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On the subject of the height of people, look on the footplate of this photo. There obviously weren't any height restrictions on railway employees, at least in Devon! Does anyone make suitable figures, or is major surgery required?

 

If you use a figure from a smaller scale it would lack the girth and the head would be too small. Drastic surgery is probably the best answer. There is someone (Modelleu?) who will scan a figure and 3d print them to scale, but knowing a suitable subject might be difficult.

Don

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John, that is a wonderful photograph, in every way.  What a change it would be to see an 'Ashburton' layout in Edwardian times, with a 517, a rake of 4-wheelers, and a turntable!

Edwardian? Far too modern. If I build Ashburton, it will be broad gauge. The kick back siding wasn't there originally, so everyone who sees it will criticise the layout because I've omitted it, so I can wind them up about it, and it will be easier to operate! In fact I'm practising making the station building and train shed with the one I'm currently building for "Small, Broad & Totally Pointless". I'm more likely to build a cross between Ashburton, Moretonhampstead and various other similar stations though, with the most interesting features from different places.

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Well, yes, John, Broad Gauge Ashburton would be even more of a change, and so much the better, therefore?

 

Of course, a model of the South Devon Railway operating under the Atmospheric system would really impress me! 

 

However, such projects would be 'historic' railway modelling, as I am currently inhabiting Edwardian Norfolk and attempting to capture the contemporary scene!

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Of course, a model of the South Devon Railway operating under the Atmospheric system would really impress me!

And probably work better than the real thing!!

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Could not the 517 also aid scaling?

post-25673-0-03701900-1454843986_thumb.jpg

Maristow (7mm) is standard gauge GW laid on baulk.

post-25673-0-03701900-1454843986_thumb.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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Does anyone know the length of a standard GWR shunting pole (assuming there was a standard length?

It is one of quite a few items on the photo which could be used to aid scaling.

 

When Ashburton was narrowed, it remained on bualk road, and did so for many years. It would make a nice change to see a standard gauge layout modelled thus - would be a requirement for an Edwardian layout.

This advert might help although I suspect that the quoted length refers to the timber part and not the total length including the hook.  It's rather a long time since I last used one but I reckon the overall length would be somewhere in the region of 5ft 10"- 6ft.  Effectively the hook needs to be at vehicle centreline with the user standing with his body at  almost a right angle to the vehicle and clear of it.

 

http://richardcarterltd.co.uk/product/66-hickory-shunt-pole/

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It's nice to see the GWR sneaking into a Norfolk layout, I suppose through running would be a bit too much to hope for. Still, you're in for a colourful time if you mix the home road scheme (?) with MGN yellow and GER blue. I do hope there's no "connotations" in the name Birchoverham, it sounds like a particularly grim boarding school?

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Well, stab me vitals! I look away for 30 seconds and all this work has occurred. Very much like the talk about people - they are a real fixation for me on my layout, as there is really no excuse for rubbish figures when you look at the lovely work wargamers do. I know some of the figures are out of proportion, but we accept 16.5 mm gauge and shorter distances between things. The important thing is for them to look alive - people are something we are genetically programmed to focus on, so unconvincing ones really affect a layout - especially small ones. Yours are looking great - I tend not to worry about height too much, unless they are giants! what I do look for is clear features and some hint of character- even if that means a more emphasised face.

 

yours are looking great - and will suit those lovely buildings very well

 

looking forward to updates!

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Does anyone know the length of a standard GWR shunting pole (assuming there was a standard length?

It is one of quite a few items on the photo which could be used to aid scaling.

 

When Ashburton was narrowed, it remained on bualk road, and did so for many years. It would make a nice change to see a standard gauge layout modelled thus - would be a requirement for an Edwardian layout.

 

Ian Smiths Modbury in 2mm feature on the track in latest MRJ but more info on here. Bob Harper built Maristow in 7mm with Bulk road a great layout to operate.

Actually we are getting a bit offtopic here. Apologies.

Don

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Well, Northroader, I had much the same thought as you; as any MGN visitors would be ochre yellow and any GE Prussian blue, yes, I had thought to make the WNR locomotive livery green.  All in due course, of course.

 

Birchoverham was merely a product of my habit of combining real Norfolk place-names in order to produce fictitious ones, in this case Bircham and Burnham Overy Staithe.  Nothing sinister intended!

 

As I live quite near to the real Dotheboys Hall, I should,perhaps, have been more mindful of the possible associations!

 

Don't worry about the digressions, Folks, they tend to be either informative or entertaining, or, most usually, both.

 

A like the idea of a shunter's pole for use in a "good yard", but what did they use in the bad?

Edited by Edwardian
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I like the way this is going, but shouldn't Birchover by the sea be Birchover next the sea? I have a similar story for my layout. I have called my station Cley on sea as the LNER called Wells station 'on' rather than next

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Yes, Russ, it should, as in Wells next the Sea, and I had intended it to be so.  As I typed, on a whim, I thought "over by the sea" is one of those fantastically weak jokes that I am seemingly unable to resist.  I will correct my mistake in deference to you!

 

So, so far, we know that the WNR serves:

 

Castle Aching

Flitching

Bircham Market

Birchoverham Staithe

Birchoverham next the Sea

 

The Directors had planned an extension towards the Cambridgeshire border, but East Lynn had already been taken ("Gone! Gone! And never called me 'Mother'!")

 

I am going to leave Cley and Stiffkey well alone, as pronunciation issues would make any word play too difficult for my un-agile mind!  (any way, no Dirty Rectors on my patch!) 

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Cheers, are you going to represent anything of the proposed extension on the layout or did it never leave the drawing board?

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Well, I reckon that I have my work cut out as it is, but, I have ideas concerning several of the other stations, plus a locomotive and carriage works; the WNR's own little Melton Constable.

