Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

I hate to pour cold water on things but if this is your first layout I would keep it simple and possibly regard it as expendable. My advice would be to get something built and running ASAP so as to maintain enthusiasm.

 

My main layout Pott Row is now on version 4, the first two were built with Peco track and version 3 with SMP. Version 4 is a scenic rehash of 3 which looks very different and soon I will post photos on my thread, just not had the time recently. The four versions cover a period of around eighteen years. I started around the time our first daughter was born and she is hopefully off to university this year! I built a layout using set track in our loft before that on terrible base boards, it was soon dismantled but I learnt loads about how not to do things.

 

I have also built a number of micro layouts during this time to test out new ideas, Rickett Street is the most recent and I hope to start work on further developing that layout soon. Upbech St Mary was a box file layout featured in the Modeller around 2011 and Leyton Street dates from around 2003 with boards built of balsa.

 

This might seem like a lot of layouts but I've learnt loads from each one and recycled as much as possible. The signal box on Pott Row was built for my very first layout over twenty years ago and this layout has taken around eight years to get to its current unfinished state.

 

Sorry teaching habits coming through here!

 

Oh, I wouldn't worry.  The only thing I'm committed to is the area represented by Simon's plan.  The choice is simply whether to add the fiddle yard at that point, or, carry on round the room.  The sensible thing might be to do one, and then the other!

 

The advantage of ultimately going all the way around is that the fiddle yard, and any second terminus, could end up within arm's length of the Castle Aching controls.

[Donw]

One of those US chappies with a huge basement built himself a large set of storage sidings which could be moved so as he built the line round the basement the storage sidings always formed the end of the line. I am thinking you could do something similar with cassettes. Build CA and terminate the line with cassettes. This will mean making a docking for the cassettes to connect to. When that is done  you build some new boards to contain Flitching or wherever. The docking piece gets moved to the new end and if it is a junction you either assume the actual junction is offstage or build an additional docking.

Don

[BlueLightning]

There is always the even more complicated option of having a helix at the end with a fiddle yard underneath the main boards. This is my plan for my big layout when I finally get to build it in 20 - 30 years.

 

And while a helix may sound hard Everard Junction on YouTube ("richard w" on here) did a very good tutorial (here) that is worth checking out, even just for curiosity's sake.

 

Gary

Edited July 16, 2016 by BlueLightning

[Donw]

There is always the even more complicated option of having a helix at the end with a fiddle yard underneath the main boards. This is my plan for my big layout when I finally get to build it in 20 - 30 years.

 

And while a helix may sound hard Everard Junction on YouTube ("richard w" on here) did a very good tutorial (here) that is worth checking out, even just for curiosity's sake.

 

Gary

 

While Helixes can be an elegant solution they can also be space eaters and introduce steep long gradients. If you aim for 3 inch separation the diameter of the helix needs to be about 8ft for a 1:100 gradient or 5ft for a 1:60 gradient which has a curve of about 30 ins. The quaint locos Edwardian likes may not be as good at haulage as some of the RTR models with specially shaped chassis blocks (these often destroy any chance of daylight under boilers. I know the trains will be short  but that probably means that 5ft x1ft would give an ample fiddle yard. I am not knocking Helixes if you were planning to use RTR diesels which can take tight curves and have good haulage they can make room for long trains. It doesn't seem appropriate for Castle Aching with short trains and some eclectic loco stock. I would advise anyone thinking of a helix to do some testing of locos and stock round curved gradients.

In many ways a simple fy like the one of John Flann's Hintock would suit this layout and could easily have a small teminus out front  see here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60526-hintock-gwr-oo/page-41

Incidently I believe Edwardian is an admirer of Hintock

Don

[Edwardian]

Don, Gary, yes, I do not think I would have room for a helix, and have concluded that there is no other way to run a track down to a different level.  Dave Shadow's rather nice idea was to use a cassette to bridge the levels.

 

I had thought of a conventional F Y behind a terminus.  Thank you for the link to Hintock, Don, I don't recall seeing a picture of its F Y before, but it is a great example of something that might suit CA.

