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And that is the Kerry coach I meant, though it can also be seen more clearly in some other photos. I actually have an Oakwood Press bookmark with that photo.

How times change. When i was a student Woodbines were sold singly to the punters in Victoria Park, Cardiff, from the icecream caravan where I worked in the summer.

I am not sure about Prussian Blue in East Anglia - I know the GER used it - as unless very good quality paint was used I would have expected it to fade badly during all those sunny days I am sure they had then (well, a lot more than in mid Wales!). As long as you don't use apple,  GWR or Cambrian (invisible?) versions, I think green becometh most locos.

There. I have managed to upset most modellers in one sentence.

Seriously, I think that 'slightly modified' GWR 14xx looks most promising. Certainly more aesthetically pleasing than this one:

 

No50%20crampton.jpg

 

Jonathan

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It's funny, from the inception of this project I had this GER inspired Adams 0-4-2T for the Colne Valley in mind as the branch passenger tank for Castle Aching.  Mine will also have a cab, though it will wear WNR green, not CV&HR black and she will not sport the extra tanks added to her Essex sister.

 

Apart from the fact that I like the CV&HR locomotive and her GER cousins, she seemed like the perfect choice for a GER-sponsored minor line like the WNR.

 

Just recently, we have decided that the WNR dates from the 1850s (hitherto I had assumed 1870s).  This has led to some fascinating speculation concerning the first generation of WNR motive power.

 

This takes me full circle back to the CV&HR, which was authorised in 1856 and had just the sort of motive power we have been discussing for the WNR; an ex-Brighton Railway Sharp Stewart 2-2-2 tank and an E B Wilson product!

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post-25673-0-10712500-1463866927.jpg

post-25673-0-29434100-1463866950.jpg

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What of the GN premium apprentice slung out of Doncaster (or was it Boston works) because he was colour blind propositioning the WNR with his bilious green, pink and yellow apprentice piece?

post-21705-0-21696000-1463869076.jpg

Was that not how the WNR's curious improved engine 'gelb' originated?

 

dh

demonstrating the glorious technicolour potential of photishoppe :paint:

 

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I look forward to seeing those on the layout. Plasfynnon was a Sharp Stewart loco, I think the Cambrian had three of them the others being Prometheus and Mountaineer. I couldn't find anything on google under Sharp Stewart so I couldn't see if anyone else had the same locos. However Sharp Stewart did tend to have set designs which they sold to various buyers sometimes with a few changes. Model licenece would allow one to have gone to Norfolk.

Don

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I look forward to seeing those on the layout. Plasfynnon was a Sharp Stewart loco, I think the Cambrian had three of them the others being Prometheus and Mountaineer. I couldn't find anything on google under Sharp Stewart so I couldn't see if anyone else had the same locos. However Sharp Stewart did tend to have set designs which they sold to various buyers sometimes with a few changes. Model licenece would allow one to have gone to Norfolk.

Don

 

Plans for the West Norfolk's stud are still developing.  Those for the Isle of Eldernell have been established for some time.

 

Research reveals the connections (not physical) between the two lines.

 

The WNR became the first railway in west Norfolk; the line was opened from 1857-58 and, so, preceded both the north-west Lynn and Hunstanton (later GER), and the two east-west lines (which bisected the WNR), the Lynn & Fakenham (later MGNJ) and the West Norfolk Junction (later GER).

 

The southern terminus of the WNR went as far as Castle Aching only because one of the line's promoters, who resided at Aching Hall, insisted upon it.

 

This gentleman later became involved in the Isle of Eldernell scheme, hoping eventually that the two lines would  form part of a Grand  Eastern Trunk Route, eventually linking the ECML to Norwich, but crossing the Isle and the Eldernell Mere was always going to be a problem, and the Eldernell scheme did not come to pass until 1867, the crucial Mereport Extension was not made until the 1880s.  With the soon-to-be GER lines mentioned built from the mid-'60s and the L&F in the early 1880s, by the time such a thing became possible, there was no longer the financial justification for a through route that would have ended the isolation of the Isle of Eldernell by somehow draining or crossing the Mere in the west and bridging the River Wen at Mereport in the east.   

 

In the event, the Grand Eastern Trunk Railway only ever ran for a few short miles from Meadhampstead (Abbey) Station to Gildenburgh on the banks of the Mere, from whence the connection to the Isle of Eldernell continued to be made via steamer. Though the WNR had extended west as far as Bishop's Lynn in anticipation of the route being established across the Mere to Meadhampstead on the ECML, the WNR never bridged the Wen to run into Mereport and the IOE&MR remained physically unconnected from the national system until closure, sometime after WW2.

