Jump to content

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Edwardian,

 

That’s the sort of thing, although I thought the river and settlement were called Cabbingley.

 

K

 

Right, so Wolfringham still somewhere else?

 

A small village by the harbour, Wolfringham Staithe as the only Wolfringham?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not being clear: Wolfringham is now where you've put it, but in my head I'd re-designated Babingly as Cabbingley. 

 

You can tell that I'm not really keeping-up with The Rules here.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Which part of Norwich do we demolish?

 

2048732358_20201017_173747-Copy.jpg.598313558cd1fa878630c89e5d580460.jpg

 

What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?.

 

As to your question.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Shadow said:

 

What about coming along the River Yare instead

 

Norwich.png.6c6f1b171c42150e154e65e0ae75eac6.png

 

OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich.

 

Picture2.jpg.762661167b2bed9d0e6b28ba626e5cc7.jpg

 

Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. 

 

Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line.

 

It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus.  Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below.  The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender.  Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's.

 1970130183_20201017_183928-Copy.jpg.1faef356845b6e7bf807b2323d9f974b.jpg

 

 

  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

OK, so the WNR follows the Yare until Earlham, and then the line of the Earlham Road into Norwich.

 

Picture2.jpg.762661167b2bed9d0e6b28ba626e5cc7.jpg

 

Above, the bend of the Yare at Earlham to the left, with the Earlham road running left-right. 

 

Now, these maps show an 1880-1884 survey. This is the period within which the WNR would have been obtaining parliamentary powers and building the line.

 

It suggests that the WNR would need to wreak great havoc and destruction south of the Earlham Road and in Heigham Grove, with a terminus.  Perhaps the terminus would sit in the angle of land marked "The Plantation" and "Carriage Works" on the map below.  The Earlham Road is highlighted in lavender.  Incidentally, opposite that corner was the Drill Hall that inspired CA's.

 1970130183_20201017_183928-Copy.jpg.1faef356845b6e7bf807b2323d9f974b.jpg

 

 

 

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Whoops!

 

Norwich_RC_Cathedral.jpg.cf4a7280e4f91fd6a12af10340c7e152.jpg

 

Better re-think!

 

I think I may have been being guided by Shadow to terminate the line short of the housing, when I compare his modern map to the 1880s survey.

 

This does leave the WNR further from the City centre than either of its rivals!

1354140070_Picture2-Copy.jpg.ab25738b6967a691328a09fb52a7ec1b.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.5d37a10955ad04ec761dbc31d7cb13e8.png

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

Edited by Shadow
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Whoops!

Whoops indeed.  It would be the Reformation all over again.

  • Funny 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

What about bringing the railway tracks into the city alongside those of the M&GNJR?.

 

As to your question.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/from-external-cladding-to-a-lack-of-extinguishers-we-look-at-how-safe-norwich-s-tower-blocks-really-are-1-5066974

 

It might have been sensible, and the 'will of Parliament' for the WNR and the Lynn & Fakenham to build a joint approach and station.  A very sound suggestion you make.

 

However, it is my preference not to do violence to Norfolk as was.  Rather than an altered Norfolk, I prefer More Norfolk!

 

This even to the extent of not liking to re-name real places!

 

More fun anyway to event a new terminus!

 

5 minutes ago, Shadow said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

 

Yes, that would work, and I like that layout.  of course, it means that next door is a large gothic church under construction.  What fun to model that!

 

Thanks, we may have the answer.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884.

 

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Oh, I've just taken the site of the Roman Catholic church of St John the Baptist.  A design of George Gilbert Scott, built 1882-1910 and in modern times made a cathedral!

 

Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too:

 

551682787_StPancrasfromthePentonvilleRoadcompressed.jpg.4316ee95cad04005a3b70fd6dc15cb0a.jpg

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Re. the crossing of the Great Eastern at Wolfringham: it puts me in mind of the Somerset & Dorset's crossing of the Bristol and Exeter at Highbridge, to reach Burnham-on-sea. S&D station, then a flat crossing (S&D single line, B&E double) with a slip connection from the B&E onto the Burnham branch: https://maps.nls.uk/view/106020884.

 

 

Well, he could turn his hand to station hotels too:

 

551682787_StPancrasfromthePentonvilleRoadcompressed.jpg.4316ee95cad04005a3b70fd6dc15cb0a.jpg

 

Agree on both counts.

 

Now, can anyone find pictures of St Jon the Baptist under construction?

 

EDIT: apparently one was reproduced in an article in the Eastern Daily Press in 2010.

 

Oooh, but we do get trams along Earlham Road!

 

 

50045018401_28af7c565e_b.jpg.1f3eedaafbd952594dd1be982ca97d90.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

And large country houses that got turned into army training colleges, management colleges, and then rather strange, rambling, and slightly faded hotels.

 

He clearly recycled motifs, possibly entire sub-sections of designs.

 

View from room in which we stayed while on my significant birthday weekend last year.