 

The cassette idea of Don's, to bolt them to the end of a phase 1 scenic section, and just keep moving it as, if and when, the layout expends, seems sound.

 

Ultimately, I could have a single cassette road behind the Achingham terminus.  That would give me the width I need for the second terminus.

 

I can have cassette and further storage roads mounted below, picking up on Dave's idea again.

 

Just one thought; the trains will not be turned, rather I need a neat way of detaching, turning, and replacing a loco at the opposite end of the train.

 

How is this managed by cassette users?

 

Could I plug it in 'downstairs' and run the loco off on to a TT?

[BG John]

Just one thought; the trains will not be turned, rather I need a neat way of detaching, turning, and replacing a loco at the opposite end of the train.

 

How is this managed by cassette users?

 

Could I plug it in 'downstairs' and run the loco off on to a TT?

Have short cassettes for locos, and long ones for trains. Unplug the loco cassette from the arrival end and slide it down to the departure end, turning it if you want. Push the train cassette back, and insert loco cassette in gap.

 

If you can close off the ends of the cassette safely, you can carry it downstairs, upstairs, or down the bottom of the garden if you want, and plug it into a turntable, or anything else with compatible connectors!

Edited July 16, 2016 by BG John

[Nearholmer]

Another option to ponder is not to have a FY at all, in the conventional sense, but to model one of the WNR's junctions with the GER, and use exchange-sidings, in full view, to serve the function of a FY.

 

Depending upon the layout of the "junction", it might not even be necessary to model the GER station. Plenty of independent SG lines had their own passenger station, completely separate from that of their bigger neighbour.

 

Very rough indeed concept for such a station below, the idea being that it would fit the lower RH corner of the room. The WNR station somehow acquired a short overall roof as I was scribbling, and the place seems to have a slightly Irish feel to it for some reason, but what it really is is a FY with scenery.

 

No points on the passenger line, BTW, and both the home and starter signals on one post.

 

K

Edited July 16, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Have short cassettes for locos, and long ones for trains. Unplug the loco cassette from the arrival end and slide it down to the departure end, turning it if you want. Push the train cassette back, and insert loco cassette in gap.

 

If you can close off the ends of the cassette safely, you can carry it downstairs, upstairs, or down the bottom of the garden if you want, and plug it into a turntable, or anything else with compatible connectors!

 

Brilliant, thanks!

[mullie]

Pott Row uses cassettes at the left hand end and a more conventional traverser with run round cassette at the right hand end. The left hand end which uses aluminium angle cassettes  has to be dismantled after every operating session so the cassettes are stored in a tray made of wood. The tray lives under the right hand fiddle yard when not in use and on the workmate when the layout is being operated. I'll try and take photographs soon. Both types of fiddle yard have their merits and if I can make it work anyone can.

 

John Flann's fiddle yard is seen in some photos on his wonderful thread.

Brilliant, thanks!

I use scouring pads (soft side towards stock) as ends for my cassettes.

[Edwardian]

Another option to ponder is not to have a FY at all, in the conventional sense, but to model one of the WNR's junctions with the GER, and use exchange-sidings, in full view, to serve the function of a FY.

 

Depending upon the layout of the "junction", it might not even be necessary to model the GER station. Plenty of independent SG lines had their own passenger station, completely separate from that of their bigger neighbour.

 

Very rough indeed concept for such a station below, the idea being that it would fit the lower RH corner of the room. The WNR station somehow acquired a short overall roof as I was scribbling, and the place seems to have a slightly Irish feel to it for some reason, but what it really is is a FY with scenery.

 

No points on the passenger line, BTW, and both the home and starter signals on one post.

 

K

 

That's a great idea.  Not sure that a junction with the GER comes within the geographical ambit of the room I have available, but I will think more on this, as it's a good solution.

[Edwardian]

Pott Row uses cassettes at the left hand end and a more conventional traverser with run round cassette at the right hand end. The left hand end which uses aluminium angle cassettes  has to be dismantled after every operating session so the cassettes are stored in a tray made of wood. The tray lives under the right hand fiddle yard when not in use and on the workmate when the layout is being operated. I'll try and take photographs soon. Both types of fiddle yard have their merits and if I can make it work anyone can.