 

All this by way of background to explain that the Isle of Eldernell Steam Traction Company favoured the products of Sharp Stewart at its inception.  In 1867 it took delivery of 2 2-4-0 passenger tanks from that company. It had also ordered two Sharp Stewart 0-6-0Ts for goods traffic.  When the opportunity arose to acquire the Contractor's Manning Wardle Old I Class, the IOESTC cancelled its order for the second Sharp Stewart 0-6-0.   In due course, as the traffic grew heavier, the Old I Class was pensioned off to work the IOESTC's agricultural branch to Burnt House Basin, on the New Wen River and a replacement purchased.

 

In the meantime, Sharp Stewart was left with a engine on its hands, and the WNR stepped in and offered to take the 0-6-0T, no doubt for a discount, and everyone was left, more or less, happy.  .   

.

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I have to say that if you published a book on the history of the line you could fool a lot of people into believing it was real. The only extra things you need are a hopelessly optimistic but completely clueless board of directors and an unscrupulous contractor.

I do like that 2-2-2 but I foresee problems in it pulling anything much in 4mm (and probably in 12 inches too). You would probably have to have sprung drivers or actually drive the carrying wheels as a bogie instead of the driving wheels.

Plasfynnon did indeed have two sisters. I gave that reference because the others didn't come up on Google in photos. On the Cambrian they were known, for some obscure reason, as the "tank mineral" class. There are various photos in print of all of them and drawings exist in the HMRS and WRRC collections (though I have not seen them). And I don't know of any cousins on other lines, I am afraid.

But I think stick with what you already have. It shows great promise and is a nice looking machine. I wasn't really recommending the American Crampton, especially if you intend emulating York and Conway and having the railway passing through the town walls.

Jonathan

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I've been reading through this thread for the last couple of days - it's very inspiring. On the loco list, how about this? It's a Danish model, but I swear it looks like something on the GNR. https://www.shapeways.com/product/E2Q78WRJX/sjs-odin-klassen-part-1-2-1-87

 

Great locomotive.  Great name.  Fairly good value for a 3D print.  Thanks for the link, JCL, and thanks for your interest. 

 

One day it would be fun to have something like this knocking around, though, I suppose, modelling the superannuated first generation of WNR stock cannot be allowed priority!

 

I do love your GNR modelling, and it has crossed my mind that a short, GNR 2-4-0, 0-4-2 or 2-2-2 tender engine still extant c.1905 might well work through to castle Aching on specials via the M&GN!

Edited by Edwardian
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Trying to translate from a language that I don't read:

 

Built by Sharp 1846, scrapped 1876, replica currently under construction in Denmark, where this was the first locomotive.

 

(So far as I can work out!)

 

Edit: Yes, confirmed, and with excellent photos of the replica under construction http://www.jernbanen.dk/forum/index.php?id=95995

 

And, a photo of it in traffic in 1866 here http://www.jernbanen.dk/forum/index.php?id=95995

 

Kevin

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This is an interesting read about the archeology of early locomotives (it refers briefly to the Danish Odin replica) by John P. Glithero

http://www.mae.uk.com/Experiences%20With%20Early%20Locomotives.pdf

 

dh

That's one of the most captivating things I've read in a long time. I find it a lot more interesting to read about first hand experience than conjecture from sources (even though they may be very necessary).

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Not really time to do anything much this weekend, save ponder coaching stock, specifically the 'branch set'.

 

As I have said, I think that Castle Aching must be the southern terminus of a line that stretches north to the coast.  It is also the terminus of a branch line.  This means that I can have the full WNR 'mainline' service running into Castle Aching, along with visiting specials from the GER and MGN (in the fullness of time, you understand).   The station can also operate simply as a Norfolk Ashburton, and, initially, it is the branch traffic that I would concentrate upon.

 

At some point the WNR attracted the support and sponsorship of .the GER, which became a major investor.  This support seems to have manifested itself with the Johnson-Adams T7 look-a-like, c.1872, the precedent for this being the very similar locomotive supplied to the Colne Valley & Halstead in Essex.  This was the branch passenger engine, housed at Castle Aching.

 

It needs a branch set, usually to be found occupying the loop under the train-shed.

 

Now, these could be anything.  They could be older stock - the WNR like the CV&HR, goes back to the end of the '50s, and the Essex line had some old Wright 4-wheelers, grounded by 1903 - or any of the typical light railway ex-mainline cast-offs, including the 4-wheelers sold off by the GER from 1900.

