Castle Aching

[Martin S-C]

I was leafing through my lovely new collection of old RM magazines and only this morning came across the original Castle Rackrent article (April 1975) when it was just a terminus-fiddle-yard design 16 feet long. Amazing co-incidence.

[Hroth]

Do you know, it’s frightening the rate this thread moves at. I just found a job which reinforced something that was said not that long ago, so I looked it up. Our illustrious chairman mentioned it just eleven days back, and I see its twelve pages since, Help! we’re going at over a page a day! Anyhow, Castle Rackrent was brought up, and we briefly touched on Irish Railways. Now, I’ve just found a marvellous example, the thread has been running for two years, and I’ve only just spotted it.

Feast your minces on this, because it’s a great example of an operational OO freelance layout, similar to the aspirations of quite a few folks on this thread, using basic trains which have had a repaint. So it’s 16.5mm Irish, and not pregroup, but still well worth considering, particularly the scenic work.(p.s. it’s got a tramcar)

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115161-another-s-d-j-r/page-3

Funny you should say that about the speed with which the CA thread mutates.  I was just looking through elderly bookmarks and came across a link I made when I first encountered CA.

 

Page 23, when the subjects under discussion included coprolite, guano and fish oils.....

 

I'm now looking for when I made my first interjection, quite prepared to be embarassed by it!

[Regularity]

If you average out 12mm and 21mm, you get 16.5mm. Thus, in 4mm scale ‘00’ is equally inaccurate for most Irish railways!

There is something wonderfully balanced about this.

[St Enodoc]

Do you know, it’s frightening the rate this thread moves at. I just found a job which reinforced something that was said not that long ago, so I looked it up. Our illustrious chairman mentioned it just eleven days back, and I see its twelve pages since, Help! we’re going at over a page a day! Anyhow, Castle Rackrent was brought up, and we briefly touched on Irish Railways. Now, I’ve just found a marvellous example, the thread has been running for two years, and I’ve only just spotted it.

Feast your minces on this, because it’s a great example of an operational OO freelance layout, similar to the aspirations of quite a few folks on this thread, using basic trains which have had a repaint. So it’s 16.5mm Irish, and not pregroup, but still well worth considering, particularly the scenic work.(p.s. it’s got a tramcar)

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115161-another-s-d-j-r/page-3

Thanks for the link - now following.

[Killian keane]

Loving the rail-motors!

 

I've found a picture of the Steam Tardis, or at least one of its immediate descendants on-line: https://www.todocoleccion.net/catalogos-publicitarios/catalogo-tranvia-1878-merryweather-amb-sons-merryweather-steam-tramway-engine-catalog-1878~x39848128

Am I right in saying Merryweather rings a bell in connection with the Wantage Tramway?

Speaking of which this is their no. 4

[Martin S-C]

I have decided that I absolutely must have a model of Wantage No.4 for my Witts End Light Railway. I must investigate second hand diesel power bogies for something with a close enough wheelbase.

[Annie]

I started to build a model of No.4 with simple live steam gubbins to 1/16th scale just before I became ill.  It's a fascinating subject for a model.

[runs as required]

Has anybody else noticed what appears to be an alley cat driving the Paris Merryweather steam tram engine?

dh

 

Edit :

Another thing I now see is that it doesn't shew any chimney at all for towing the double deck car.

The Dublin and Blessington steam tram had an extra tall chimney for its DD - and even then wasn't allowed entry to the city.

Edited October 3, 2018 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

Oh now that is rather adorable! I do like the Kitson steam trams. Agree that it would be suitable for the lesser-known Bishops Lynn tramway - would certainly be interesting running alongside the usual suspects...

 

When I first came across this I thought that, as a street tram, it was rather too small for a W&U style ;one, but now I think 'why not?', let's weave it in to the story!

 

So far, the plan for GE motive power is a G15, the 1880s 0-4-0 and the obvious choice, and a C53, the very modern (1903) 0-6-0!

 

On the W&U I understand that the C53s often took the freights. Certainly, there was heavy seasonal fruit traffic.  I suspect that a similar need would exist on the Bishop's Lynn line.

