jcm@gwr Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Certainly the best way of doing it to ensure a neat and correctly positioned job. Will you have it finished by Monday....? He probably will, he's just not going to say which Monday! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 Certainly the best way of doing it to ensure a neat and correctly positioned job. Will you have it finished by Monday....? Definately by a Monday but don't hold your breath . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Now I confess to being totally flumoxed . I realised looking at the photo's in Russel that the diagram in of the D98 in GWR coaches part 2 showed the shell ventilator arrangement for the Brake 3rds in the wrong places. The ventiliators should be over the 3rd end of the compartments not the van end (confirmed by pictures in GWR Coaches Appendix). I assumed the van end plan was correct with ventiliators, to the right of the centre line as viewed from the van end, based on this. I then assumed that the 3rds of the composites would be on the same side as the adjacent brake 3rd. However I'm now wondering if that is actually correct. My Hornby compo has the ventilators over the right hand window of the 3rds when viewed from the non-corridor side that the ventilators are on. My compos are the same but are the opposite hand (ie 3rds on left from this side instead of on the right). In the side-on photographs in the books I cannot tell wheterh the ventilators are near or far side. Any idea which is actually correct before I go any further with the roof details. Also where there handrails on Both sides of the roof centre line (as on the Hornby coaches). These aren;t shown on the diagrams and only one can be seen in any of the photo's I've looked at. There is a rooftop view in an article on the Bow enders in GWRJ but no handrails are present at this later date. If no-one knows for sure I'll leave them as they are, not going to re-drill all thos holes again and fill the old ones if i don't have to . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 These Lionhearts may provide a clue: https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/IMG_5372130417.jpg?preset=large http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/lionheart/coaches/lht622.jpg https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/LHT607COACHES.jpg?preset=large Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) These Lionhearts may provide a clue: https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/IMG_5372130417.jpg?preset=large http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/lionheart/coaches/lht622.jpg https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/LHT607COACHES.jpg?preset=large Thanks Miss P. Unfortunately those are later diagrams D109 with more vents over the van end (and on both sides of the centre line) also don't appear to have the roof hand rails (although I think they were removed in the mid 30s so absence would be correct for BR livery). The vent layout is how I originally laid out my D98 brake 3rd before realising it didn't match the photographs of D98s. There was a comment on the thread on the Hornby Corridor versions that said the roof handrails were originally sngle and on the centre line (which again means I've drilled holes in the wrong places ). Edited January 7, 2018 by Darwinian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Unfortunately those are later diagrams D109 I realise that, which is why I thought they may provide only a clue. Try this one: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrwe1366.htm I'm not sure we ever got to the bottom of the double- to single-handrail matter. (And the previous discussions have I think been confined to corridor stock.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Hmm, that makes it even more confusing. The ventilators appear to all be on the same side of the train. That would imply that they were on different sides on each Brake third and the same on the compos. There is clearly a roof handrail on the near side of the nearest Bk3rd. It appears to be off centre in line with the end hand rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The ventilators are on different sides of each brake and on different sides on each compo. In effect, in finishing the coach set, all the vehicles became handed. Although blanking of 'spare vent' longitudinal positions is well known (see, e.g. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65719-blanking-plates-for-removed-ventilators-on-toplight-roofs/?p=2842788 ), it is possible that 'spare' positions were provided laterally on the non-corridor stock. I don't know. Such a practice would seem excessively fussy for the GWR. It shows here as well: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2628.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 I have found another piece of evidence. GWRJ 98 Spring 2016 p111: there is a picture of a43xx hauling a train into Snow Hill the leading 4 coaches look like D98\E131 set. Ventilators look to be all in one line. I can’t see any roof handrails. Image is dated 1933 by M. F. Yarwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I have been looking into the same ventilator issue for the later D109/E141. Again, as Miss prism has stated, they were handed so the ventilators all line up. There are images that show them NOT inline. We came to the conclusion that some coaches became split from sets at times due to maintenance etc. The plan was they should all line up. Finding evidence has been a challenge. One source was aerial images that show the vents all inline on non corridor trains, even though it was impossible to see the diagram number. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Thanks Mike, So now all I have to do is decide which side of the centre line the ventilators should be and at which end of the compartments. To me the picture in Russel GWR Coaches Appendix of p92 of D98 4949 appears to have the ventilators on the side furthest from the camera so I'll start that end. Ventilators to the left of compartments as viewed from this side. Handrails on this side only. Plain livery- no lining - Garter and outliers. Now I just have to work out what the other 3 carriage numbers in the set would have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roof vents on GWR non-corridor coaches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 One tedious and fiddly job down. Roof destination board brackets done. 0.2mm x 1.5mm brass strip backplate. Left over bits of 1mm x 1mm angle to make the actual bracket part. I know this isn't exactly the profile of the real ones but it should look OK and matches the Hornby Colletts quite well. We had tradesmen here today so it was a goodf excuse to sit and do these taking occasional breaks to make mugs of coffee. Just got to tidy them up and do the centre brackets now, but only 2 of those per coach and they can be made from 1mm and 1.5 mm brass strip. