Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Out of curiosity I googled around and suspect you can get something good enough for nearer your budget. 

 

Yes, I suspect workshops/garages are the way to go. If anyone comes up with something of suitable size, please let me know.

[petethemole]

56 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

So, this shed.

 

I discover that I am to sheds what Jeremy Clarkson was to farming; ignorant and wildly over-optimistic.  

 

There is a company, named for a wading bird, that advertises its garden buildings in the railway modelling press. I reckoned these would be at the higher end of pricing, but, as they did an online pricing tool, I thought I'd get an indicative price.  Well, for something even approaching the size I can accommodate on the land, with insulation and electricity (but no heating and only one small window), I was clocking up £30K.  I'd thought a reasonable budget might be £5K. 

 

I'm thinking I might have to buy 4 bog-standard potting sheds and knock them through, and line with insulation!

 

Percy the Park Keeper lives in his shed.  I wonder if the Council H&S know about that?

[Northroader]

There’s a person lives near us running a small business making sheds and fencing to customers specifications and sizes, at reasonable prices.  I feel if you poke around closer to Barney you’ll find a similar setup, offering better job than what you’ll  find in the big orange shed, say. Before I got ours I did look at one who advertises nationally who supplies sheds with a “railway” look, but the prices were much higher. From what I’ve seen right now is a bad time to pick, it seems somehow there’s a world wide shortage of timber, creating long delays and higher prices.

[Andy Hayter]

Don't forget the Portacabin and container options when looking at ideas.  Perhaps not as nice to look at

[Donw]

Having demolished several outbuildings too close to the house I have a large pile of bricks so this is my shed it needs finishing off.

 

[Matti8]

8 hours ago, Edwardian said:

So, this shed.

 

I discover that I am to sheds what Jeremy Clarkson was to farming; ignorant and wildly over-optimistic.  

 

There is a company, named for a wading bird, that advertises its garden buildings in the railway modelling press. I reckoned these would be at the higher end of pricing, but, as they did an online pricing tool, I thought I'd get an indicative price.  Well, for something even approaching the size I can accommodate on the land, with insulation and electricity (but no heating and only one small window), I was clocking up £30K.  I'd thought a reasonable budget might be £5K. 

 

I'm thinking I might have to buy 4 bog-standard potting sheds and knock them through, and line with insulation!

 

 

It seems pre-built sheds are all the rage in the UK. I'm not from there and I don't know your situation but imho you should build one yourself. Because ever since the peak Covid months prices of materials and supplies have gone up. In turn these companies go out and charge ridiculous prices for building/delivering. If you bought the materials and built it that is easily the most economical route. I'd say you could easily fit it within your budget.

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, Matti8 said:

 

It seems pre-built sheds are all the rage in the UK. I'm not from there and I don't know your situation but imho you should build one yourself. Because ever since the peak Covid months prices of materials and supplies have gone up. In turn these companies go out and charge ridiculous prices for building/delivering. If you bought the materials and built it that is easily the most economical route. I'd say you could easily fit it within your budget.

 

You are quite right there, and I am sorely tempted, but I'am not the most practical of chaps and wonder if thereby lies the source of further years of mess and procrastination!

[Compound2632]

It had occurred to me that a building using materials and methods traditional and appropriate to the area might be better but I hadn't dared make the suggestion...

[Edwardian]

30 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

It had occurred to me that a building using materials and methods traditional and appropriate to the area might be better but I hadn't dared make the suggestion...

 

That could work, and certainly in line with my DIY métier.

 

[Edwardian]

I have a site, not anywhere near a boundary, which is level (which most of the property isn't) and that fits between the house and the outbuildings.

 

It is currently 'laid to lawn', as estate agents put it, and so  a railway room here would reduce the amount of mowing I have to do! 

 

A concrete plinth is not ideal. For one thing I want to be able to restore the lawn whenever I leave.  For another, I like the idea of a bit of air circulating beneath the structure as a discouragement of damp.