 

Returning to the Kitson tram, built in 1878, I note the oval number plate. This suggests to me that it entered service under the Bromley regime; Adams's cast number-plates were rectangular. In either case, the livery would not be the famous ultramarine blue, but black, lined vermillion. According to the GERS site, Bromley retained this livery, which Adams had introduced, but thickened the lining.

 

The famous ultramarine blue was introduced by T W Wordsell and applied to all new-built locomotives from 1882.  Clearly the little Kitson, withdrawn from active service in 1881 and finally in 1884, the little tram would never have received the blue livery.

 

Now, from 1890, the blue livery was only used on passenger or mixed traffic engines, i.e. those that had Westinghouse brakes. Goods livery was unlined black. Unless the Kitson was, or had become (in our fictional extension of its history) air-brake fitted, would it have been repainted blue?

 

With, what the GERS website refers to as "typical GER perversity", a number of lowly shunting engines appeared in black but fully lined in vermilion.  In other words, here is a treatment that might leave the Kitson in her original 18798 lined black livery!

 

I have found no photographs of this little GE tram, but there a plenty of pictures of the type, such as the NCC example posted by Compound.

 

Do you know, it’s frightening the rate this thread moves at. I just found a job which reinforced something that was said not that long ago, so I looked it up. Our illustrious chairman mentioned it just eleven days back, and I see its twelve pages since, Help! we’re going at over a page a day! Anyhow, Castle Rackrent was brought up, and we briefly touched on Irish Railways. Now, I’ve just found a marvellous example, the thread has been running for two years, and I’ve only just spotted it.

Feast your minces on this, because it’s a great example of an operational OO freelance layout, similar to the aspirations of quite a few folks on this thread, using basic trains which have had a repaint. So it’s 16.5mm Irish, and not pregroup, but still well worth considering, particularly the scenic work.(p.s. it’s got a tramcar)

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115161-another-s-d-j-r/page-3

 

It is amazing how some really good stuff here remains hidden until there is a happy chance discovery.

 

I will have to take a good look at this, but it looks like a very neat and clever little system that is scenically very well done.    

[Nearholmer]

The Kitson is a tiddler, and the nature of these locos is that they would get out of breath in sustained running. They were really designed for a series of short dashes between stops. The West Carberry/Schull & Skib tried proper tram engines like this on an extended rural route and they were a miserable failure!

 

But, what if there was a 'short working' passenger shuttle at the 'city' end of your tramway?

 

I don't know how close to the urban area the tramway gets. The sort of thing I'm envisaging might shuffle only as far the first village of appreciable size, to provide a 'fill-in' at 'going home time' or the like. It would, naturally, be the first part of the service to be withdrawn, as soon as a road 'bus came into play in the district, which would mean this loco might get scrapped c1910.

[Edwardian]

The Kitson is a tiddler, and the nature of these locos is that they would get out of breath in sustained running. They were really designed for a series of short dashes between stops. The West Carberry/Schull & Skib tried proper tram engines like this on an extended rural route and they were a miserable failure!

 

But, what if there was a 'short working' passenger shuttle at the 'city' end of your tramway?

 

I don't know how close to the urban area the tramway gets. The sort of thing I'm envisaging might shuffle only as far the first village of appreciable size, to provide a 'fill-in' at 'going home time' or the like. It would, naturally, be the first part of the service to be withdrawn, as soon as a road 'bus came into play in the district, which would mean this loco might get scrapped c1910.

 

This is much my thinking, though it means that the Kitson never gets as far a CA.

 

I had a similar idea, dating back to my armchair empire-building of around 2013, IIRC. The Isle of Eldernell plan involved the "Mereport Extension", built in the 1880s to link the Isle of Eldernell to Mereport, merged with the Mereport Canal & Harbour Board. The MC&HB included some outside the quays, running through the town (for 'Mereport' read 'Wisbech') and just such a street tram passenger service was envisaged.

 

So, naturally I have though along similar lines.  Bishop's Lynn represents a substantial east-bank development north-east of King's Lynn and it is here that we would expect tracks in the town for passenger work, in addition to the goods traffic on the quays.  How far would the local passenger traffic extend?  well, not far, but I very much like your idea of going as far as the first village of appreciable size. 

 

We can leave Toby and Henrietta to make the longer trips through to CA.

 

 

I have decided that I absolutely must have a model of Wantage No.4 for my Witts End Light Railway. I must investigate second hand diesel power bogies for something with a close enough wheelbase.

