4mm scale brickwork

[Spitfire2865]

Hello all.

A quick search around here and online, and Im left with a bit of headscratching.

Bricks are such a varying subject, so what does the modeling community consider as the size of a 4mm scale brick for something like English Bond style brickwork.

By my calculations, Im getting something about 3x 1x .5 mm but that just seems a little small. Or maybe Im just not thinking small enough.

 

My idea is to use thin card cut to the size and glue them on one by one. Yes Im crazy, but Im also cheap, and using card is cheaper than buying brickpaper.

[BG John]

Have you looked at Scalescenes brick papers? You only have to buy it once, and it comes with a variety of lintels and other matching bits and pieces. Then you just have the cost of printing however much you need. It would save a lot of work, and strain on your eyesight! If that's too much, you can make your own for nothing. Or if you can't be bothered to make it, download this one.

[HLT 0109]

Bricks (in imperial measurements) are approximately 9" long by 4.5" wide x 3" high (including space for mortar) so in 4mm scale, that would be 3mm x 1.5mm x 1mm.  They always look too small to me too when printed in paper or plastic but you have to trust that it is correct.  Anything significantly bigger would look wrong on a completed building, particularly when photographed.  However, if you really want them bigger, then the answer is as BG John suggests, as you can adjust the scale on your computer.

[Spitfire2865]

Have you looked at Scalescenes brick papers? You only have to buy it once, and it comes with a variety of lintels and other matching bits and pieces. Then you just have the cost of printing however much you need. It would save a lot of work, and strain on your eyesight! If that's too much, you can make your own for nothing. Or if you can't be bothered to make it, download this one.

I unfortunately dont have access to a good and reliable colour printer. So printing brickwork is an impossibility at the time.

Probably should have mentioned that.

 

 

Bricks (in imperial measurements) are approximately 9" long by 4.5" wide x 3" high (including space for mortar) so in 4mm scale, that would be 3mm x 1.5mm x 1mm. They always look too small to me too when printed in paper or plastic but you have to trust that it is correct. Anything significantly bigger would look wrong on a completed building, particularly when photographed. However, if you really want them bigger, then the answer is as BG John suggests, as you can adjust the scale on your computer.

Thanks. They do seem small, but overall understandable considering the scale.

 

I can work very monotonously so I should be able to relatively quickly cut thousands upon thousands of card bricks.

Sticking them on and painting them on the other hand...will make for a very interesting day of work.

[HeeleyBridge]

Allan Downes had a fetish at one time for 'computer chads' which were the waste product from programming punched cards. I think that 4mm scale bricklaying with those is what drove him to turn to 7mm scale.

[sharris]

I unfortunately dont have access to a good and reliable colour printer. So printing brickwork is an impossibility at the time.

Probably should have mentioned that.

 

 

Thanks. They do seem small, but overall understandable considering the scale.

 

I can work very monotonously so I should be able to relatively quickly cut thousands upon thousands of card bricks.

Sticking them on and painting them on the other hand...will make for a very interesting day of work.

 

Don't forget, if you're making English Bond (or Flemish) you'll need to make a lot of 1.5x1mm rectangles for the headers as well, and quarter bricks (0.75x1mm) for the corners and window/door surrounds (in fact, fractionally under these dimensions as they, as HLT0109 pointed out, nominally include the mortar).

[Spitfire2865]

Allan Downes had a fetish at one time for 'computer chads' which were the waste product from programming punched cards. I think that 4mm scale bricklaying with those is what drove him to turn to 7mm scale.

I started one row, and it didnt look right. Im not going to do that afterall.

 

I now have to find someone with a colour printer.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I draw it up on the computer and laser cut in Rowmark, card etc this way you can get the correct brick bond with all the quarter bricks round corners, doors and windows.

 

Here is some I did.

[Spitfire2865]

I draw it up on the computer and laser cut in Rowmark, card etc this way you can get the correct brick bond with all the quarter bricks round corners, doors and windows.

 

Here is some I did.

That looks great, how do you do it?

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I draw the building up using ProdCAD smart a free CAD software you can download. use layers to draw lines you need to cut all the way through and other layers to part cut through for the brick courses. It is then exported as a DXF file and sent to the laser cutter.

 

It does mean you can get all the brick paten correct. I either mitre the edges of the building or interlock them using the half bricks as teeth, but you need to ensure the sheet thickness match the size if a half brick.

[PaulWarb]

Hi

 

I take it you have seen the Slaters Plastikard range   https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/embossed.php      You can see photos of the products on the websites of several shops - just Google it. 

 

Yes you will incur some cost but the sheets are really not that expensive - it will save you hours of time too - and unless you are very skilled give a better job too.  You may be able to pick up some cheap sheets on ebay.

 

Just a thought

[Nick Holliday]

I draw it up on the computer and laser cut in Rowmark, card etc this way you can get the correct brick bond with all the quarter bricks round corners, doors and windows.

 

Here is some I did.

As Spitfire says, it looks good, but how much does a building like that cost to have cut, if you don't own your own laser cutter?