 

Or they could be a further example of GER munifence and be designed and supplied new during the 1870s.  I take for my precedent here the Felixstowe Railway & Pier Company.  In 1877, the Gloucester Wagon Company supplied a number of 4-wheelers that bear a distinct similarity to the GER 4-wheel stock designed by Johnson  from 1867 and which continued to be constructed under Adams.  The style is characterised by round-topped windows (just to make life more difficult).

 

So, the thought is to have a 4-coach set of short 4-wheelers in this style: Brake Third, First-Second Composite, Third, Brake Third.

 

I note that the Felixstowe coaches lack the panel recesses in some places, which means a two-tone livery might be unsuccessful.  I had hoped for a green and pale cream livery to contrast with visiting stock - the GER and GNR coaches will be varnished teak and Midland coaches all over lined crimson -  although perhaps the 'mainline' coaches could feature the full WNR livery and these branch coaches be in unlined green?

 

For those interested, see John Watling's article, http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock/carriages/types-1-4, and R W Kidner's Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways

 

 

post-25673-0-24887200-1463988305_thumb.jpg

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It's taken me a ludicrously long time to find this thread, considering I live a couple of villages over from Hillington, roughly mid-way between Castles Rising and Acre. D'oh!

 

I've just spent a happy few hours reading from the beginning. What utterly delightful work.

 

A few random and probably unhelpful comments:

 

- the station made in the form of mating locusts (in post 536) has a local resonance: the Gresham family, of the eponymous bank and the posh school in Holt, used this insect as their symbol - most famously at their banking premises in the City, at Lombard Street. Though I suspect that that station design would not necessarily fit well with your overall concept.

 

- the poster in no.581 referred to the school at Hillington being used as the ticket office for the station: in fact, it was the other way round - the school took over the then-disused station when the M&GN line was closed, though the former station buildings were later sold off and they now form a private house.

 

- post no.609 refers to the mythical Norfolk fish oil and guano company; nearby Lynn was a major whaling port in the 19th century, and Rising was, of course, originally a port until the sea retreated (the sea in these here parts is always either receding or advancing - it's often difficult to know where you are with it).

 

- the poster in no.517 tells us that in a photo you can see the dyke in the distance. Well, yes, except that in these parts "dykes" are what we call bigger ditches, not, as most would have it, the name of an embankment (for many years I just couldn't understand how a little boy could put his thumb in a hole in a dyke, in order to hold back the water. The story just made no sense whatsoever. Everyone knew that ditches flow into dykes which flow into drains). Which just reminds me of one of my favourite ever book titles, which is particularly appreciated by a literary lady novelist of my acquaintance, for some reason.

 

- a Methodist chapel would be much easier to include than a full-blown wool church. Many of the chapels round here proudly declare that they are "Primitive Methodist", which always makes me smile.

 

- an alternative is to look at Rising church - which is rather more modest in scale (and older) than Acre. I was really pleased to see the Rising alms houses peaking in: they are utterly charming and very distinctive. You could even include some inhabitants wearing their Jacobean-style cloaks and witch hats.

 

- though that brings me onto a tricky issue: as others have pointed out, the geology changes very rapidly round here, and the villages made intensive use of the closest stone for their buildings. You can sometimes get mixes, but it is tricky to get a plausible balance for those who know the area - it's so distinctive that you can guess the neighbourhood from the proportions of the buildings using different materials. I'm pretty sure you know this. A great resource which I don't think has been mentioned so far in this thread is Matthew Rice's Building Norfolk - click here for an Amazon link which lets you look inside. Lots of lovely detail about typical brick laying patterns and flint finishes and carrstone and... etc.

 

Pah. Your emerging layout and your thread have both hugely entertained me. Thanks very much.

 

Paul

Edited by Fenman
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Looks like something Iain Rice would be proud of!

 

Except, he made a proper model!  But thanks for your kind expression of approbation.

 

 

It's taken me a ludicrously long time to find this thread, considering I live a couple of villages over from Hillington, roughly mid-way between Castles Rising and Acre. D'oh!

 

I've just spent a happy few hours reading from the beginning. What utterly delightful work.

 

A few random and probably unhelpful comments:

 

- the station made in the form of mating locusts (in post 536) has a local resonance: the Gresham family, of the eponymous bank and the posh school in Holt, used this insect as their symbol - most famously at their banking premises in the City, at Lombard Street. Though I suspect that that station design would not necessarily fit well with your overall concept.

 

- the poster in no.581 referred to the school at Hillington being used as the ticket office for the station: in fact, it was the other way round - the school took over the then-disused station when the M&GN line was closed, though the former station buildings were later sold off and they now form a private house.