 

John Flann's fiddle yard is seen in some photos on his wonderful thread.

I use scouring pads (soft side towards stock) as ends for my cassettes.

 

That sounds like the sort of thing I should consider.  I look forward to the pictures once you have a moment.

[BG John]

That's a great idea.  Not sure that a junction with the GER comes within the geographical ambit of the room I have available, but I will think more on this, as it's a good solution.

Have a look at Chichester on the Selsey Tramway. It was a separate station with a connection to the main line through the sidings. You could start off with a cassette fiddle yard, then build a similar station on the same board when you're ready, and use the cassettes for exchanging trains and wagons with the main line.

[Donw]

Jas Millham had a junction with the main line bits off stage Bishop Yaxford see here http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery5.htm there are more pictures on another page

Don

[Edwardian]

Jas originally started with just Yaxbury, turning 90 degrees into a fiddle yard, then added another 90 degrees and most of Coldbridge Halt, again leading into a fiddle yard, and finally finished off Coldbridge Halt and replaced the fiddle yard with the branch side of the junction at Bishop's Yaxford, inspired by Bartlow, Mellis, etc. on-scene the latter had up and down exchange sidings, a local goods siding and a private siding as well as the running line (with platform) and run round loop, and a glimpseof the mainlines. A road bridge hid the sector plate for running round, and also disguised the (lack of a) connection to the mainline. In effect a fully scenicked fiddle yard which was part of the operational layout.

 

Since the layout moved up to is loft, it is on two levels using a train elevator to transfer between the two.

 

A simple fiddle yard is essentially something which can be sacrificed once its use is over, but if you use cassettes they can double for storage purposes.

 

Talking of cassettes, I am often amused and sometimes horrified by what I see at exhibitions. The original scheme, as espoused by Chris Pendlenton, was a complete integrated system that had been fully tought through. The aim was to have separate cassettes for engines, so that trains would remain in single blocks but the motive power could be turned as well as "run round" without leaving the cassette deck. Other than brakevans, and maybe some goods stock, manual handling would be eliminated. The couplings would confer mechanical and electrical connectivity and ensure correct alignment. There were even cleverly designed handles for lifting cassettes so that stock would remain undamaged, and the cassettes were stored in a dustproof box which transported the trains an also provided the deck for the fiddle yard.

 

What I have seen is a six foot long cassette that held a complete train (including engine) being turned end for end, on a 2' wide deck with barely 4' between it and the wall (there was a front panel to the deck) in a manoeuvre which was being carried out very tentatively and qualified as an accident waiting to happen: separate engine cassettes would have removed that risk). I have also seen the el-cheapo adaptations using bullsog clips for alignment, with the spring part of the clip perilously close to the side of rolling stock.

 

I am all for ideas being adopted and adapted, and perhaps made simpler, but sometimes I wonder if those doing it have actually understood the bqsic design principles of what they are adapting...

 

The original concept for a cassette, with separate loco cassettes, seems just what I need.  I won't be turning trains, just locos, and the train cassettes can be tailored to the length of the train; I doubt that even the longest would exceed 3', with many a good deal shorter. 

 

People again

 

The Merry Maiden and the Tar

 

These are the last two of my 5 Preiser bodges.

 

Quite why Tempelhof would have featured quantities of sailors helping about the field is unclear, but it meant that I had to hack up the arms to get them down by his sides.  The only other work was the addition of Greenstuff to form the black tapes that hang down his front from under the blue collar.  Greenstuff was also used to provide the kit bag. 

 

The young lady is inspired by one of the wonderful candid street shots of ladies that Edward Linley Sambourne took in London in 1905-6.  She is the only really ambitious conversion of the 5, and uses the Ravenscar Pier masking tape technique to convert her from a lady of 1925 to one of 20 years earlier.  My earlier post shows the new skirt, the building up of the blouse with Greenstuff and the paper and sprue lady's boater.  I subsequently added her Edwardian hair-do with more Greenstuff.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Edwardian

[mullie]

Here are my two fiddle yards, bit of a mess at the moment as the layout is not currently operational whilst I work on the scenery.