 

I like, therefore, the idea of a gravel bed over a damp-proof membrane.  I understand that stones need to be of varying grades, the better to interlock. There are then plastic shed bases, though I think I'd like to stick to treated timber baulks, probably 4x4.  The floor joists would be laid across these. 

 

There would, I think, be a danger that I would not be able to get such a large area sufficiently level and I do wonder if this technique is practical over an area this large.  It will be a rather large and heavy shed.

 

The narrow apron of gravel around the edge would seem to act somewhat like a French drain. 

 

 

 

  

 

EDIT: Compound and Northroader were right about prices. As Northroader suggested, somewhere more local was worth exploring. So, I easily found a place in Darlington that would charge £7,453.00 (inclusive of VAT, fitting and delivery) for a 26' x 14', which is the width of the narrower part, so I'd have to add the additional 3' lean-to to the bulk of one side. 

 

There would be a lot of expense on insulation and adding an inner wall to add, of course.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Edwardian

[Northroader]

Two points:

a) that’s a lot of shed, are you making it that big for a layout that big? No names, no pack drill, but there are sheds and layouts on here that to me look overly ambitious and seem to be suffering as a result. CA is a lovely start with a decent size planned. Keep it simple.

b) Local hero who made my shed (not for model purposes, so it’s just 7’ x 5’) had the know how, craftsmanship, and experience of doing sheds. It’s placed on a sloping site, which is well drained. Then stakes are driven into the ground (clay subsoil) around three foot spacing and a sub framework bolted to them, then a floor unit (frame and t&g floor) secured on top, then wall and roof sections bolt on to that. No really prepared foundations.

[Nearholmer]

I’m with Mr Northroader in having worries about over-ambition here, but each person knows their own capacity for getting things done, and yours might be greater than mine.

 

A variation on the very good support method that NR mentions is to use concrete spur-posts. These are like short concrete fence posts, installed so as to poke out of the ground by about 500mm. Usually one bolts wooden posts to them, but they can be used rather like staddles, to support floor beams clear of the ground. If installed on say a 1 metre grid they will be plenty to bear the weight of a shed.

[Compound2632]

The post-in-the-ground method runs the risk of rot, of course. As an aside, I read recently that Midland Railway signalboxes, which were built on this stick-posts-in-the-ground principle, had a design lifetime of around 25 years, The idea was that with continuous expansion and improvement of the company's network, they would need replacing within that timescale anyway by something larger. That worked well from the 1870s up to the Great War. From the onwards infrastructure renewal and improvement largely stalled. It's amazing given the inherent drawbacks of the design and years of neglect, so many Midland boxes have survived - many in use for at least three times their design life, many now in preservation are now well over a century old. (Their portability has helped with preservation, of course. Moving a brick-based box is a much more challenging proposition.)

[Northroader]

We’ve had the shed for exactly twelve years now, (cost just under a grand) in that time it’s had two coats of paint  Two years ago we spotted some  white mould in one corner. Shed man came and looked, one corner of floor touching the ground causing this. So shed sections were unbolted, shifted, and new longer stakes driven in, so shed is a couple of inches higher, and new roofing felt done at same time.

It would have been inconvenient if model layout had been housed inside, certainly, so permanency is something to consider. We just use it for a summer house, although it’s a constant struggle stopping junk accumulating, and the granddaughters enjoy it as a personal space. I could get a 6’ x 4’ in there (lower from the roof on pulleys?) and I have had a 7’ terminus/fiddle yard stored across the back.

[Edwardian]

I share the concerns of Concerned Parishioners. 

 

No one feels more keenly than do I the vast gulf between ambition and achievement that affects my projects. I ruefully reflect upon Wells's Artilleryman.

 

My thought process, faulty though it may be, does suggest to me that this may be the way forward, however. 

 

As I think I mentioned, however, the shed is by way of setting some limit to that ambition, and leaving room to expand.  As I already confirmed, I would seek to finish CA to a reasonable standard and run it into a cassette yard before attempting more boards.

 

Next would come Achingham, having set aside the real estate necessary to insert a junction and build a board for that terminus.

 

Only then, I think, would come Birchoverham Market and the second cassette yard.  I may have moved or be dead before then, but I don't see why I should not allow for the alternative possibility!

