Castle Aching

[ChrisN]

Thanks, Chris. 

 

We are contending with some pretty stressful legal and financial problems.  They are not intractable and they will not last forever, though sometimes it seems that they are and they will!  It takes just about all the income we can generate just to hold the line and some months there is, I am afraid, a very real danger of being overwhelmed completely.  I hate living like this.  Sometimes it means that the thing that seems to be keeping me reasonably sane has to be parked.  

 

Nevertheless, we have much to be thankful for and I do think that it is entirely reasonable to expect the situation to resolve itself eventually.

 

So, while I cannot promise any progress over the next few days, I am not about to give up!  Last winter we were reduced to living in a borrowed caravan for the best part of 3 months.  Things do get better and will continue to do so.

 

On the brighter side of life, I have started to uncover my stash of accessories, some of which I rescued from storage this week.  The advantage of 17 years in the armchair is all those bits and bobs acquired over the years (and some of these might actually date from the days of my childhood layout!) do add up.

 

Of this lot, on Castle Aching I intend to use the farm waggon, and the portable engine, which I have an idea might sit nicely on a GE Mac K. 

 

The rest are models that I would like to have for their own sake, but I think I shall have no difficulty in fitting them into future projects. I will work on them at a steady pace in between everything else!

 

I have plans for a pair of ploughing engines, because I hope to include part of an agricultural contractor's yard, because there was such a business in Castle Rising.  As May is not the ploughing season, this would seem a good excuse to include the engines.  The Z7 class is quite big and the kits will make impressive models.  I have my doubts about whether they would fit the circa 1905 period as I suspect that they might be a design from the Great War-Early '20s period.

 

Should that prove to be the case, I have two smaller, white-metal ones, however, I suspect these might be ex-Rowlands Miniature Fowler BB engines, and I think these were only built from 1913! (oh, and presently I have no idea where they are!)

 

The cardboard Foden steam lorry is 1911, the Atkinson colonial 1924 and the AEC 'bus 1917.  I suspect the Aveling and Porter steam roller is 1920s!

 

Traction engines!  I do like traction engines, probably because I was introduced to them at an early age but also because my granddad used to use ploughing engines, and others as well I should think.  It is a shame that I cannot squeeze one in on my layout.

 

I went to the local rural museum and was surprised at how different farm wagons even for the same purpose were around the country.  As far as I can remember the Langley one was typical for East Anglia.  Bingo!

 

There is on Shapeways a plough to go with it.  On JCL's thread he shows it but also has on the previous page I think how he did the ploughed field.

[Edwardian]

I shall enjoy looking at Jim Reed's work.  Thank you.

 

Ploughing engines.  I don't know how typical or appropriate they are for Norfolk.  In the potato fields of Lincolnshire perhaps.  They were the really industrialised end of farming; a big investment in machinery and a team of 6.  This is why I reckon they would often be owned contractors rather than farmers.

 

I will look out for the Rolt books, thanks Andy G, but after my track purchase, the moratorium is once again firmly in place, I'm afraid.  In the meantime, I have one book on steam road vehicles.  The author, writing in 1974, so, presumably, discussing the 1890s/turn of the century, says:

 

Eighty years ago, £2,500 outlay for a set of double engine ploughing tackle and £600 for a traction, were considerable sums even for large landowners. 

 

The alternative 'set piece' would be the thrashing/threshing set.  Again, this would be in the contractor's yard as we would not be in the threshing season.

 

If 2 hay cuts were done in those days, perhaps a green cut would be done in May? That might be the sort of agricultural activity that could be portrayed.  

 

Anyhow, at pages 19 and 20 of Mr Beaumont's volume we have the sort of Fowlers that seem to me more appropriate for 1905; both 1870s products and both at work in the late or immediately post Edwardian period. They have delightful and distinctive safety valve casings, upon one of which, the caption notes, there is a kettle!  Note the use of Andrew Stadden enginemen on the Sleaford example in particular!