 

- post no.609 refers to the mythical Norfolk fish oil and guano company; nearby Lynn was a major whaling port in the 19th century, and Rising was, of course, originally a port until the sea retreated (the sea in these here parts is always either receding or advancing - it's often difficult to know where you are with it).

 

- the poster in no.517 tells us that in a photo you can see the dyke in the distance. Well, yes, except that in these parts "dykes" are what we call bigger ditches, not, as most would have it, the name of an embankment (for many years I just couldn't understand how a little boy could put his thumb in a hole in a dyke, in order to hold back the water. The story just made no sense whatsoever. Everyone knew that ditches flow into dykes which flow into drains). Which just reminds me of one of my favourite ever book titles, which is particularly appreciated by a literary lady novelist of my acquaintance, for some reason.

 

- a Methodist chapel would be much easier to include than a full-blown wool church. Many of the chapels round here proudly declare that they are "Primitive Methodist", which always makes me smile.

 

- an alternative is to look at Rising church - which is rather more modest in scale (and older) than Acre. I was really pleased to see the Rising alms houses peaking in: they are utterly charming and very distinctive. You could even include some inhabitants wearing their Jacobean-style cloaks and witch hats.

 

- though that brings me onto a tricky issue: as others have pointed out, the geology changes very rapidly round here, and the villages made intensive use of the closest stone for their buildings. You can sometimes get mixes, but it is tricky to get a plausible balance for those who know the area - it's so distinctive that you can guess the neighbourhood from the proportions of the buildings using different materials. I'm pretty sure you know this. A great resource which I don't think has been mentioned so far in this thread is Matthew Rice's Building Norfolk - click here for an Amazon link which lets you look inside. Lots of lovely detail about typical brick laying patterns and flint finishes and carrstone and... etc.

 

Pah. Your emerging layout and your thread have both hugely entertained me. Thanks very much.

 

Paul

 

Paul, thank you for these comments, which I will respond to in greater detail in due course.  Your comments, suggestions and information is much appreciated.

Edited by Edwardian
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- the station made in the form of mating locusts (in post 536) has a local resonance: the Gresham family, of the eponymous bank and the posh school in Holt, used this insect as their symbol - most famously at their banking premises in the City, at Lombard Street. Though I suspect that that station design would not necessarily fit well with your overall concept.

 

 

 

Possibly the distance from Holt obviates the need for locusts on the layout.  Having started off being fairly vague about where exactly we find Castle Aching and on the subject of the railway's history, I now find myself rapidly inventing in order to keep pace with the reality driven by this topic.

 

I will have to create an "expandable Norfolk", with a whole additional slice running from a point between Rising and Acre in the south up to my Erstaz Burnhams in the north.

 

I just argued that the WNR was intended to form part of a more ambitious east-west trunk route, so the north-south axis and the orientation of Castle Aching's station need thinking round!

 

- the poster in no.581 referred to the school at Hillington being used as the ticket office for the station: in fact, it was the other way round - the school took over the then-disused station when the M&GN line was closed, though the former station buildings were later sold off and they now form a private house.

 

 

 

That is how I understood it.  Hillington is interesting.  it gives me Victorian architecture with carstone slips, close to my bit of expanded Norfolk, but I can also draw on Acre to the south east.

 

 

 

- post no.609 refers to the mythical Norfolk fish oil and guano company; nearby Lynn was a major whaling port in the 19th century, and Rising was, of course, originally a port until the sea retreated (the sea in these here parts is always either receding or advancing - it's often difficult to know where you are with it).

 

 

That is helpful.  Clearly the wagon should be labelled "Bishop's Lynn". 

 

 

 

- the poster in no.517 tells us that in a photo you can see the dyke in the distance. Well, yes, except that in these parts "dykes" are what we call bigger ditches, not, as most would have it, the name of an embankment (for many years I just couldn't understand how a little boy could put his thumb in a hole in a dyke, in order to hold back the water. The story just made no sense whatsoever. Everyone knew that ditches flow into dykes which flow into drains). Which just reminds me of one of my favourite ever book titles, which is particularly appreciated by a literary lady novelist of my acquaintance, for some reason.

 

 

Agreed.  Don't forget Leams. The Cambridgeshire-based Isle of Eldernell sister layout will be flat and soggy. 

 

That is a superb title for a book.

 

 

 

- a Methodist chapel would be much easier to include than a full-blown wool church. Many of the chapels round here proudly declare that they are "Primitive Methodist", which always makes me smile.

 

- an alternative is to look at Rising church - which is rather more modest in scale (and older) than Acre. I was really pleased to see the Rising alms houses peaking in: they are utterly charming and very distinctive. You could even include some inhabitants wearing their Jacobean-style cloaks and witch hats.

