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Toms LNER Workbench - Comet V2 Chassis


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Lovely shot of the W1 on LB Tom, your video on weathering the W1 using Flory Models washes was inspirational. I have just used them on a couple of Hornby A3's to try them out and I am really pleased with the result, many thanks for the tips.

 

John

 

Hello John,

 

Thanks ever so much for the kind comment - it's really made my day, or night, as it is here! 

 

I have been using those washes for years now, and they are a really excellent product, but I'd not seen many people using them on trains - so I thought why not! 

 

Really glad you had some pleasing results too.

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Hello,

 

I hope the general election is going well - my proxy vote has been organised, so lets hope everything runs smoothly.

 

On that note, if you are bored of election coverage on the TV, then I'd just like to plug my latest YouTube video on my channel Tom's Trains. It goes out tonight at 8pm UK time, and is a round up of what I have been working on this week, as well as a few other nice items of interest. I have a new light and sound set-up so any feedback would be appreciated. So please stop by and have a browse.

 

In other news, my Stirling Class D tender is taking shape:

 

ukbwNzs.jpg

 

I managed to create the tricky 'flare' using a variety of methods (none of them certified) but I got there in the end. It was a job I had been putting off for ages, but in the end, it turned out ok. I'll give it a squirt of primer when it's done and see how it looks, if it's not smooth enough, I will use some model filler and sand it back, though I'm sure a few little ripples here and there is prototypical!

 

ekgfdy2.jpg

 

9KakQ0w.jpg

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That's very tidy! I always seem to end up with solder everywhere! I found when creating the flare on my J21 tender, from the same source, that bending it around a length of aluminum tubing did the job. Not so for the PDK one I've got, as the brass is a little thicker!

 

I really enjoyed your W1 weathering videos, I've got a blue A4 or two waiting to be done in a similar state and that's provided a few very good ideas! Reading about it is one thing, but often seeing it done is much easier to absorb!

 

One question, I can't remember if you mentioned it or not, but where can I get the black wash from? Is it a specialist item, or is it fairly common?

 

Keep up the good work, and flying the LNER flag!

 

Cheers

 

J

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That's very tidy! I always seem to end up with solder everywhere! I found when creating the flare on my J21 tender, from the same source, that bending it around a length of aluminum tubing did the job. Not so for the PDK one I've got, as the brass is a little thicker!

 

I really enjoyed your W1 weathering videos, I've got a blue A4 or two waiting to be done in a similar state and that's provided a few very good ideas! Reading about it is one thing, but often seeing it done is much easier to absorb!

 

One question, I can't remember if you mentioned it or not, but where can I get the black wash from? Is it a specialist item, or is it fairly common?

 

Keep up the good work, and flying the LNER flag!

 

Cheers

 

J

 

Hello J,

 

I can tell you there was plenty of solder all over the place, you should see inside!! I just like to tidy up my work (usually) before taking a picture of it, mainly due to vanity on my part!

 

The wash I used is from these guys: Flory Models. Phil is a top bloke who sells great products. I like their sanding sticks too - much less gaugy (is that a word?) than files for quite a few applications. The great thing about the washes is that they are water based so if you don't like it, then you can get rid of it. Do use a satin or even better gloss finish though.

 

Also, for anyone interested here is the latest YouTube video:

 

https://youtu.be/92AOpHbyI54

Edited by grob1234
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Hello folks,

 

In particular this may be of interest to Graeme and Jonathan, who (I think) have both built this kit in the past. The video shows how I went about forming the tender flare, using a screwdriver as a former. In the end I found this to be the method that suited me best.

 

It seems that the tender part of this kit goes together better than the loco part. I'm finding the fit better, though there are still mis-numbered parts and parts in the etch that aren't called out in the instructions. Has anyone else had this problem with this kit or is it just my ham fisted attempt at it?

 

My solution for kit manufacturers would be this: have the instructions as downloadable PDF's online. That way the document could easily be amended if any mistakes were found. It would also cut down the manufacturing costs, as this LRM kit comes with about 30 pages of A4! Most people have access to a tablet or could even print the instructions out themselves. For those that can't/won't use a computer then printed instructions could be provided at cost. Anyway, just my 10p worth!

 

Here's my latest video; next week at 8pm Thursday night I'll be releasing another video, showing how to build a high level kits gearbox.

 

https://youtu.be/Mg8T3P4Vlss

Edited by grob1234
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I haven't had time to watch the videos so far. I do recall discrepancies in the numbers assigned to the parts for the tender when the text, the fret illustration and the fret itself were compared.

Did you form the flares when the coping plates were still separate? I felt I had more chance of success once one edge was soldered to the tender side-sheet.

I agree with the idea for downloadable "latest" version of instructions, in principle, but if the men at the helm of LRM are as busy as I suspect they may be, the time for re-visiting existing kits may not be available. I'm well placed at present to understand what "busy" can feel like. Somebody to whom computer use is almost second nature, and who can accomplish things in the blink of an eye, could always volunteer to take on the job, with the benefit of the results of consultation with other builders of the kit...