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Fred Blackman now lives in North Norfolk. His Mallard kit of a 517 would be ideal for the Ashburton Layout you are going to have to build one day!

 

Perhaps if you build a number of layouts featuring the various stations of the WNR you could do a Richard  Chown and link them together hire a church hall for the day and invite those near enough to come and run it.

Don

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Fred Blackman now lives in North Norfolk. His Mallard kit of a 517 would be ideal for the Ashburton Layout you are going to have to build one day!

The Bishops Castle Railway bought one from the GWR, so maybe one could have ended up in Norfolk too.

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Actually, I was thinking of a 'version' of the 517.  Perfect as a passenger tank for a branch, and just the sort of thing that a GER-sponsored 'light' railway might run.  I am thinking of Johnson's GER T7 0-4-2T, or, rather, the very similar Neilson-built version for the Colne Valley. 

 

If anyone can lay their hands on a drawing of either the T7 or CV&HR No.1, I'd be most grateful.  At the moment it looks like my best plan is to work off a drawings of the GER No.134 Class 0-4-4T and modify them as necessary.

 

But, it may be a while before I tackle motive power, I suspect, as I am currently drowning in a sea of knapped flint and pan-tiles.   

 

Don - I suspect you may be onto something with the linked-layouts plan!  Something for the future. 

Edited by Edwardian
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The linked smaller layouts thing, sticking to a common theme, seems to be one of the ways to create a "great".

 

I've always had immense difficulty sticking to a theme (or a scale, or a gauge, come to that!) for more than about three or four years at a time, but one of my pals has managed to stick with a North Devon 2ft gauge, expanded from Lynton & Barnstaple, theme, for c25 years, and, as result, has always had several modules, of very high quality, running at any time. He's probably lost a lot less money in flogging-off finished and half-finished jobs than I have too!

 

K

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Could you adopt the American modular layout approach? They use DCC but that would not be the only way to wire modules. The main problem is getting the joints between modules built by different people to match up visually. But another variant would be modules with plain bridging pieces. This would work equally well for a series of modules built by one person and a set brought together by a group of friends.

 

Jonathan

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I'm currently trying to finish all my half-finished jobs, so I have a minimal amount to flog off. The trouble is that ideas for new projects keep entering my brain, often thanks to things I see on RMweb!

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On the T7 drawing issue, I've had difficulty joining the dots, but I think you can find this in the Oakwood Press series, edited by Mike Sharman. Portfolio series, volume 3, "the G.E.R, part 1", which was the series of 7mm drawings done extracted from old Locomotive Magazine blocks. Plan 24 is of no. 84, 0-4-2T, built 1873, plan 25 is no.16, 0-4-2T, built 1875. The first shows original Johnstone state, the other is a bit after. Just side elevation, no end. They do look quite delectable.

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Thanks, I shall have to see if I can track this volume down when funds permit. 

 

I note that both drawings are of the larger, 750 gal, tank version.  The first 3, of 1871, were 500 gal.  Now the Colne Valley locomotive of 1876 is given as 850 gal on the LNER Encyclopedia (www.lner.info), but I wonder if that figure reflects the extra tanks fitted (1881-1911).  Date-wise, she is closer to the larger tank T7s and I cannot think why they would go back to smaller tanks.

 

I had thought to build a Colne Valley type, but without the additional tanks.  I had thought to combine the Johnson dome and safety valve bonnet with a later GER stovepipe chimney, to reflect a visit to the works (as you see Colne Valley No.1 below in the picture dated 1901), and either a cab or half-cab.  If I assume that the West Norfolk's Neilson, unlike her Essex cousin, was not modified with front tanks, then I can include wing-plates to the front of the smoke-box.  I love wing-plates; nothing says "Victorian Locomotive" quite like wing-plates.

post-25673-0-20512700-1454943684.jpg

Below, GER T7 no. 82 (1871) in a works photograph (small tank), T7 no. 85 (1873) (large tank) - I wouldn't be surprised if none of them received the Wordsell Prussian Blue livery as they were all gone by 1894, and I guess the original 3 at least would have worn Johnson 'Midland' green to begin with, while those built under Adam would have been black - and Colne Valley No.1 (1876) with the extra front tanks.      

post-25673-0-21897700-1454943641.jpgpost-25673-0-23996700-1454943651.jpg

post-25673-0-21897700-1454943641.jpg

post-25673-0-23996700-1454943651.jpg

post-25673-0-20512700-1454943684.jpg

Edited by Edwardian
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Looking at the photos, first drawing referred to is the same as the small photo, second one doesn't match any of photo details, but as it dates to after Adams took over, it's got small dome with s.v's and stovepipe chimney. Out of interest, I scaled some sizes off the drawing: GER T7: wheelbase, 6'9"+7'8", drivers 5'3", trailers 3'8", length over buffers 27'6"

GWR 48xx/14xx. 7'4"+8'2". 5'2". 3'8". 29'11"

One of your photos shows a cab, the drawings show open air with spectacle plate. I'm not familiar with a GWR OO model how far the works stick into the cab, but I think you'll agree you could manage a "chop" job without too much trouble?

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Yes, as I am a mere basher and bodger, I had thought to use the Hornby 14XX.  The old Airfix original has a motor that protrudes into the cab.  The Hornby is more discrete.

 

Apropos cabs, yes, the T7s were built without cabs.  I have read that cabs were added later, but that no photographic record exists.  This is not a problem for me as the West Norfolk's locomotive is supposedly built for the line; it is a 'cousin' of the CV&HR and would resemble that over a T7.  I would probably want to have a cab like the CV&HR locomotive.  The West Norfolk engine would not have the front tanks added. 

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