RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2016 Surely if you have specified a train length of say 60" the route will only be cleared when TC thinks the 60" has cleared the section? As yet none of my wagons and few of my coaches have any sort of detection and usually there is no problem unless the train stalls for any reason before it's normal stopping point and then TC thinks it has completed the move with vehicles still in the previous section. Keith If you have a junction where one line crosses the other it makes more sense for the crossing to be a track circuit in itself so it can form part of either route. A train routed across such a junction will give indications Occupied - Clear - Occupied if it only has detection at front and rear. This can lead to the opposing route being cleared while the train is crossing the junction. This is a section of Ravensclyffe signalling software showing a route set for a 36 wagon MGR train to enter the reception roads. In order to do so the train has to cross the Up Main and the whole movement will be at 15MPH or less. The route consists of multiple track circuits around each section of pointwork but the critical one is the diamond across the Up Main. The train movement into the reception takes a significant amount of time and if only the loco and last wagon were detectable then the Automatic Route Setting built in to the software could potentially clear a train along the Up Main while the coal train is still crossing from the Down. Note that the loco will be in the reception roads clear of the shunt signal while the last wagon is still not past the level crossing at the top of the image. Flank protection is built into the routes as well, if a route along the Up Main is called the points will change to protect the diamond leading to the coal train derailing... Been there, done that! Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2016 Dagworth, on 15 Feb 2016 - 14:29, said:Dagworth, on 15 Feb 2016 - 14:29, said:Dagworth, on 15 Feb 2016 - 14:29, said: If you have a junction where one line crosses the other it makes more sense for the crossing to be a track circuit in itself so it can form part of either route. A train routed across such a junction will give indications Occupied - Clear - Occupied if it only has detection at front and rear. This can lead to the opposing route being cleared while the train is crossing the junction. southjunc.png This is a section of Ravensclyffe signalling software showing a route set for a 36 wagon MGR train to enter the reception roads. In order to do so the train has to cross the Up Main and the whole movement will be at 15MPH or less. The route consists of multiple track circuits around each section of pointwork but the critical one is the diamond across the Up Main. The train movement into the reception takes a significant amount of time and if only the loco and last wagon were detectable then the Automatic Route Setting built in to the software could potentially clear a train along the Up Main while the coal train is still crossing from the Down. Note that the loco will be in the reception roads clear of the shunt signal while the last wagon is still not past the level crossing at the top of the image. Flank protection is built into the routes as well, if a route along the Up Main is called the points will change to protect the diamond leading to the coal train derailing... Been there, done that! Andi However, that's not how TC works - it's designed to take this into account internally. TC generates routes which consist of all possible pairs of blocks. For example, you have block A, followed by one or more sets of turnouts/crossings and then block B. When TC schedules a train to travel the A-B route, it sets up all the turnouts and then locks them internally. The train then leaves block A and only when TC has detected the train in block B, and calculated that it has reached the stop marker in B, does it release block A and all the turnouts in between. Doesn't matter how long this takes. The only requirement on you is to ensure that the train length is not longer than the length of block B, but there are ways you can round this too in TC. I don't have resistor wheelsets on any of my stock and all TC's automation works absolutely fine. None of my turnouts or crossings have occupancy detection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2016 However, that's not how TC works - it's designed to take this into account internally. TC generates routes which consist of all possible pairs of blocks. For example, you have block A, followed by one or more sets of turnouts/crossings and then block B. When TC schedules a train to travel the A-B route, it sets up all the turnouts and then locks them internally. The train then leaves block A and only when TC has detected the train in block B, and calculated that it has reached the stop marker in B, does it release block A and all the turnouts in between. Doesn't matter how long this takes. The only requirement on you is to ensure that the train length is not longer than the length of block B, but there are ways you can round this too in TC. I don't have resistor wheelsets on any of my stock and all TC's automation works absolutely fine. None of my turnouts or crossings have occupancy detection. I have no idea what the TC you refer to is, to me TC means Track Circuit. The software I use doesn't work like that, it works on actual detection of entire trains on entire lengths of track, not stop markers etc. From your description it sounds as though it would not detect a divided train, I think the software I am using is probably safer! Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2016 I had assumed TC referred to Traincontroller by RR&Co..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 In RR&Co 5.0C, it certainly can unlock under a train, I've had it do it to me a few times. Mind, I suspect my blocks are too long, and I at that point didn't have a lot of delay set on clearing sections. If the train stalls, which will happen on occasion, then it can result in a rear end collision or a sideswipe event if on a diamond/ect. The way Andi does it properly protects the train, and is based on real life where each waggon is detected, and until all of them have cleared, the block is still detected occupied rather than calculated occupied. It is overall, a better way to work, but costs in resistive paint & time. James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Friedman Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Like RFS and James I use Train Controller software and what RFS says is true: If none of your trains are longer than your shortest block then resistive wheel sets are not strictly required, especially as you can programme RR&co to reserve (lock) one or more blocks before and after the detected block the train is actually travelling in. However If by dodgy design your trains are longer than some of your blocks (it is possible on my layout for a long train to bridge three blocks , (strictly verboten in RR&co's rulebook ), but hey, I am where I am) then having resistive something on at least the last vehicle of a train is a good crash preventer. It also means if part of a train becomes uncoupled it will be detected and RR&co will stop any other train from entering the block. Using acronyms is the curse of information technology (IT?) and related electronics. I didn't realise I once owned a Rover 2000 with track circuits. I guess you live and learn . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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