Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[Mike Storey]

If you want to learn how to sell to hobbyists at a profit, just go visit Gaugemaster. Outstanding, but by no means cheap. My (now) 10 year old nephew, and several of his friends and at least one other uncle, have been inexorably drawn into serious railway modelling following the first of many subsequent visits to their "open days" and then just to their shop, and the help pages on their website. His dad would much rather spend the money on many other things...... They are as good as any drug pushers in the south east!

[Coryton]

Mean while in the continental toy shops, Marklin are providing cheap battery powered toys, roughly imitating actual prototypes that will run on HO track:

 

In simple terms Jouef et al cannot compete, but maybe they should join the club or allow Markilin to sell in the UK these items under Hornby's brand name with a Hornby as distributer.

 

Photo taken yesterday in a toy shop near Paris, and it seems that kids can move to model railways later on easily unlike the Hornby system.

 

 

I'm a big fan of these. They've been available in the UK for a couple of years (at least) via Amazon. The track is plastic clip-together - just like (and compatible with) regular integral ballast Marklin track, but with plastic rails to cut costs. The trains are extremely robust, and look (somewhat) like continental prototypes. The remote control includes lights and sounds. Young children can be left with them on their own without damaging themselves or the trains, and can lay track all over the carpet without getting fluff in the mechanisms.

 

And they run (as the slightly sexist Marklin catalogue puts it) on dad's H0 model railway.

 

I think Hornby would do extremely well to make something like them with a more British look - even if only the livery.

 

(Marklin do or did one in Eurostar livery, mind).

 

If you want to learn how to sell to hobbyists at a profit, just go visit Gaugemaster. Outstanding, but by no means cheap. My (now) 10 year old nephew, and several of his friends and at least one other uncle, have been inexorably drawn into serious railway modelling following the first of many subsequent visits to their "open days" and then just to their shop, and the help pages on their website. His dad would much rather spend the money on many other things...... They are as good as any drug pushers in the south east!

 

And they stock an increasing range of the Marklin battery powered train sets - there's been one on display for a while.

[jjb1970]

If you want to learn how to sell to hobbyists at a profit, just go visit Gaugemaster. Outstanding, but by no means cheap. My (now) 10 year old nephew, and several of his friends and at least one other uncle, have been inexorably drawn into serious railway modelling following the first of many subsequent visits to their "open days" and then just to their shop, and the help pages on their website. His dad would much rather spend the money on many other things...... They are as good as any drug pushers in the south east!

I think Gaugemaster demonstrate that there is still a market which values service above discounting. As you say, they are seldom especially cheap (although they do have some bargains) but they're very knowledgeable, offer great customer support and a fabulous range of products.

[jjb1970]

I still think Hornby are missing a trick in not really promoting their international ranges in the UK. They do make some superb models for the Europe and North American markets and the prices of these models are competitive with equivalent models from other producers. There is still a market for North American and European HO models over here and there are still a few retailers making the effort to stock a good range of such models, such as Gaugemaster, the Hobby Shop, Scog Rail, C&M Models, Winco and Kernow amongst others. And of course Contikits which has been around since before I developed an interest in HO in the mid-late 80’s is still there. I know that in these days of on-line ordering it is no more difficult to buy from overseas as it is from a shop nearer home but nevertheless a market does exist for these models and Hornby could probably increase sales for products which seem to be discounted to a lesser degree than is normal for OO models. If anything, rising OO prices may make HO more attractive and lead to a renaissance in overseas modelling, I know I’ve returned primarily to HO over the last year or so. Hornby don’t really receive any recognition here for their international ranges, yet they produce some outstanding models which seem to be very well received in their intended markets. I’ve been going through an Italian phase for a while and the Rivarossi and Lima Expert models are superbly done and at their best are the equal of any HO RTR I’ve seen. Hornby have made a very half-hearted effort to market a small selection of these models on their UK website but it baffles me why they don’t make a more serious effort. Their product is as good as Roco/Fleischmann yet with nothing like the UK presence despite being part of the only model railway producer in the country which is recognised outside of the hobby. I find that to be a bit baffling really.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I reckon either aHST or Pendolino version would sell like the proverbial hot cakes.

Yes, it would sell. I have more doubts about whether it leads on to an interest in modelling. The problem with all fixed-formation trains is that they have almost zero play value. A locomotive and freight trucks (flats or opens) has far more potential.

[Mike at C&M]

there are still a few retailers making the effort to stock a good range of such models, such as Gaugemaster, the Hobby Shop, Scog Rail, C&M Models, Winco and Kernow amongst others. 

  I am afraid you have to remove C&M Models from this list.

 

  Hornby have been unable and unwilling to supply the UK market since they wrenched back the distribution of these ranges from OnTracks a few years ago. Tim and Fiona did an excellent job of obtaining Jouef, Rivarossi, Lima, Electrotren and Arnold by working with the various Europe-based distributors.

    I am of the belief that these Europe-based distributors have now been closed down [if anyone can confirm or deny this], so all is handled from Hornby HQ. Let us hope they are doing a better job in supplying our European counterparts.