 

 

97815789-E54C-43C9-BDD9-41EF22CC9867.jpeg

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

I know little of which you speak, but this current saga has been most interesting and must be gratifying to those concerned  for all the research of the area and the railway.    Always a problem to know where to put it especially in established  communities.  Never knew much of what went on east of the London area.   A recent TV programme on freeways in the US had the same situation and the general conclusion was to put it through the poorer areas of town, getting rid of eyesores and slums in the process.  It worked to a degree but it also displaced mainly black and poor which leaves the situation where it is today.  It is doubtful any more freeways will be needed for a while, nor even more unlikely, railways.  If so, new options will be needed!

     Brian.

Edited by brianusa
  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shadow said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6289482,1.2818189,3a,75y,164.55h,85.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZnI2l-q_6ndJWOIuJIIWbNXG_HsbW2Oga29ly%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya96.40538-ro-0-fo100!7i4000!8i2000

 

The Plantation still looks ok if you come from a lower route. Would also put the terminus building on the main road.

 

Exit out a tunnel straight into the station! (Where have I seen idea this before???)

 

image.png.5d37a10955ad04ec761dbc31d7cb13e8.png

 

image.png.e36201f6ccc024bcee5e52ff84d11784.png

 

It seems that I must destroy something, in this case, the mid-Nineteenth Century gardens.

 

444101751_1280px-The_Plantation_Garden_Norwich.jpg.ad743c198a087bee1f4a41ab3a1e4f81.jpg

 

Wiki tells is that:

 

The Plantation Garden, located at 4 Earlham Road, Norwich, was established 140 years ago in a 3-acre (12,000 m2) abandoned chalk quarry by Henry Trevor, a Norwich shopkeeper. Over a period of forty years the gardens became a showpiece that featured terraces, water features and rockeries surrounded by a large fountain, all styled on Italian Renaissance designs. It once featured eight glasshouses. The design may have been influenced by the architect Edward Boardman, who worked for Trevor on other projects.

After Henry Trevor died in 1897, the gardens slowly became neglected.

 

Link

 

Shadow has pointed out the fun a tunnel would be, so, does the WNR fill it in and bring it to ground level, or, does it tunnel under cliff terrace and what was then Grove Street and emerge somewhere in the vicinity of Vine Cottage (see lower of the two 1880s map images)? 

 

This avoids destroying any housing.

 

277667372_PlantationAerial1-Copy.jpg.ec6293ba07207b6cd44477e1247e7ba4.jpg

 

 

3.jpg.b3091fbba8a3fbb2ecb18be2bbc30954.jpg

 

4.jpg.0e505d25d181483e31d67b162bf66963.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Andy Hayter said:

A small point of correction, you need destroy nothing providing you reach Norwich before 1880.  But you will be in place to ensure that the gardens are developed elsewhere.

 

Happy to beat the Lynn & Fakenham to Norwich by 2-3 years, why, was the Plantation Garden not created until 1880?

 

If so, all I am doing is re-cycling an abandoned chalk pit and my conscience is clear!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Wiki tells is that:

 

The Plantation Garden, located at 4 Earlham Road, Norwich, was established 140 years ago in a 3-acre (12,000 m2) abandoned chalk quarry by Henry Trevor, a Norwich shopkeeper. Over a period of forty years the gardens became a showpiece that featured terraces, water features and rockeries surrounded by a large fountain, all styled on Italian Renaissance designs. It once featured eight glasshouses. The design may have been influenced by the architect Edward Boardman, who worked for Trevor on other projects.

After Henry Trevor died in 1897, the gardens slowly became neglected.

 

So by my sums - 2020 - 140 = 1880 = bingo

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

So by my sums - 2020 - 140 = 1880 = bingo

 

Yes, but there was a reference to the mid-Nineteenth Century.

 

"A city garden laid out with advice from the architect Edward Boardman between 1857 and the 1890s" according to Historic England

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I accept that that is a bit different to your earlier post, but nevertheless I assume the WNR would have been in discussion with landowners well in advance of physical arrival.   It was after all "industrial part of the city"  prior to 1855.   A small massage of history is all that is needed.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

OK, I accept that that is a bit different to your earlier post, but nevertheless I assume the WNR would have been in discussion with landowners well in advance of physical arrival.   It was after all "industrial part of the city"  prior to 1855.   A small massage of history is all that is needed.

 

Henry Trevor buys elsewhere in the 1850s!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

So, by the mid-late 1870s, this is still an abandoned chalk pit.

 

The houses that Henry Trevor would have built on the high ground fronting Earlham St (The Beeches and The Planation, IIRC) are, of course, never built, but this provides the ideal site for a forecourt and station building with steps down to platform level.  

 

A ramp can take traffic down to the goods yard. 

 

The line can exit via a tunnel and clear the fringe of Norwich housing at something like its narrowest point underground, rising in the fields beyond via a cutting up to ground level. 

 

And so to bed ...

 

587248704_PlantationAerial1-Copy-Copy(2).jpg.b9d818b5cc3df60de714649fce905264.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
  • Round of applause 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I'm thinking that the story of the discovery of the statue would be particularly powerful if the shepherd had thrust the but of his crook into the ground, and struck something solid, whereupon the sky suddenly brightened and the sun broke through the clouds. Would make a particularly dramatic large oil painting in the high Victorian style I think.

That reminds me of a cartoon I saw years ago, where two monks were walking down the road and, beneath a glowering sky, a huge hand was pointing towards the top of a nearby hill. The caption read something like "That looks like a good place".

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.