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 It seems that on B-set diagrams, the coaches were not handed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 So these rooves have taken about an hour each to get finished, got a bit quicker for the last couple. I belatedly realised that the ends of the roof handrails should be on one of the inter panel joints, presumably becuase they would be fixed to the roof hoop below. Inevtiably this meant some more filling and re-drilling, although luckily not every hole was in the wrong place. The roof panel "beading" strips are rendered in selotape (other makes available). Simply done by sticking an overlength piece down lightly on a piece of glass (a coaster in this case) and then cutting off approx 1mm strips with a sharp knife and steel rule. I have to admit I did this by eye so they probably vary a bit. All four coaches in correct order: Cruel close up of one composite. Hopefully it will look less of a cobble up once painted. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Once they are painted, who will know apart from you! Looking gooood! Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Next I am attempting to tackle the train alarm gear. I looked through the Wizard/Comet lists on their web site but couldn't find anything for these. I have attempted a scratch build of the "ears" that hold the horizontal rodding using two sizes of telescopic tube. These put the rods in the middle of the "ear" whereas they should be towards the bottom. They are also rather wide and square compared to the real thing. They are however only about 2mm wide and deep. The middle joint to the verticle conduit can be square tube. I am unconvinced that they look right but I have to make four sets so a resonably quick and consistent method is needed. 16 jumper cables are going to be fun too (although Comet do those I don't have any and postage would be as much as the items themselves). I also keep toying with the idea of making them join up in the set. Not sure how yet. Any better suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Well I really couldn't live with that attempt at the alarm gear so decided to try something else. 15thou nickel silver fret waste filled down to 1.3mm strip. End 2mm folded over and soldered with tinmans solder. Drill 0.7mm close to edge. File to a D shape with rounded edges, finished off with wet and dry. File off at the back to leave a small tab to fit into a holle in the coach end. Snip off and tidy up the tab. Solder to horizontal rodding with 188 degree C solder Rodding from 0.45mm brass wire. Square union made from 0.2 x1.5mm brass strip folded over the rod, soldered (188 again) and filed to a sqaure section. Holes drilled in coach end and mountings soldered in 125 degree solder. Verticle rodding soldered to end. This is the first attempt and I got the holes in the coach end about 0.5mm out of horizontal. Hopefully it won't notice in the middle of the set. Much happier with these although it took me one and a half hours to produce this one. Hopefullly the other three will be quicker now I know what I'm doing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 If you have a number to do, it would probably be worthwhile to make a drilling jig out of etch-scrap for the holes in the coach end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 That’s a sensible idea but complicated because the individually formed bow ends aren’t all consistent. I should have done the drilling on the end blanks first but hadn’t thought about how to build the alarm gear then. I’ve only 3 more to do so will just have to be a bit more careful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 I wonder if this is as straightforward as I'd like to think? Would all of the carriages in the set, when built, have a plain lamp bracket over the left hand buffer at both ends? Not that many clear views in the various sources I have available but it looks that way to me. I had to cop out a bit with the characteristic waist level lamp irons that clearly were fitted. I've made them from a shaped piece of 2 thou brass strip to represent the flat bit on the end (rivets to be added from archer ones) and a bit of bent staple for the projecting bit. I know they should be a characteristic shape but brass bends too easily and I don't think I could make them consistent and small enough anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Detailing of the bodies is now largely completed, photos once in works primer. However having purchased some jummper cables from Wizard models I am now doubting whether these were fitted to the non-corridor stock, at least in my period (1929 ish). I cannot see them on any of the views that show part of a carriage end in Russel's volumes and they don't show up on the side views either (which they do on corridor bow end stock). Any ideas before I clean up the bodies and prime them? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I do not understand why they would not have had jumper cables. How, for instance, were lights turned on and off before entering or leaving a tunnel? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Being close-coupled, it would seem two standard jumper leads would not be necessary. The jumper leads appear to be connected from the base of the coach ends, at least on the inner ends. Oddly enough, the pips and plug are moulded on the Dapol 0 gauge B-set but are minus connecting leads. It's funny how these things go unnoticed until someone mentions them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) Not your diagram but the Birmingham sets which had D87 and E124 close coupled pairs had conventional jumpers on the brake end shown in one of Paul Bartlett's pictures whilst on Warwickshire Railways there is a picture of the close coupled end where the conventional jumper positions are plated over and there are two cables coming out between the underframe and body. I think these were effectively hard-wired during fixing of the rigid coupling as there would be no need to disconnect in everyday service. Edit Beaten to it by Coachmann Edited March 18, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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