 

Think of it like this; I will still be looking to build the original BLT to cassette format. I have retained the ambition to represent Achingham, allowing for a BLT to Cassette / BLT to BLT format.

 

What I have added to the original plan is a major third station and second cassette yard.  That is ambitious, but should allow me the chance to run pretty much all the WNR traffic at some place on the layout. That can, and no doubt will, wait.  

 

In effect, I am building three interconnectable layouts, one, by one. If I never go beyond CA, I'll do something else with the space; I need the under-baseboard storage the scheme would give me, for one thing.  But I hope I will. 

 

Also, I will only build extensions as and when I can afford professional assistance, such as bespoke baseboards from the likes of White Rose.  The more help I can get with the aspects of the hobby I find the most arduous or, at least, least rewarding, the more I will do, so as to be able to concentrate what time I do have on what are, for me, the most pleasurable aspects. 

 

One advantage of the shed plan, however, is that I could continue work on CA without starting the shed project. I could do some work on Achingham, too, that could anticipate a subsequent change of location.  In other word, I could have getting on for two-thirds of the shed's intended contents complete before I even take spade to turf, so I could build a shed with just the Birchoverham Market boards left to build. That is still a lot of layout, but the risk of over-ambition is lessened by that point.   

 

In the meantime, I know I have space for a shed that will take the whole scheme and, if I move, I can try to find somewhere that would accommodate same. Otherwise, I can just not move!

 

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

As I think I mentioned, however, the shed is by way of setting some limit to that ambition, and leaving room to expand. 

 

24 minutes ago, Northroader said:

it’s a constant struggle stopping junk accumulating, 

 

Allow for the Accumulation of Stuff.

[Edwardian]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Allow for the Accumulation of Stuff.

 

And Beware of the Curse of Marie Kondo;  railway modellers never know when they might need that kit that has languished in its box untouched for 30 years, or that MRJ article that showed you how to do the thing that, decades later, you now  wish to attempt. 

[Hroth]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Allow for the Accumulation of Stuff.

Its all very well allowing for the Accumulation of Stuff, but you need to consider timescales for the rate of accretion and sedimentation.  I've just been dealing (over the past year) with the results of 50 years of Accumulation of Stuff, its not a pretty sight and its hard work to boot.

 

Quote

And Beware of the Curse of Marie Kondo;  railway modellers never know when they might need that kit that has languished in its box untouched for 30 years, or that MRJ article that showed you how to do the thing that, decades later, you now  wish to attempt. 

 

Thats been my problem.  Chuck stuff out, yes.  But consider if the chucked items may be useful later, and how much they would cost to replace. You end up with three heaps. Save, Ummm and Chuck...

 

And then there's books, another triage exercise.  Why does mere paper weigh so much?

 

A shed is a good idea.  I've been thinking of one too.

 

Unless you're skilled at building and want to have it sooner than later, then the only way is to buy prefabricated, and factor in a charge for assembly on site, unless you can rope in some fit pals to wrestle the shed into place. Of course, food and a case of beer will then be needed to be considered!  Foundation-wise you'll have to do your best at levelling., then either a plastic grid affair filled with pea gravel, or a layer of sand and cement (don't need to mix it with water, do it dry and the damp in the ground will set it) and then paving slabs.  We had a fence with the posts in sockets driven into the ground, despite treated timber and wood-preservative sloshed all around when fitting the posts, the rate at which the wood rotted wasn't funny.  So back to the grid/slabs.  Once settled down, yout baulks go on that and then your shed floor and so on.

 

The shed itself. Look for one constructed with tongue and groove sides, shiplap is an invitation for penetrating rain. Also take your time in lining it out with insulation  and exterior ply, don't use MDF...

 

I expect you will get a qualified bloke to lay on the electrickery and install a decent fuse box. And sockets. And lights.

 

And I'm sure that you'll check the local planning regs for maximum permissable size, etc.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Hroth

[Regularity]

If you want gravel, then don’t use it: or at least, not PRA gravel.