 

  C&M have committed to stocking other ranges - Roco, ACME and LS Models - and are unlikely to look again at the Hornby International ranges whilst we build up these named ranges.

 

Mike at C&M

[jjb1970]

I am afraid you have to remove C&M Models from this list.

 

Hornby have been unable and unwilling to supply the UK market since they wrenched back the distribution of these ranges from OnTracks a few years ago. Tim and Fiona did an excellent job of obtaining Jouef, Rivarossi, Lima, Electrotren and Arnold by working with the various Europe-based distributors.

I am of the belief that these Europe-based distributors have now been closed down [if anyone can confirm or deny this], so all is handled from Hornby HQ. Let us hope they are doing a better job in supplying our European counterparts.

 

C&M have committed to stocking other ranges - Roco, ACME and LS Models - and are unlikely to look again at the Hornby International ranges whilst we build up these named ranges.

 

Mike at C&M

Apologies, I should have worded my post better. I meant that there are plenty of retailers who see a sufficient demand for HO models to make it worth their while to stock them. Yet very few sell Hornby international and so you have to use overseas sellers. Hornby shouldn't need an importer, they apparently migrated their IT systems to an ERP so they should be in a position to supply their international brands to the UK without needing to set up a new distribution system or use an importer. I find it sad as models like the Lima Expert E636 are superb.

[asmay2002]

I still think Hornby are missing a trick in not really promoting their international ranges in the UK.

 

The problem seems to me to be that the "you only model what you remember" mindset has been so entrenched at Hornby that anyone wanting to model anything other than BR 1950s/60s in the UK is generally ignored even when Hornby actually supply the products for them to do something else.  They miss enough tricks to start a magic shop.

[Ozexpatriate]

Look's like the price has gone up a bit from this email i got today.http://www.Hornby.com/us-en/

S15.now £154.99.

I clicked on your link and all the prices are in US dollars.

A clever move on Hornby's part perhaps?  (or a typo?)

The address in the link is the US website.  The Hornby website identifies where your IP address is located and directs you to different versions of the site.

 

US: http://www.Hornby.com/us-en/

UK: http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/

 

There's a little too much cleverness in the website. When I visit the UK site, all the prices have VAT removed automatically as well.  They don't say so though - it's meant to make the shopping experience quite transparent, but I personally find it confusing.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

I think Hornby would do extremely well to make something like them with a more British look - even if only the livery.

Wasn't there photographs of a similar product line from Hornby at the 2016 London and Nuremberg shows?  Someone shared pictures at one point. (EDIT: There's links in one of my posts from March earlier in this thread.)

 

Of course, whether that product line can survive whatever streamlining activity Hornby has undertaken remains to be seen.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[jjb1970]

The problem seems to me to be that the "you only model what you remember" mindset has been so entrenched at Hornby that anyone wanting to model anything other than BR 1950s/60s in the UK is generally ignored even when Hornby actually supply the products for them to do something else.  They miss enough tricks to start a magic shop.

 

I have to admit, even though I'm a Hornby fan and want them to succeed, some of their decisions and strategies seem odd. They know more about their business than I do so I'll defer to themon product development, but not making a serious effort to promote their own product when it should be relatively straight forward to distribute here is strange.

[Ozexpatriate]

The problem seems to me to be that the "you only model what you remember" mindset has been so entrenched at Hornby that anyone wanting to model anything other than BR 1950s/60s in the UK is generally ignored even when Hornby actually supply the products for them to do something else.

Based on the evidence, Hornby does not have a "you only model what you remember" mindset. If they did, there would be very limited pre-nationalization examples and tons more BR corporate blue.

 

Someone who was 10 in 1965 when BR blue was introduced, would now be 61.  While perhaps less numerous than enthusiasts of retirement age, the fifty something demographic is certainly much larger than anyone who can remember pre-nationalization. If you were 10 in 1947, you would now be 79.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[jjb1970]

On the childrens starter trains, a couple of things worth keeping in mind are that children see things differently to adults and that although children's toys may look very toy-like to an adult they do capture reality from the perspective of children. Play value is crucial, and again although most play features seem very, well toy-like, to an adult, to children it is all part of recreating the world they see around them. When designing starter products for small children like these I think producers pretty much need to work in isolation from adult train enthusiasts to avoid ending up starting to get influenced by what adult enthusiasts think children should want rather than trying to develop products that children do want. And in reality most children will grow out of these sets without ever wanting to progress onto what we might call railway modelling, that is fine if they enjoy these toys while they're children but it means that whilst some degree of compatibility with regular HO/OO is desirable it is probably not the critical aspect for success.

[BG John]

Someone who was 10 in 1965 when BR blue was introduced, would now be 61.

BR blue - Yuk. I didn't actually get interested in railways until about 2 years later, but soon discovered that green steam engines with Indian red wheels were much nicer, quickly followed by discovering that the ones that colour that ran on rails 7ft apart were even nicer!

