Jump to content
 

Recommended Posts

 

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Are we assuming that Wolferton is renamed Wolfingham?

 

I wasn't thinking re-named, so much as supplanted by, in that Wolfringham is clearly a bigger, busier place, which simply happens to be in roughly the same location as, and share one or two buildings with, Wolferton.

 

But, as Master of The Achingverse, clearly the decision is yours.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

I wasn't thinking re-named, so much as supplanted by, in that Wolfringham is clearly a bigger, busier place, which simply happens to be in roughly the same location as, and share one or two buildings with, Wolferton.

 

But, as Master of The Achingverse, clearly the decision is yours.

 

Understood, and perfectly proper reasoning.  However, renaming a real place, as opposed to adding new ones, would be novel in my scheme!

 

I had thought something like the route below, how does that compare with your scheme?

 

1577229652_Wolfertonaerial1-Copy-Copy.jpg.fefafe1a2d14b1d9bcdde9237526d9ca.jpg

 

15 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

The Midland and Great Northern Joint railway had their Norwich City railway station located in the West of the city. Could the West Norfolk Railway maybe have had an arrangement to share their terminus. If not, there are many other roundabouts on the ring road that could have been the original location for the West Norfolk's station.

 

Totally off topic and also irreverent, the White lion pub shown on the google satellite image is somewhere that I've enjoyed a few jars in the distant past. :pleasantry:

 

Then and now....

 

 

Norwich City Station.jpg

Norwich City  site.jpg

 

The Lynn & Fakenham announced its push to Norwich in 1879, reaching it in 1882.

 

I imagine the WNR taking up that challenge.  The dates work for the WNR expansion.  How both schemes made it through Parliament remains a mystery, but clearly both companies were heading for the west of Norwich at around the same time!

 

Not sure which company got there first, but, though the angle of approach is different, both must have been heading for a similar spot to that occupied by Norwich City.  So I imagine we are looking for a plot in the general area of the MGN station.  

 

678604016_WNRMap-East.jpeg.60489cb26131859ece71d7cd6a900f4c.jpeg

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Not sure if it's come up before, (quick search say's no!) but there is a ruined church to St Felix about 1.5 mile SSE of Wolferton

 

image.png.ed9e6346cd64a2e32630d4a70fea4d0b.png

Copyright Gintaras Girdzius

 

https://goo.gl/maps/VGQDG839qLxcMxQT6

 

Yep, I had spotted that.  You can see it at the bottom of the satellite view below. 

 

 

Wolferton aerial 1 - Copy - Copy.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

BTW, Wolfringham is a corruption of Wuffingashaem, so called because the Norfolk royal family of the early Saxon period lived there, and they were the ones who invited St Felix over, so it all fits.

 

Perfect.  That extrapolation of 'primary world' history is very much what we aim at.

 

In the meantime, I've been doodling.  Is this the sort of thing you meant by your previous comment?

 

 

Wolferton aerial 1 - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, looking at Babingley on Wiki, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babingley) St Felix was the first Christian church in Norfolk.

 

A legend claims that Felix was shipwrecked on the River Babingley but a colony of beavers saved him from drowning, so in gratitude Felix consecrated the chief beaver as a bishop. The village sign records the legend, showing a beaver wearing a bishop's mitre, ministering to other beavers.

 

A shrine to Beavers, you couldn't make it up any better!

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Edwardian,

 

That’s the sort of thing, although I thought the river and settlement were called Cabbingley.

 

K

 

Right, so Wolfringham still somewhere else?

 

A small village by the harbour, Wolfringham Staithe as the only Wolfringham?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Which part of Norwich do we demolish?

 

2048732358_20201017_173747-Copy.jpg.598313558cd1fa878630c89e5d580460.jpg

 

What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?.

 

As to your question.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974

Link to post
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Shadow said:

 

What about coming along the River Yare instead

 

Norwich.png.6c6f1b171c42150e154e65e0ae75eac6.png

 

OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich.

 

Picture2.jpg.762661167b2bed9d0e6b28ba626e5cc7.jpg

 

Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. 

 

Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line.

 

It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus.  Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below.  The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender.  Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's.

 1970130183_20201017_183928-Copy.jpg.1faef356845b6e7bf807b2323d9f974b.jpg

 

 

  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich.

 

Picture2.jpg.762661167b2bed9d0e6b28ba626e5cc7.jpg

 

Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. 

 

Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line.

 

It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus.  Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below.  The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender.  Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's.