 

You might struggle to find a motor bogie with a 16mm wheel-base.  Spoked wheels only a tad larger than correct (10.5mm) can be found, but the w/bs are longer.

[Nearholmer]

Have you looked at MBs designed for sub-16.5mm gauges? There are teeny little Japanese ones for N-gauge bogie tramcars, very cheap and beautifully engineered, but they would be way too small, but a hunt around among foreign makes can pay dividends. Years back I used some sort of N-gauge mechanism in a p.way trolley in 0n14, and it ran very well, despite having plastic wheels (models of those pressed-steel wheels used on trolleys) and track-wiper current collection and weighing about as much as two small feathers.

 

Making extended axles isn't too difficult, although the exercise might get fiddly if coupling rods and valve gear are involved.

[Nearholmer]

I remembered that the relevant book was in the top box in the cupboard, so managed to find it without extensive mining.

 

Drawing of the ‘steam tardis’. The relevant edition of Engineering isn’t available on-line, but who knows what the copyright position is on an image that is in the public domain in its original form, but is then reproduced in a book? So, a photo of the book!

 

The book in question is Volume 1 (of so many they lost count, I think) of Gladwin’s ‘A history of the British steam tram’, which is the least-edited collection of interesting stuff and rambling prose ever published. He put everything in, in the sense that an infinite jumble sale would contain everything!

 

if it was driven in Paris by a cat, it was probably a scalded one, given how much room there is for it not to swing in the cab.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Killian keane]

"is it electric grandfather?"

Theres a few nice ones on this page including a rather smart Manning Wardle and a Beyer Peacock

http://www.tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com/page148/page151/styled-160/page583.html

[Nearholmer]

You can have electric trams that look like steam trams!

 

Birmingham was quite big on battery trams, with sophisticated battery-swapping systems to allow newly charged cells to be fitted during a shift, and their ‘first try’ was a beautiful little loco, just like the preceding steamers, although they soon put the batteries in the cars. You can also have gas or oil engined ones that look like steamers, plus a host of other exotic kinds.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Talltim]

A working steam tram in Bern

[Martin S-C]

Hm... they are the same, even down to the control levers. This proves that the Victorian Parisian incarnation of the Doctor was an alley cat.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Nearholmer]

My son, who knows about these things, refers us to these characters from Dr Who.

[Edwardian]

Steam punk Tardis.jpg

 

Hm... they are the same, even down to the control levers. This proves that the Victorian Parisian incarnation of the Doctor was an alley cat.

 

My son, who knows about these things, refers us to these characters from Dr Who.

[Martin S-C]

Which links us back to the curious green glow seen over the Fens. Its all starting to fall into place.

[Edwardian]

Which links us back to the curious green glow seen over the Fens. Its all starting to fall into place.

 

What with Martians, Cat People and the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909, it's a wonder there is anything of Edwardian Norfolk left. 

[Martin S-C]

It'll make a very interesting model railway, that's for sure.

[Donw]

The best model I have seen of a J70 was built by Clarey Edwards in 0 gauge. Clarey was a stickler for accuracy all his locos were live steam and would feature the right number of cylinders and the correct valve gear. His would purr round the track pulling a long string of wagons. Just the thing for a heavy train of produce.

 

As for the rate of progress it is difficult to keep up I shall have to start posting answers to things yet to appear . I expect everyone will think the original was pages back and just treat it as normal.

 

Don

[Regularity]

What with Martians, Cat People and the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909, it's a wonder there is anything of Edwardian Norfolk left.

 

If all the jokes are true, it wouldn’t need many of them to start (in)breeding again...

Oh, you mean the place. I thought you meant the people.

 

Edit: anyway, it’s not true. That’s the Lincolnshire fens near Holbeach.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Regularity

[Edwardian]

 

As for the rate of progress it is difficult to keep up I shall have to start posting answers to things yet to appear . I expect everyone will think the original was pages back and just treat it as normal.

 

Don

 

With a 49' wheel-base, they are too long for CA turntable, so there is no need to pretend one survived past 1898. I think the class must have looked striking in the original "Bruised Peach" livery.  It is shame that their rebuilding to 4-2-2 Compounds saw them out-shopped in "Obscure Black".