 

Traverser holding stock as follows:

 

1. (Nearest). Through stock

2. Local stock

3. Loco road.

4. Stopping goods

5. For making up and taking off loaded and empty trains from the branch.

 

 

This is where locos are run prior to taking out a train. Roads 1(nearest) and 4 are storage sidings, 2 and 3 mainline and run round. 5 branch line. All tracks are live as layout is DCC.

 

 

At the other end is a loco cassette onto which locos are run, power is never applied to it. Once on here locos can be turned and then put onto storage roads, most likely the middle traverser road. A train cannot hit the wall as the moment it hits this cassette power is lost.

 

 

Power gets to the traverser via simple bolts made of brass rod/tubes. All dead unless both bolts are plugged in.

 

I'll post details of my cassette fiddle yard later. Hope this makes sense. It is largely made up of recycled wood and hand built copperclad track with reduced sleepering, very much bodged but it is reliable and has been for around 4-5 years.

 

 

[Donw]

With Cassettes there can be many choices the single cassette allowing the whole train to be turned quickly can be useful at exhibitions when you want to keep things moving and not be messing about (the viewing public opinion) in the fiddle yard. This is especially true if you use 3 links like me and you fellow operator is taking a break. For home use the separate loco cassettes can be more useful. Mind you unless you are descended from an Ape or have the arms of one, six foot is IMO too wide for a cassette. One thing to beware is with the loco detached the rolling stock can easily run off if the cassette is slightly tilted. Actually the same is true with or without the loco if it is one of my Portescap or ABC powered ones which roll quite freely unlike worm drives.

I like the figures you seem to be doing a good job on these. All these passenger will be wanting the trains to be running soon.

Don

[Nearholmer]

The young woman and the sailor certainly look the part.

 

I think that sailors figured at early airports because airships were classed as ships, and crewed by sailors - I'm less sure about the British set-up, but I'm 90%+ sure of this for the German case.

 

K

 

Edit: quick Google suggests that both the German Imperial army and navy had airships, but the latter more. Here is a crew.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

It was John Coulter's that inspired this one of mine 

 

At home it has the advantage that it can be against the wall but will move out far enough to turn. The distance of the entry road from the wall determines the number of tracks you can fit

Don

[Donw]

The young woman and the sailor certainly look the part.

 

I think that sailors figured at early airports because airships were classed as ships, and crewed by sailors - I'm less sure about the British set-up, but I'm 90%+ sure of this for the German case.

 

K

 

The ability to cope when dumped into the sea may have been useful in the early days of flight.

Don

[Nearholmer]

And, a bit more Googling reveals that pre-WW1 civil airships owned by DELAG were used for crew-training by the navy, and that enlisted sailors actually crewed civil passenger flights.

 

K

 

And, a somewhat later crew beret, still looking a tad naval.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Nearholmer

[mullie]

My layout is hard up against the garage wall with shelves above and below so a revolving fiddle yard is not practical and I probably couldn't build it properly anyway.

 

More 'bodgit and leggit' modelling exists at the left hand end of the layout. The car goes in the garage every night so boards at this end must be removable. This is the entrance to the fiddle yard with all scenics removed. Two pieces of aluminium angle form the entrance. The small blobs of blu tack are to fix a strip of tissue which then has a few drops of isopropanol added to help keep wheels and track clean. A similar process takes place at the other end

 

 

They link up with the cassettes creating a smooth entry and exit. A pice of strip wood helps accurate alignment.

 

 

This is how electrical contact is made, very simple.

 

 

The stock tray, like most wood used on the layout is recycled The angle sits on hard board which has worked surprisingly well and glued with 'no more nails'. Cheap scouring pads are used to stop the stock moving when in the trays and is adjustable.

 

 

In the past I've used loco and stock cassettes but this layout can't take long trains so I didn't feel it was necessary. There is very little handling of stock. This is not elegant but has also not cost much and it works. The layout doesn't have to move or be seen by the public so things don't have to be perfect. Any spare cash can be used for more important things on the layout. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

My layout is hard up against the garage wall with shelves above and below so a revolving fiddle yard is not practical and I probably couldn't build it properly anyway.