 

What you need instead is ¾” or so broken stone, tamped down with a whacked plate, surrounded by sturdy timbers (old sleepers are ideal) pegged in place with 2’ long lengths of steel rebar, driven into the ground. You need a weed proof membrane, and for the stone to ideally come 1’ outside of the shed, I.e. for your suggested shed, 28’x16’ of stone - add 6” all round for the sleepers, and even less garden!

 

ideally, the sleepers will be let into the ground, with maybe a little showing over the top, and the whole area excavated. So, you need a hole 27’x17’, by 6”-8” deep. Then you need 28’x16’x8”, all divided by 27, of cubic yards of compacted stone. (About 11 cubic yards.)

 

Don’t forget to install the conduit for any electrical supply first, so that it can go under the perimeter and then up through the floor.

 

 I am currently “between jobs” (genuinely have something to go to) so have had time to research this!

 

An alternative is to use plastic interlocking grids on top of weed proof membrane, in which case you fill the holes with gravel as the purpose of it then is drainage and not drainage and support.

 

 

[Edwardian]

32 minutes ago, Regularity said:

If you want gravel, then don’t use it: or at least, not PRA gravel.

 

What you need instead is ¾” or so broken stone, tamped down with a whacked plate, surrounded by sturdy timbers (old sleepers are ideal) pegged in place with 2’ long lengths of steel rebar, driven into the ground. You need a weed proof membrane, and for the stone to ideally come 1’ outside of the shed, I.e. for your suggested shed, 28’x16’ of stone - add 6” all round for the sleepers, and even less garden!

 

ideally, the sleepers will be let into the ground, with maybe a little showing over the top, and the whole area excavated. So, you need a hole 27’x17’, by 6”-8” deep. Then you need 28’x16’x8”, all divided by 27, of cubic yards of compacted stone. (About 11 cubic yards.)

 

Don’t forget to install the conduit for any electrical supply first, so that it can go under the perimeter and then up through the floor.

 

 I am currently “between jobs” (genuinely have something to go to) so have had time to research this!

 

An alternative is to use plastic interlocking grids on top of weed proof membrane, in which case you fill the holes with gravel as the purpose of it then is drainage and not drainage and support.

 

 

 

Sounds like you've talked yourself into a job, there.

[Nearholmer]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The post-in-the-ground method runs the risk of rot

Which is why concrete spur-posts are the better option. Countless grain stores have stood on staddles for centuries withoutsuffering wood rot.

You can even make your own staddles, if you don’t like spur-posts, by casting them in concrete in a plastic bucket, using scrunched-up chicken-wire as reinforcement.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Perfect for Castle Aching, Kevin, save for the thatch (home to too many spiders, who would visit the layout). 

[webbcompound]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Which is why concrete spur-posts are the better option. Countless grain stores have stood on staddles for centuries withoutsuffering wood rot.

You can even make your own staddles, if you don’t like spur-posts, by casting them in concrete in a plastic bucket, using scrunched-up chicken-wire as reinforcement.

and if they are the correct shape they will stop rats eating your layout...

[DonB]

Pests in Sheds.... A cycling friend had a H-D 3-rail layout in his 4x8 shed, but found eventually that he needed an extra loop of track, so added a sort of tunnel on to the end of the shed outside. He claimed  to have the largest colony of seven-legged spiders in the UK !

 

I have a 6x4 garden shed recently replacing one which was chewed into by Rats from next-door's chicken area. They tunnelled under the concrete upright slabs supporting the wooden fence . there were only garden tools in the shed, no vegetation or other junk which the rats could use or eat.. The council kindly sent a Rodent operative who got rid of them! Cost me £19 for the visit.

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Allow for the Accumulation of Stuff.

Don't underestimate the value of this to railway modellers though. When we moved into our present (and, hopefully, final) home, a big part of the justification for building a larger railway room (council considers it to be a garage) was to deal with the Accumulation of Stuff. Large quantities of said Stuff are now stored underneath the baseboards, out of the way but easily accessible. This amount of Stuff demanded a lot of space, which therefore resulted in a large railway room with a large model railway in it. Happiness and contentment for all.