 

Without kits, these might be a fun scratch-build challenge.  Scale drawings anyone?!?

[teaky]

If the ploughing engines were protected with tarpaulins whilst stored in the contractor's yard would you be able to identify the kits you already have as later models?

[mullie]

Ploughing engines were used in Essex up to the thirties I believe as my parents could remember them in their childhoods. Norfolk not so sure of but it seems likely as early tractors would have struggled with the terrain.

[The Stationmaster]

If I recall rightly the first cut for hay was done as soon as the grass was long enough - which would normally be sometime in May in many parts of England.  The second cut would then follow once it was again long enough to cut.  The cut would require several days of good weather and I understand it would usually be done before the seeds have set (although I don't think that would be essential?).

 

Once the grass has been cut it has to be turned regularly to ensure that it dries out evenly and that of course requires dry warm wether.  In Edwardian times  - and much later on many small farms - turning would be done by hand using hayforks but machinery was used as well although i don't know when it first appeared on the task - probably only once i/c powered tractors were widely available.  Once the hay had thoroughly dried out it would be picked up by forking it onto a wagon and then be taken back to the yard for storage - sometimes undercover and no doubt in some areas in a thatched rick, in later years/nowadays it would picked up by a baler and the bales would be stacked and sheeted.

 

So a warm late spring/early summer day and the men would be out with scythes cutting and then some days would be spent out with hayforks turning before picking it up - but make sure it goes onto a Norfolk wagon and not some out of area thing such as  Berkshire wagon.

[mullie]

Haymaking has always been a battle against the weather as the grass needs to be cut, turned and collected without rain if the best quality (and price is to be achieved).

 

Whole families would be expected to take part in the gathering of crops and I believe the school six week holiday is where it is because of the historical needs of agriculture. For many years my family always had their weeks holiday around the time of Wimbledon because my father had to be back to help with the harvest. As we grew up we would all be involved as well, good way to find casual work. It was long hours and hard work but we all loved it.

[Shadow]

Charles Burrells' factory was based in Thetford, so not far away.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Burrell_%26_Sons

Edited June 5, 2016 by Shadow

[Nearholmer]

Bit of contemporary background reading, which might come in handy http://www.1902encyclopedia.com/A/AGR/agriculture-019.html

 

And, a good diagram of Mr Smith's "roundabout", which I am keen to promote, because his farm was about a mile from where I live.

 

K

Edited June 5, 2016 by Nearholmer

[mullie]

Ploughs can also be a bit of a headache, some had wheels, some didn't. My father always referred to ploughs with wheels as 'boys' ploughs as real ploughman didn't apparently use them though I'm sure this will again be a regional thing. My family are from around the Chelmsford and Stanford Le Hope parts of Essex when those areas were very different.

 

Horse breeds, some rudimentary research shows you should be alright with Shires in Norfolk.

[Donw]

Farming has rather come full circle. In victorian times the traction/ploughing engines came along these were expensive items too expensive to be justified on a modest farm. Today we have the super monster harvesters again too expensive to be justified by a modest farm so usually owned and operated by contractors. Which means a farmer can be dependant on others as to when the tasks get done. Other than these expensive things in the 1900s it was horse or manpower for most things. A lot of tasks such as haymaking,muck spreading, Harvesting were rather social often with extra help drawn in. A lot of agricultural workers missed the social aspects as machinery came in as their work became more solitary. So for modelling a 1900s farming scene offers the chance to have a group of workers Horse drawn carts etc. Much more interesting than one man in a tractor.

Don 

[Nearholmer]

And, for waggons, try http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(john%20thompson).htm

 

I used to work with the late John Thompson, and whenever we went to inspect electrical equipment at factories, he would always wangle into the trip a side-visit to a crumbling old farm wagon in an obscure field miles from anywhere. I used to get to hold the end of the tape measure, while standing knee-deep in nettles, in a steady drizzle, while wearing my good shoes and suit!