 

More 'bodgit and leggit' modelling exists at the left hand end of the layout. The car goes in the garage every night so boards at this end must be removable. This is the entrance to the fiddle yard with all scenics removed. Two pieces of aluminium angle form the entrance. The small blobs of blu tack are to fix a strip of tissue which then has a few drops of isopropanol added to help keep wheels and track clean. A similar process takes place at the other end

 

WP_20160717_13_49_37_Pro ed.jpg

 

They link up with the cassettes creating a smooth entry and exit. A pice of strip wood helps accurate alignment.

 

WP_20160717_13_50_29_Pro ed.jpg

 

This is how electrical contact is made, very simple.

 

WP_20160717_13_50_40_Pro ed.jpg

 

The stock tray, like most wood used on the layout is recycled The angle sits on hard board which has worked surprisingly well and glued with 'no more nails'. Cheap scouring pads are used to stop the stock moving when in the trays and is adjustable.

 

WP_20160717_13_50_54_Pro ed.jpg

 

In the past I've used loco and stock cassettes but this layout can't take long trains so I didn't feel it was necessary. There is very little handling of stock. This is not elegant but has also not cost much and it works. The layout doesn't have to move or be seen by the public so things don't have to be perfect. Any spare cash can be used for more important things on the layout. 

 

Brilliant.  The looks like exactly what I need.  Many thanks.

[Caley Jim]

A simple fiddle yard is essentially something which can be sacrificed once its use is over, but if you use cassettes they can double for storage purposes.

 

Talking of cassettes, I am often amused and sometimes horrified by what I see at exhibitions. The original scheme, as espoused by Chris Pendlenton, was a complete integrated system that had been fully tought through. The aim was to have separate cassettes for engines, so that trains would remain in single blocks but the motive power could be turned as well as "run round" without leaving the cassette deck. Other than brakevans, and maybe some goods stock, manual handling would be eliminated. The couplings would confer mechanical and electrical connectivity and ensure correct alignment. There were even cleverly designed handles for lifting cassettes so that stock would remain undamaged, and the cassettes were stored in a dustproof box which transported the trains an also provided the deck for the fiddle yard.

On my first layout, Connerburn, I started with a sliding 5 track traverser, which could be lifted off and turned round.  I found this cumbersome, so converted it to a rotating turntable.  I then got to the stage where I wanted to have more than 5 trains which was when i devised my own cassette system and it is probably to that which Simon refers when he mentions bulldog clips.

 

The prototype cassette

 

These are designed so that stock can be transported in them, with strips of foam draft-excluder along either side to prevent damage.  The strip of card down the centre, effectively producing a 'tramline' helps to stop vehicles derailing as the wheels cannot fall between the aluminium angle 'rails'.   They are also designed to stack on one another:

 

and with a storage box to transport them.

 

Originally I used bulldog clips for both alignment and electrical connection, but for our group layout 'Sauchenford' we had problems with alignment, so we developed little tongues of pcb which fit between the connectors on the baseboard and project a couple of mm onto the cassette, providing more accurate alignment both horizontally and vertically.

This shows a cassette with wider Al angle, the ends of which have been cranked in to match the connectors on the baseboard.   As can also be seen, the bulldog clips can be modified (bent) to keep them well clear of stock. 

 

For 2FS I settled on 700mm long cassettes for trains which remain intact with shorter ones for locos and for shorter trains or ones where the loco is to be changed.  This is a comfortable length to handle and adequate for the size of train I wish to run and upward-sliding end doors ensure that things don't slide off in the process (providing of course that you remember to close them).  Kirkallanmuir uses the same system.

 

Jim

Edited July 17, 2016 by Caley Jim

[Northroader]

Going back to your sailor figure, has castle aching gone over the North Sea? The British blue jackets were still wearing round straw hats quite late. Here's the cortège at EdwardVII's funeral, 1910.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Northroader

[The Stationmaster]

Going back to your sailor figure, has castle aching gone over the North Sea? The British blue jackets were still wearing round straw hats quite late. Here's the cortège at EdwardVII's funeral, 1910.image.jpeg

 

That is a very anachronistic hat even for that time - the sound sailor's cap was in use long before then