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Correct!  As always, Google and Wikipedia are your friends!  :)

 

that was also known as 'Scotch Gauge', being used on some of the early Scottish railways - Monkland & Kirkintilloch, Ballochney, Garnkirk and Glasgow.

 

Jim

Edited by Caley Jim
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A few strange gauges originate in measuring between rail centres, then changing to measuring between inner faces, but I’ve no idea whether or not this one does.

 

Model railway gauges started that way: 35mm; 48mm etc, then losing 3mm, which is the diameter of tinplate tubular rail-head.

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

Wondering what the origins of 4 1/2 ft gauge were - perhaps an attempt to rationalise standard gauge to a nice round number?

It was an early (failed) attempt to make railways conform to 00/H0 instead of EM or P4. In the end only the Redruth and Chasewater, and the Padarn got it right at 4ft:)

 

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1 hour ago, webbcompound said:

It was an early (failed) attempt to make railways conform to 00/H0 instead of EM or P4. In the end only the Redruth and Chasewater, and the Padarn got it right at 4ft:)

 

Surely 4½ feet is EM?

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13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's eighteen millimetres but is that EM? Surely EM is 4'6⅝", give or take?

Well played sir!. The track gauge is not eighteen millimetres, but eighteen point two millimetres.

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's eighteen millimetres but is that EM? Surely EM is 4'6⅝", give or take?

Originally, it was 18mm, hence EM.

Just like the real railways were originally 18 hands gauge...

I was going to add that technically, it should be 4’6.6”, but comforted myself that the readership of this thread would get the point without quibbling over six tenths of an inch, and more importantly be aware of the history of the hobby in this regard, although apparently not:

3 hours ago, rocor said:

Well played sir!. The track gauge is not eighteen millimetres, but eighteen point two millimetres.

Well, firstly, see above.

Secondly, I was responding to the idea that it was an attempt to make things more like 00, which it patently isn’t.

 

The point two was added because the original idea of BRMSB 00+1.5mm gave some problems on curves etc with longer wheelbases, just as on the prototype, ½” was added to standard gauge and ¼” to Brunel’s gauge. Or in Peter Denny’s case, because he had made his track gauge slightly over wide.

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Just now, webbcompound said:

And hence why I said "it was an early (failed) attempt to make railways conform to 00/H0 instead of EM or P4"". All the information is there, it just needs to be read.

But since EM started as 18mm which equates to 4’6”, it was a very failed attempt as it doesn’t parse.

If you had said, “an early attempt to promote EM gauge”, you would have been bang on and funny.

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1 minute ago, webbcompound said:

Regularity. Do you make this kind of picky crappy response to everyone, or is it just me?

 

Don't feel especially honoured but treat it as just part and parcel of his charm. I'd rather have a tart response from Simon than an anodyne "like" any day - it makes life more interesting.

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59 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

Regularity. Do you make this kind of picky crappy response to everyone, or is it just me?

I have found you to be, at times, petty and indeed picky with me. Mostly, I just ignore you, but occasionally I just get bored enough to respond, although it does give me a headache.

But no one is immune, and I have had spells on the naughty step as a consequence. So don’t feel picked on.

Actually, I just thought your remark was mildly amusing, but could have been uproarious. 

55 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Don't feel especially honoured but treat it as just part and parcel of his charm. I'd rather have a tart response from Simon than an anodyne "like" any day - it makes life more interesting.

Quite.

Who wants to be dull?

 

And I can be charming, when I feel so inclined, as well you know, Stephen.

Edited by Regularity
Please don’t think it’s personal. It really isn’t.
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12 hours ago, DonB said:

May I show my ignorance (again!) ... what is/was "Dartmoor gauge" ?

Since only CKRR has tried to actually answer your question- correctly-  I'll have a go with a bit more detail.

 

Dartmoor gauge was the 4ft 6in gauge originally adopted by the Plymouth and Dartmoor railway that ran from Princetown to Crabtree Wharf near Laira  It was Devon's first iron railway (rail in chairs fixed to granite blocks)  built in 1823 and horse drawn mainly to carry stone from quarries on Dartmoor (including the granite used to build Nelon's Column) It was soon extended to Sutton Pool in Plymouth and boasted Britain's second railway tunnel .

 

Since there were no other railways in the county there was no reason to adopt the Stephenson gauge and when the main line did appear it was Brunel's seven foot variety (at least unil the LSWR turned up)  Most of its route was later taken over by the  GWR for its line to Tavistock and Launceston as far as Yelverton and its branch from Yelverton to Princetown. The new loco hauled line required broader curves so it diverged from the P&D in many places . The P&D's lower section from Sutton to Plympton was was also used by the Lee Moor Tramway which was built for China Clay and descended from Lee Moor by a couple of inclined planes. It was horse drawn at the lower end and up at the quarries and had a level crossing with the GW main line near Plympton but in 1899 bought a couple of small Peckett 0-4-0T saddle tank locos to handle the the increasingly heavy traffic between the two balanced rope hauled inclines. Both have been preserved but their unusual gauge means they have nowhere to run.

The railway was replaced by a pipeline in about 1945 but the lower end remained and its owners maintained their right of way by running a horse drawn sand train across the level crossing several times a year until 1960. This gave the odd siight of a four foot six gauge line crossing the standard gauge.m

 

There was a third separate tramway on Dartmoor that was almost certainly built to the same Dartmoor Gauge. It was for peat extraction and ran from the moors down to Dartmoor Prison which it supplied (probably along with other customers) with peat for  heating and naptha gas for lighting.  

 

I explored some of this while a marine engineering student in Plymouth in the late 1960s and at that time quite a lot of the route of the P.&D.Ry  - in places where the GWR line had diverged- still had the granite blocks in place. I've no idea what's left now.

Edited by Pacific231G
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44 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

And no, this isn't meant to be an attempt at character assassination.

I never thought it was, Kevin, merely good-natured banter.

And a point well made.

 

45 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The glass in my house is too fragile for that to be a good idea.

Well, some people in glass houses not only wear no clothes, but switch the lights on and then ask why everyone is looking at them.

 

49 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

"Spiny" shirley?

I get that, but I think it might be extremely obtuse for most people.

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The above response sums it up pretty well.  At my age I can remember 'action' on the lower section and the incline at Plymbridge still in use  There were a few comments on this subject in this site a while back which pertained to this interesting railway and the last time I was back, it was in the same condition as mentioned.

     Brian

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Edwardians projects are fasciniting and his approach erudite. They are one of the few sources of light in the current darkness. This has been a long year of isolation and it was perhaps stupid of me to imagine that online communities would provide support, however everything has to end and that includes Webbcompound.

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