 

He was a brilliant electrical engineer, and one of the most decent people I've ever met; his first maxim when considering any task was "what will it add to the sum of human happiness?". Tedious bureaucracy, unnecessary DIY, etc were deemed not to add to human happiness, so were simply ignored.

 

K

[Edwardian]

Greetings from Sunny Shildon. Here with both children and all three dogs. Hope you are all enjoying your weekend and I look forward to catching up on today's posts properly.

 

Today is a peerless day. No one can take that away!

[runs as required]

Greetings from Sunny Shildon. Here with both children and all three dogs. Hope you are all enjoying your weekend and I look forward to catching up on today's posts properly.

 

Today is a peerless day. No one can take that away!

 

God help the Shildon exhibitors faced with those friendly over-enthusiastic dogs (and their lashing tails) running amok !

 

dh

Edited June 5, 2016 by runs as required

[otherplanet]

Thanks, Chris. 

 

We are contending with some pretty stressful legal and financial problems.  They are not intractable and they will not last forever, though sometimes it seems that they are and they will!  It takes just about all the income we can generate just to hold the line and some months there is, I am afraid, a very real danger of being overwhelmed completely.  I hate living like this.  Sometimes it means that the thing that seems to be keeping me reasonably sane has to be parked.  

 

Nevertheless, we have much to be thankful for and I do think that it is entirely reasonable to expect the situation to resolve itself eventually.

 

So, while I cannot promise any progress over the next few days, I am not about to give up!  Last winter we were reduced to living in a borrowed caravan for the best part of 3 months.  Things do get better and will continue to do so.

 

On the brighter side of life, I have started to uncover my stash of accessories, some of which I rescued from storage this week.  The advantage of 17 years in the armchair is all those bits and bobs acquired over the years (and some of these might actually date from the days of my childhood layout!) do add up.

 

Of this lot, on Castle Aching I intend to use the farm waggon, and the portable engine, which I have an idea might sit nicely on a GE Mac K. 

 

The rest are models that I would like to have for their own sake, but I think I shall have no difficulty in fitting them into future projects. I will work on them at a steady pace in between everything else!

 

I have plans for a pair of ploughing engines, because I hope to include part of an agricultural contractor's yard, because there was such a business in Castle Rising.  As May is not the ploughing season, this would seem a good excuse to include the engines.  The Z7 class is quite big and the kits will make impressive models.  I have my doubts about whether they would fit the circa 1905 period as I suspect that they might be a design from the Great War-Early '20s period.

 

Should that prove to be the case, I have two smaller, white-metal ones, however, I suspect these might be ex-Rowlands Miniature Fowler BB engines, and I think these were only built from 1913! (oh, and presently I have no idea where they are!)

 

The cardboard Foden steam lorry is 1911, the Atkinson colonial 1924 and the AEC 'bus 1917.  I suspect the Aveling and Porter steam roller is 1920s!

 

 

Hello. I have been enjoying the varied directions of conversation, and excellent modelling of this thread for some time, before finally feeling I have something to contribute.

Your collection of vehicles might have more to offer than the packaging suggests. For example, the Atkinson may be prototyped from 1924, but Atkinson launched the model in 1916. The differences are small; wooden planked sides instead of steel and no wheel arches are the most significant. I realise this is still probably not early enough for your target period. But the point is that the kit designer picked a specific prototype, (in this case a specific, restored wagon) and not necessarily the earliest incarnation of the design. The popularity for post grouping railways possibly had an influence on the choice of labelling too. The Keil Kraft B Type Bus (which isn't in your collection) is similarly a late dated version of an design that changed little from 1910. I can't say about the other kits but further research may prove fruitful.

I have found that the Archive pages of 'Commercial Motor' magazine to be a valuable resource on road vehicles in this period. http://archive.commercialmotor.com/ (it doesn't browse well on a tablet, best to use a PC). They have the entire back catalogue to 1906 online with an excellent search engine.