 

Regarding fit of parts for the tender, I had difficulty with the fit of the middle bulkhead. It may have been my inaccurate building, but whilst it seemed a comfortable fit in the dry state, once soldered in place it was evident that it had caused a slight kink in the side sheets, as if it had pushed them outwards amidships. Deciding exactly how and where to fit the shelf for the tool box, and how much, if anything, to trim off in order to make it fit where it had to go, was a bit of a challenge too.

I'm not sure that the details of provided toolbox are correct either.

Edited by gr.king
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I haven't had time to watch the videos so far. I do recall discrepancies in the numbers assigned to the parts for the tender when the text, the fret illustration and the fret itself were compared.

Did you form the flares when the coping plates were still separate? I felt I had more chance of success once on edge was soldered to the tender side-sheet.

 

 

Just had time to skim through part of it and Tom has soldered them to the sides first before using a custom made bending jig and screwdriver in a vice.

 

I've got a J3, J6 and a horseshoe tender in the queue so found it most interesting.

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I haven't had time to watch the videos so far. I do recall discrepancies in the numbers assigned to the parts for the tender when the text, the fret illustration and the fret itself were compared.Did you form the flares when the coping plates were still separate? I felt I had more chance of success once on edge was soldered to the tender side-sheet.I agree with the idea for downloadable "latest" version of instructions, in principle, but if the men at the helm of LRM are as busy as I suspect they may be, the time for re-visiting existing kits may not be available. I'm well placed at present to understand what "busy" can feel like. Somebody to whom computer use is almost second nature, and who can accomplish things in the blink of an eye, could always volunteer to take on the job, with the benefit of the results consultation with other builders of the kit...Regarding fit of parts for the tender, I had difficulty with the fit of the middle bulkhead. It may have been my inaccurate building, but whilst it seemed a comfortable fit in the dry state, once soldered in place it was evident that it had caused a slight kink in the side sheets, as if it had pushed them outwards amidships. Deciding exactly how and where to fit the shelf for the tool box, and how much, if anything, to trim off in order to make it fit where it had to go, was a bit of a challenge too.I'm not sure that the details of provided toolbox are correct either.

Hello Graeme,

 

Nice to hear from you. Busy is indeed to word, my July roster is awful, so will really be struggling to get time at the workbench sadly. Alas progress is being made, at a snails pace!

 

I soldered the flare to the side, I wanted a bit of real estate to grab hold of, the idea of doing the piece separately seemed a bit daunting to me. I think it worked out ok in the end, I'll have to see how it looks after a coat of primer, and fill and sand as required.

 

I actually didn't have a problem with the middle bulkhead, but I cheated a bit because I narrowed it with the file before I built it. I had a sneaking suspicion that it might be a little over, so I erred on the side of caution and made it a fraction narrower. I knew I could fill the hairline gap on one side with solder, and thus maintain the strength of the bulkhead.

 

Whilst we are at it - the vents on top of the tender - were they fitted to all of them? The picture I have of the loco I am building doesn't seem to have any, but I could be wrong.

 

I'm very glad to hear that the guys at LRM are busy, hopefully that's busy with the business. Part of the reason I'm doing these videos is to try and reach out to people via a really popular outlet and try to spread the word about kit building. I have thoroughly enjoyed my adventures with it, and I'm sure others would too.

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Just had time to skim through part of it and Tom has soldered them to the sides first before using a custom made bending jig and screwdriver in a vice.

 

I've got a J3, J6 and a horseshoe tender in the queue so found it most interesting.

Thanks Dave. I'll post some pictures of it when it's done might be of some help, though be warned it's my interpretation of the instructions, other builds may vary!

 

When will we see more on Sandy?

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It may be helpful to make a male/female bending jig for the tender flares.  The smaller rod is the correct diameter, and a half section can be produced by drilling a blank and slitting in half-or using a piece of pipe the correct diameter.

So, male/flare section/female and press together in a vice.

Keep up the videos-most enjoyable. 

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I found Tom's approach to forming the flare most illuminating. All, bar one, of the tenders I have ( and will build) are LNWR which have a tapering flare. Over the years I have found that I can achieve this using fingers and a suitable piece of steel rod and applying pressure as required. Not as sophisticated as Tom's wooden forming jig, which  looks excellent. Filling in the "fingers" at the rear corners is the nightmare

 

post-1191-0-55367900-1497606801_thumb.jpg

 

I don't share the view that providing instructions viewed on a screen are the best way for building a model. Old hat perhaps, but I prefer paper copy, which I can then write on as required. Most buyers would also expect to get a hard copy or a CDRom set of instructions in the box. Putting them online would help prospective buyers get an idea of the kit's  complexity or otherwise but I don't think it would give a cost saving benefit.

