaches. This should link to an original Rother Valley train photo http://www.hfstephens-museum.org.uk/other-topics/27-topics/kent-a-east-sussex-light-railway, (scroll down, and there is a photo, and internal plans) and there were others, the Wisbech & Upwell having both four wheelers and bogie stock, IIRC. Irish narrow gauge lines had lots of these sorts of coaches too, and I think some Irish SG LRs too.

 

And, if you want a particularly silly coach, which would be dead-easy to scratchbuild on a German/French chassis, of the kind that get into the 50p box at shows, try the Brill Tramway homemade four-wheeler, which had verandahs, but side-entry compartments, one at each end for passengers, and one in the middle for light goods is a candidate. There is a full sized replica of it a the Bucks Railway Centre.

 

I do have slight reservations about your livery, which looks German to me (which railway, I can't recall, but definitely one). I don't think any of the British or Irish LRs had a bi-colour livery (someone will know different), so would go for plain "lake" or something similarly dull.

 

Kevin

The Selsey Tramway seems to have acquired some of the LVR stock, and they also bought around 1897 some bogie carriages with end platforms from Falcon and Hurst Nelson.  There are photos on the internet that seem to show the former in bi-colour livery.

The K&ESR had a steam railmotor that was definitely painted in two tone livery.  A good website to see these and other light rail goodies is Steam and Things, in Australia.  Many gems, including all the above, and various early IC railcars, Fords, Wolseley etc. and the WC&PR early Drewry, are available as etchings, and the website is full of background information as well.  http://steamandthings.com/fpage2.htm Just check the exchange rate for the Australian dollar before commenting on the prices.

The Garstang and Knott End Railway had some American style bogie coaches, as did the WC&P, which sound similar to your matchboarded item.  I have tried to go down this route, but have stalled because the platform height, floor to ceiling, would have restricted travellers to the seven dwarfs, Snow White would have had to ride  on the footplate of the loco, but I suppose a bit more modification, along the lines of your raised roof, would sort that out, with proper sized wheels to get the buffer height sorted. With the matchboarding I would be tempted to go for a varnished wood finish, rather than paint, but that's just my personal view.

[Nearholmer]

There's RTR track for that one: 12mm, representing 3ft.

 

Or, as I do, when time permits: 45mm, representing 3ft at 1:20 scale.

 

The great advantage of the latter is that Playmobil people look about right!

 

Or, 32mm, representing 3ft in Gauge 1 scale.

 

There is no excuse not to model these railways. Sorry!

 

K

 

PS: and,the W&U coaches were used on the KelVedon & Tollesbury (Corrected from MSLR) pulled by what look like GER suburban tank engines to me.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[K14]

I think there may have been a precedent for a S. American bogie coach on the WC&P, but my memory may be faulty as it so often is these days.

Quite correct. More here:— http://www.wcpr.org.uk/Carriages.html

That low-profile clere deck looks er... 'fun'.

 

A not dissimilar design (but without the clere) was used on the ANDR:— http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56665-coaches-for-the-alexandra-newport-and-south-wales-docks-railway/