With regards to ploughing engines, the thread is correct, contractors were very much the norm, with teams travelling between farms in a big convoy. (something I hope to model at some point) There is a good summary here. http://www.steamploughclub.org.uk/simple%20guide.html so don't forget the extra paraphernalia, ploughs, cultivators, water tank, living van.

As the link shows, in addition to the conventional agricultural work, out of season they also found business dredging, which might be appropriate for your chosen location. All this could still be represented within the contractors yard.

Hope that helps

[NeilHB]

Motive power, so far:

Edwardian, forgive my intrusion, but do you happen to know which magazine issue the Iain Rice drawing of the GER T7 came from please? I've been looking for it for ages but no luck sadly. They are rather fine looking locos and I think a 7mm scale one would look right at home on Elsbridge Wharf...

 

Will look forward to your 4mm progress - all looking very good so far!

[Andy Hayter]

There is a drawing in Model Railways December 1982 edition.

[NeilHB]

Thanks Andy, much appreciated.

[Edwardian]

Edwardian, forgive my intrusion, but do you happen to know which magazine issue the Iain Rice drawing of the GER T7 came from please? I've been looking for it for ages but no luck sadly. They are rather fine looking locos and I think a 7mm scale one would look right at home on Elsbridge Wharf...

 

Will look forward to your 4mm progress - all looking very good so far!

 

Neil, I have sent you an email with everything I have on this class.  Thanks for your kind comments, by the way, and please stick around. 

 

 

Hello. I have been enjoying the varied directions of conversation, and excellent modelling of this thread for some time, before finally feeling I have something to contribute.

Your collection of vehicles might have more to offer than the packaging suggests. For example, the Atkinson may be prototyped from 1924, but Atkinson launched the model in 1916. The differences are small; wooden planked sides instead of steel and no wheel arches are the most significant. I realise this is still probably not early enough for your target period. But the point is that the kit designer picked a specific prototype, (in this case a specific, restored wagon) and not necessarily the earliest incarnation of the design. The popularity for post grouping railways possibly had an influence on the choice of labelling too. The Keil Kraft B Type Bus (which isn't in your collection) is similarly a late dated version of an design that changed little from 1910. I can't say about the other kits but further research may prove fruitful.

I have found that the Archive pages of 'Commercial Motor' magazine to be a valuable resource on road vehicles in this period. http://archive.commercialmotor.com/ (it doesn't browse well on a tablet, best to use a PC). They have the entire back catalogue to 1906 online with an excellent search engine.

With regards to ploughing engines, the thread is correct, contractors were very much the norm, with teams travelling between farms in a big convoy. (something I hope to model at some point) There is a good summary here. http://www.steamploughclub.org.uk/simple%20guide.html so don't forget the extra paraphernalia, ploughs, cultivators, water tank, living van.

As the link shows, in addition to the conventional agricultural work, out of season they also found business dredging, which might be appropriate for your chosen location. All this could still be represented within the contractors yard.

Hope that helps

 

Otherplanet, welcome and thank you for your kind comments.  This last week or two has been a bit dire and the usual 'hiding from reality with my trains' ploy has not really been an option, so I have neglected CA and its topic.

 

You make a very good point about back-dating.  As with everything, I suspect detailed research would be amply rewarded.  That tip on the B Type may come in particularly useful should I acquire one.  At least one project likely to be commenced in the next couple of years (touch wood) is post 1910.

 

Both a thrashing set and a ploughing set on the move would make magnificent set pieces.  Perhaps my next project should be multi-seasonal so that I can have both!

 

Thank you for the links.  From an initial look, there both look to be veritable mines of information and I am grateful to you for putting them our way.

[NeilHB]

James/Edwardian - email gratefully received - many many thanks!

[ChrisN]

Talking of traction engines, here are pictures from a small steam rally.  A couple of interesting ones there that may be of use.