 1970130183_20201017_183928-Copy.jpg.1faef356845b6e7bf807b2323d9f974b.jpg

 

 

 

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Whoops!

 

Norwich_RC_Cathedral.jpg.cf4a7280e4f91fd6a12af10340c7e152.jpg

 

Better re-think!

 

I think I may have been being guided by Shadow to terminate the line short of the housing, when I compare his modern map to the 1880s survey.

 

This does leave the WNR further from the City centre than either of its rivals!

1354140070_Picture2-Copy.jpg.ab25738b6967a691328a09fb52a7ec1b.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.5d37a10955ad04ec761dbc31d7cb13e8.png

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

Edited by Shadow
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
9 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Whoops!

Whoops indeed.  It would be the Reformation all over again.

  • Funny 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?.

 

As to your question.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974

 

It might have been sensible, and the 'will of Parliament' for the WNR and the Lynn & Fakenham to build a joint approach and station.  A very sound suggestion you make.

 

However, it is my preference not to do violence to Norfolk as was.  Rather than an altered Norfolk, I prefer More Norfolk!

 

This even to the extent of not liking to re-name real places!

 

More fun anyway to event a new terminus!

 

5 minutes ago, Shadow said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

 

Yes, that would work, and I like that layout.  of course, it means that next door is a large gothic church under construction.  What fun to model that!

 

Thanks, we may have the answer.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884.

 

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too:

 

551682787_StPancrasfromthePentonvilleRoadcompressed.jpg.4316ee95cad04005a3b70fd6dc15cb0a.jpg

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884.

 

 

Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too:

 

551682787_StPancrasfromthePentonvilleRoadcompressed.jpg.4316ee95cad04005a3b70fd6dc15cb0a.jpg

 

Agree on both counts.

 

Now, can anyone find pictures of St Jon the Baptist under construction?

 

EDIT: apparently one was reproduced in an article in the Eastern Daily Press in 2010.

 

Oooh, but we do get trams along Earlham Road!

 

 

50045018401_28af7c565e_b.jpg.1f3eedaafbd952594dd1be982ca97d90.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

And large country houses that got turned into army training colleges, management colleges, and then rather strange, rambling, and slightly faded hotels.

 

He clearly recycled motifs, possibly entire sub-sections of designs.

 

View from room in which we stayed while on my significant birthday weekend last year.

 

 

97815789-E54C-43C9-BDD9-41EF22CC9867.jpeg

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

I know little of which you speak, but this current saga has been most interesting and must be gratifying to those concerned  for all the research of the area and the railway.    Always a problem to know where to put it especially in established  communities.  Never knew much of what went on east of the London area.   A recent TV programme on freeways in the US had the same situation and the general conclusion was to put it through the poorer areas of town, getting rid of eyesores and slums in the process.  It worked to a degree but it also displaced mainly black and poor which leaves the situation where it is today.  It is doubtful any more freeways will be needed for a while, nor even more unlikely, railways.  If so, new options will be needed!

     Brian.

Edited by brianusa
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shadow said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.5d37a10955ad04ec761dbc31d7cb13e8.png

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

 

It seems that I must destroy something, in this case, the mid-Nineteenth Century gardens.

 

444101751_1280px-The_Plantation_Garden_Norwich.jpg.ad743c198a087bee1f4a41ab3a1e4f81.jpg

 

Wiki tells is that:

 

The Plantation Garden, located at 4 Earlham Road, Norwich, was established 140 years ago in a 3-acre (12,000 m2) abandoned chalk quarry by Henry Trevor, a Norwich shopkeeper. Over a period of forty years the gardens became a showpiece that featured terraces, water features and rockeries surrounded by a large fountain, all styled on Italian Renaissance designs. It once featured eight glasshouses. The design may have been influenced by the architect Edward Boardman, who worked for Trevor on other projects.

After Henry Trevor died in 1897, the gardens slowly became neglected.

 

Link

 

Shadow has pointed out the fun a tunnel would be, so, does the WNR fill it in and bring it to ground level, or, does it tunnel under cliff terrace and what was then Grove Street and emerge somewhere in the vicinity of Vine Cottage (see lower of the two 1880s map images)? 

 

This avoids destroying any housing.

 

277667372_PlantationAerial1-Copy.jpg.ec6293ba07207b6cd44477e1247e7ba4.jpg

 

 

3.jpg.b3091fbba8a3fbb2ecb18be2bbc30954.jpg

 

4.jpg.0e505d25d181483e31d67b162bf66963.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...