[Clearwater]

By way of example to jjb's point above, my son decided on Saturday that his medieval kings would ride a n (old) carriage. We duly stopped the model train. The medieval King, one of which he's called King George and the other King Edward after the locos...,has, if you recall Blackadder III, a fairly heroic ' stance' to ride his horse. As luck would have it, this gait allows the King to balance neatly on the roof of a carriage rather as you might ride a miniature railway in the grounds of a stately home. We then proceeded to waive flags, blow whistles until the king's got to their station. Whatever's designed, kids will use their own imaginations to make it do something they want.

 

Picture below illustrates - apols for the awful quality!

[RJS1977]

BR blue - Yuk. I didn't actually get interested in railways until about 2 years later, but soon discovered that green steam engines with Indian red wheels were much nicer, quickly followed by discovering that the ones that colour that ran on rails 7ft apart were even nicer!

 

And as someone who was born in the BR blue era, went to school alongside the WCML from the end of the blue era to the early privatisation era, and has travelled on and observed the railways extensively since then, I think BR blue is certainly the most boring and probably one of the most awful liveries I've seen in my lifetime!

[Kelly]

By way of example to jjb's point above, my son decided on Saturday that his medieval kings would ride a n (old) carriage. We duly stopped the model train. The medieval King, one of which he's called King George and the other King Edward after the locos...,has, if you recall Blackadder III, a fairly heroic ' stance' to ride his horse. As luck would have it, this gait allows the King to balance neatly on the roof of a carriage rather as you might ride a miniature railway in the grounds of a stately home. We then proceeded to waive flags, blow whistles until the king's got to their station. Whatever's designed, kids will use their own imaginations to make it do something they want.

 

Picture below illustrates - apols for the awful quality!

 

 

Great to see such imagination and fun kids should always be encouraged in that way, letting imagination grow is what leads to some of our most gifted people and breakthroughs to some extent.

 

And as someone who was born in the BR blue era, went to school alongside the WCML from the end of the blue era to the early privatisation era, and has travelled on and observed the railways extensively since then, I think BR blue is certainly the most boring and probably one of the most awful liveries I've seen in my lifetime!

 

BR Blue, always seems rather drab. I always liked BR two-tone green vs. the blue. Though NSE is probably my favourite livery (after Malachite).

[rob D2]

And as someone who was born in the BR blue era, went to school alongside the WCML from the end of the blue era to the early privatisation era, and has travelled on and observed the railways extensively since then, I think BR blue is certainly the most boring and probably one of the most awful liveries I've seen in my lifetime!

 

Well that's the point of a ' uniform ' paint coat. Universally applied to everything.And of course designed in the 60s when they didn't have the option of just vinyl ing everything

[DonnyRailMan]

Right getting back to thread topic, will Hornby make-it with the new plans to run Hornby.

[GordonC]

By way of example to jjb's point above, my son decided on Saturday that his medieval kings would ride a n (old) carriage. We duly stopped the model train. The medieval King, one of which he's called King George and the other King Edward after the locos...,has, if you recall Blackadder III, a fairly heroic ' stance' to ride his horse. As luck would have it, this gait allows the King to balance neatly on the roof of a carriage rather as you might ride a miniature railway in the grounds of a stately home. We then proceeded to waive flags, blow whistles until the king's got to their station. Whatever's designed, kids will use their own imaginations to make it do something they want.

 

Picture below illustrates - apols for the awful quality!

 

I'm sure its only going to be a matter of time before I have Barbies (not mine might I add, my daughters) riding in my wagons!!

[JSpencer]

I'm sure its only going to be a matter of time before I have Barbies (not mine might I add, my daughters) riding in my wagons!!

Well, when I was very young, I had action man riding on mine!

 

Now I'm getting the layout set back up in my new house, I guess it will only be time before I find (edit: my daughters) Barbie, Elsa and various little ponies traveling on mine. (dam, I can already here the Elsa song coming from a DCC sound loco).

Edited October 18, 2016 by JSpencer

[coachmann]

When I was 15 I bought an 0 gauge bogie bolster from Tyldsley & Holbrook to carry my tortoise. Other livestock was less welcome when the 2P 4-4-0's clockwork mechanism picked up and made a right mess of a slug. 

[Clearwater]

Well, when I was very young, I had action man riding on mine!

 

Now I'm getting the layout set back up in my new house, I guess it will only be time before I find Barbie, Elsa and various little ponies traveling on mine. (dam, I can already here the Elsa song coming from a DCC sound loco).

Let it go....

[Vistisen]

By way of example to jjb's point above, my son decided on Saturday that his medieval kings would ride a n (old) carriage. We duly stopped the model train. The medieval King, one of which he's called King George and the other King Edward after the locos...,has, if you recall Blackadder III, a fairly heroic ' stance' to ride his horse. As luck would have it, this gait allows the King to balance neatly on the roof of a carriage rather as you might ride a miniature railway in the grounds of a stately home. We then proceeded to waive flags, blow whistles until the king's got to their station. Whatever's designed, kids will use their own imaginations to make it do something they want.

 

Picture below illustrates - apols for the awful quality!

 

i do hope there is a tunnel on the line, play values increase greatly if there is

[ruggedpeak]

Right getting back to thread topic, will Hornby make-it with the new plans to run Hornby.

As long as they bring out Frozen themed trainsets without coreless motors then yes.