[David Bigcheeseplant]

 

I can't remember how much I paid when I got York Model Making to laser cut the parts for this engine shed and before our club brought its own laser cutter, but I think it was around £100, hence why we invested in our own machine. I am sure there are a few places that will cut stuff for you if you look into it.

 

To my mind this way does produce the best results, some of our club members have taken a photo of some stone work turned it into a bitmap and used that to produce engraved stonework.

[David C]

Beware of Slaters - and indeed, Wills brickwork. I haven't used either for very many years for the simple reason that the vertical courses are just not vertical. At corners, doors and windows etc., the result is a lot of very odd sized bricks, usually either diminishing or increasing in size depending on whether the angle between the vertical and horizontal courses is greater or less than 90 degrees. Looking at photos of layouts, a lot of modellers don't worry too much about this - or indeed, whether the horizontal courses even align at corners - but once you notice it, your eye will get drawn to it all the time - at least, in my experience!

 

If you do go down the Slaters route, take a set square to the model shop with you - you'll need it. Alternatively, model an area where stone is the predominant material  (see my own effort Woodstowe in Layout Topics where I've used both Wills plastic and DAS air drying clay for structures) or one where most buildings are covered in plaster or stucco (e g Europe)!

 

David C

 

[Spitfire2865]

Ive actually just placed an order for a few sheets of Slaters stuff. The building Im working on, most of the brickwork will be only viewable from the back, but the inside of the building has it too, so Im not too fussed if its slightly off. (Its a corner of a building where the front edge of the board shows the inside of the building.

 

Now to go about building it...

[Guest 40-something]

Beware of Slaters - and indeed, Wills brickwork. I haven't used either for very many years for the simple reason that the vertical courses are just not vertical. At corners, doors and windows etc., the result is a lot of very odd sized bricks, usually either diminishing or increasing in size depending on whether the angle between the vertical and horizontal courses is greater or less than 90 degrees. Looking at photos of layouts, a lot of modellers don't worry too much about this - or indeed, whether the horizontal courses even align at corners - but once you notice it, your eye will get drawn to it all the time - at least, in my experience!

 

If you do go down the Slaters route, take a set square to the model shop with you - you'll need it. Alternatively, model an area where stone is the predominant material  (see my own effort Woodstowe in Layout Topics where I've used both Wills plastic and DAS air drying clay for structures) or one where most buildings are covered in plaster or stucco (e g Europe)!

 

David C

Before using Slaters sheets I trim the edges off square, I dont think I've had a problem with the courses being off-square away from the edges, I've just checked the 9 sheets I have here and all are fine

 

I'll definitely check each new sheet I buy though

[corneliuslundie]

Back to the OP's original question, it depends. Over history bricks have varied quite a lot in size, from quite a bit thinner than 4 inches including mortar to quite a bit more. And mortar fashions have changed too, thin or thick and how it is dressed (the latter a bit OTT in 4mm). This may be a bit academic for the OP but if you are trying to use brickwork to represent a particular time and place then you need to do a bit of research.

 

Apart from fashions and different local styles, one reason for differences is that different clays can shrink by different amounts when fired.

 

And of course things started to change once the railways started moving bricks around, with more standardisation. Even then it took some time for areas without suitable clay to start using bricks to any great extent.

 

Then there is brick colour, which varies through time and place. London Brick Co products are quite widely spread but there was a lot of variation, even before architects started to like specifying the colour of bricks. The problem is that old photos are not in colour, so you have to look at older buildings still standing.

 

Then of course there is the GWR's penchant for Ruabon bricks - not just big but also hard and quite shiny dark red.

 

Amusingly, as fashions changed brick use changed too. You can find two buildings in a town one with a stone facade and brick round the back and the other the opposite way round. And what bigger contrast than Kings Cross and St Pancras.

 

Just like trying to get your model of a particular loco accurate it needs research using photos.

 

Please don't take me as an expert on brickwork; this is just what I have noticed.

 

Jonathan

[Perthshireman]

I can't remember how much I paid when I got York Model Making to laser cut the parts for this engine shed and before our club brought its own laser cutter, but I think it was around £100, hence why we invested in our own machine. I am sure there are a few places that will cut stuff for you if you look into it.To my mind this way does produce the best results, some of our club members have taken a photo of some stone work turned it into a bitmap and used that to produce engraved stonework.

 

Hi David,

 

Can I ask which machine your club bought, and does it do everything that you require or expected of it?

 

Ian

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Hi Ian

We brought a laser cutter from HPC in Halifax it was around £3000 at the time, and yes it does everything we need it for and more. We could have got a cheeper machine but wanted something at least A3 in size.

David

[Perthshireman]

Hi Ian

We brought a laser cutter from HPC in Halifax it was around £3000 at the time, and yes it does everything we need it for and more. We could have got a cheeper machine but wanted something at least A3 in size.

David

David,

 

Thanks for the info. Clearly not an impulse buy! For personal use something smaller and cheaper might be worth considering, but perhaps the bigger machine could be made to earn its keep, one way or another. Something to think about for the future.

 

Ian

[David Bigcheeseplant]

We did look in to various laser cutters, but as a club purchase, had to ensure we would not need to replace or upgrade for a few years time. There are cheaper machines but with HPC you get good back up and a days training if you collect from them.

 

David