[Edwardian]

Talking of traction engines, here are pictures from a small steam rally.  A couple of interesting ones there that may be of use.

 

Thanks, Chris.  That Brown & May Portable Engine of circa 1860 is rather wonderful.

[ianLMS]

Weeting Steam Rally is 15-17 July and is just round the corner from where I live on the Norfolk/Suffolk border and would give you the perfect excuse to stop in deepest, darkest Norfolk, do a spot of intel gathering, and then visit the steam rally to soak up the soot n steam. Great collection of steam traction engines, bygone farm machinery and all things vintage and a stones throw from Castle Acre!!!!

 

http://weetingrally.co.uk/

[ChrisN]

You may find this post interesting.  You may have to express an interest although I assume/hope once the kit is made it can be produced at a later date as well.

[Edwardian]

You may find this post interesting.  You may have to express an interest although I assume/hope once the kit is made it can be produced at a later date as well.

 

I do, thanks Chris.  I am one of those modellers always dreaming about the next 100 projects.  A number of things have to happen for the next project to be realised, not least of which is completing CA to a reasonable standard.   

 

I have, in a fairly dilapidated state, the bones of a once fine exhibition layout of some antiquity and former renown. This layout used to be run as Grouping era (with a fair few anachronisms, it must be admitted!) but was geographically ambiguous.  The basic premise was the that layout was a GW line that linked a GW/SR mainline with a GW/LMS mainline.  Probably implausible, but my idea is to stick to this concept, restore the layout but also build the junctions with the mainlines at each end.

 

I would keep the geography ambivalent (the opposite of CA, I suppose), but tie the period to pre-Grouping. Most of the "Edwardian" collection would favour the years immediately before WW1, but eventually I'd like to have enough stock suitable for c.1905-1906 running sessions too, so I can have Indian Red frames!

 

Why am I blithering on about this?  Well, the idea is to create the perfect Rule No.1 layout, so I can run (though not necessarily all at once) the greater part of the pre-Grouping stuff that interests me.

 

One of the prime candidates for a place in this world is the Cambrian Railways.  Others are LNWR, Midland, LSWR, SECR, GCR and, of course, the constant, GWR.  Narrow Gauge feeder lines will resemble the GVT and the L&B.   As I say, these would not all run at the same time.

 

Mad?  A big childish train set? 

 

Yes!

 

And sorry if the idea offends, but it's a reasonable way to run anything I want.  If I model further layouts after that, they are likely to be prototype locations.  I  have a wish-list as long as your arm of those (Merstham SECR/LBSC, Wolferton GER, Marple MR/GC, Barnard Castle NER, Chirk GW/GVT, Barnstaple  LSWR/L&B, Catterick Bridge NER/CCR, Wisbech GER/W&UT, Craven Arms GW/LNWR/BCR .....).  This is not to mention freelance railways, some of which would be a lot bigger than the WNR!  Perhaps I'll mange some of these projects, but in the meantime, having a layout upon which I can run more or less anything has to be the answer.

 

So, yes, access to Cambrian Railways subjects would certainly tempt me.

 

Let us see if I can make a reasonable fist of CA first, however!

Edited June 13, 2016 by Edwardian

[JCL]

One of the prime candidates for a place in this world is the Cambrian Railways.  Others are LNWR, Midland, LSWR, SECR, GCR and, of course, the constant, GWR.  Narrow Gauge feeder lines will resemble the GVT and the L&B.   As I say, these would not all run at the same time. Merstham SECR/LBSC, Wolferton GER, Marple MR/GC, Barnard Castle NER, Chirk GW/GVT, Barnstaple  LSWR/L&B, Catterick Bridge NER/CCR, Wisbech GER/W&UT, Craven Arms GW/LNWR/BCR .....).  This is not to mention freelance railways.

 

I say sir, you appear to be missing one!

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jason Liversidge

GNR Society