 

 

 

The spiritual welfare of Castle Aching is close to my heart.  There should be Primitive Methodists and I will look at Rising church; there is a lot of Acre and not much Rising in the village so far.

 

 

 

- though that brings me onto a tricky issue: as others have pointed out, the geology changes very rapidly round here, and the villages made intensive use of the closest stone for their buildings. You can sometimes get mixes, but it is tricky to get a plausible balance for those who know the area - it's so distinctive that you can guess the neighbourhood from the proportions of the buildings using different materials. I'm pretty sure you know this. A great resource which I don't think has been mentioned so far in this thread is Matthew Rice's Building Norfolk - click here for an Amazon link which lets you look inside. Lots of lovely detail about typical brick laying patterns and flint finishes and carrstone and... etc.

 

 

 

All the necessary materials border the mythical slice of expanded Norfolk, so it'll all be fine!  I will look out for that book, though.

 

Very helpful comments, many thanks. 

 

James

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That church, St Lawrence, Castle Rising, says "model me!"  Thanks, Fenman.  Architecturally closer to the castle, too.

 

And, I discover that the almshouses go by the utterly splendid name of The Hospital of the Holy and Undivided Trinity.  As a Scholar of the college of the Holy Trinity of Norwich, I can relate to that.

 

The costumes are as irresistible as the buildings

post-25673-0-57225500-1464028715_thumb.jpg

post-25673-0-57661600-1464028737_thumb.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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"- the station made in the form of mating locusts (in post 536) has a local resonance: the Gresham family, of the eponymous bank and the posh school in Holt, used this insect as their symbol - most famously at their banking premises in the City, at Lombard Street. Though I suspect that that station design would not necessarily fit well with your overall concept."

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's meant to be a grasshopper rather than a locust, but depending on one's political outlook vis-à-vis bankers/public schools/etc a locust might be more appropriate symbolically...  :-)

 

 

 

Richard

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That church, St Lawrence, Castle Rising, says "model me!"  Thanks, Fenman.  Architecturally closer to the castle, too.

 

An, I discover that the almshouses go by the utterly splendid name of The Hospital of the Holy and Undivided Trinity.  As a Scholar of the college of the Holy Trinity of Norwich, I can relate to that.

 

The costumes are as irresistible as the buildings

 

Reminds me of a friend of mine walked up Snowdon wearing one of those hats and a red velvety tablecloth as a cloak.

Don

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I learn something new every day, simply by visiting Castle Aching!

 

The lady on the left presumably holds some superior rank in this Geriatric Hogwarts, because she is allowed to carry her cat, curled-up asleep, on her head, while the others have to wear pointy hats.

 

I saw a good foundation stone inscription last week, on what is now the RCVS, but used to be a children's home, in Westminster. "..... for the welfare of orphan, needy, and erring boys .......". Picturesque phraseology, but there is a lot of understanding wrapped into those few words.

 

Kevin

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That coach would cut very easily on the portrait, and you would be easily able to get the bolections around the windows as well. Is there any drawings for these style vehicles anywhere? I'll have to have a look in the archive, but I'm not sure I have got any. If you could draw them out I can cut them (silhouette studio can be downloaded for free and you don't need a cutter to draw with it) for you. Round topped windows become so easy!

 

Andy g

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Andy G - that is an extraordinarily kind offer, and a cutter is precisely the right technology for such a job.   

 

I can glean the basic dimensions from a couple of GER coach outline drawings (follow the link I posted to the GERS article).  I don't know the specific dimensions of the Felixstowe coaches and I have only the picture I posted, but the WNR coaches do not need to be exact replicas of the coaches, just "in the style of"

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Well if you have the basics, I'm sure you can manipulate the bits out of the photo to get the overall feel right.

 

Its an interesting coach. No top beading (with the vents recessed) and it sort of appears to my eyes that the waist is half round beading applied to the main body surface. Very original, and not a normal way of doing things! Its almost L&Yish......

 

Andy G

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Its an interesting coach. No top beading (with the vents recessed) and it sort of appears to my eyes that the waist is half round beading applied to the main body surface. Very original, and not a normal way of doing things! Its almost L&Yish......

The lower paneling would seem to be on the same layer as the beading around the upper panel on the un-glazed guards door and the areas around and between the windows with, as Andy says, the waist and lower beading applied as ½ -round.  This style of 3-layer paneling was not uncommon, Drummond and Lambie era CR coaches used it, but with full paneling on the lower body side, not ½-round beading..

 

Jim

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