 

GRK's thought that LRM's sole proprietor may not have time to update/amend instructions for older kits isn't far off the mark.  The instructions for many of the early kits exist in hard copy only, some being typed before the days of word processors, so changes (other than adding an Addendum or Corrigendum) would be time consuming. It should be remembered that etched kits sell in very small numbers after the initial "rush" of buying when introduced (which may run into double figures :good:), so amending instructions becomes rather a low priority unless there are fundamental errors. Converting the old instructions (including some I wrote for the early LRM LNWR loco kits using a BBC Acorn computer) to a pdf would be difficult although a scanned version might be possible.

 

I can't comment on the difficulties Tom experienced with the J3 kit. It was designed for LRM by Paul Craig, under the guidance of the late Malcolm Crawley (for those who didn't know him, Malcolm was an experienced 4mm modeller, a former Doncaster apprentice and one of the leading lights in the Tornado project). Malcolm would also have done the loco test etch builds, including the tender which was already part of the range.

 

Most Small Suppliers are, like LRM, single headed operations. Branchlines, High Level, Roxey Mouldings, Wizard/51L/Comet, the new C&l, Hobby Holidays, Stevenson Carriages/Millolme, David Geen and others. Many have "supporters" who help out at shows, something I have also done for many years with LRM and which is why some people wrongly assume I have a more important role than I do! Living 100 miles from LRM's Watford base makes anything beyond helping at shows, a bit of design work, etc., impossible.

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Thanks Dave. I'll post some pictures of it when it's done might be of some help, though be warned it's my interpretation of the instructions, other builds may vary!

 

When will we see more on Sandy?

 

I've got half a dozen things on the go at present, I've been taking pics and I'll post them when I finally finish at least one of them........it just won't be the control panel... :O  

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It has been stated elsewhere that the LRM Stirling class D tender as per Tom's kit build, and one or two other LRM GNR tender kits were entirely Malcolm Crawley's design work, not that this makes any difference to the practical questions here of how best to build them.

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It has been stated elsewhere that the LRM Stirling class D tender as per Tom's kit build, and one or two other LRM GNR tender kits were entirely Malcolm Crawley's design work, not that this makes any difference to the practical questions here of how best to build them.

 

I picked up a Horseshoe tender at Railex which has joined the build queue.

Edited by chris p bacon
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Paul Craig has just emailed me to say that the Stirling D tender was the work of Malcolm Crawley, while the J3 loco was designed by Steve Barnfield. All that is news to me so I'll ask John Redrup at the S4 AGM tomorrow..

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It may be helpful to make a male/female bending jig for the tender flares.  The smaller rod is the correct diameter, and a half section can be produced by drilling a blank and slitting in half-or using a piece of pipe the correct diameter.

So, male/flare section/female and press together in a vice.

Keep up the videos-most enjoyable.

 

  

 

Thank you, Sir. I don't know your name but am very glad you enjoy the videos. I find it an interesting aspect of the hobby, and I've always liked photography, so it's a really nice fit.

 

I found Tom's approach to forming the flare most illuminating. All, bar one, of the tenders I have ( and will build) are LNWR which have a tapering flare. Over the years I have found that I can achieve this using fingers and a suitable piece of steel rod and applying pressure as required. Not as sophisticated as Tom's wooden forming jig, which  looks excellent. Filling in the "fingers" at the rear corners is the nightmare

 

attachicon.gif2000g tender build 2.jpg

 

I don't share the view that providing instructions viewed on a screen are the best way for building a model. Old hat perhaps, but I prefer paper copy, which I can then write on as required. Most buyers would also expect to get a hard copy or a CDRom set of instructions in the box. Putting them online would help prospective buyers get an idea of the kit's  complexity or otherwise but I don't think it would give a cost saving benefit.

 

GRK's thought that LRM's sole proprietor may not have time to update/amend instructions for older kits isn't far off the mark.  The instructions for many of the early kits exist in hard copy only, some being typed before the days of word processors, so changes (other than adding an Addendum or Corrigendum) would be time consuming. It should be remembered that etched kits sell in very small numbers after the initial "rush" of buying when introduced (which may run into double figures :good:), so amending instructions becomes rather a low priority unless there are fundamental errors. Converting the old instructions (including some I wrote for the early LRM LNWR loco kits using a BBC Acorn computer) to a pdf would be difficult although a scanned version might be possible.

 

I can't comment on the difficulties Tom experienced with the J3 kit. It was designed for LRM by Paul Craig, under the guidance of the late Malcolm Crawley (for those who didn't know him, Malcolm was an experienced 4mm modeller, a former Doncaster apprentice and one of the leading lights in the Tornado project). Malcolm would also have done the loco test etch builds, including the tender which was already part of the range.

 

Most Small Suppliers are, like LRM, single headed operations. Branchlines, High Level, Roxey Mouldings, Wizard/51L/Comet, the new C&l, Hobby Holidays, Stevenson Carriages/Millolme, David Geen and others. Many have "supporters" who help out at shows, something I have also done for many years with LRM and which is why some people wrongly assume I have a more important role than I do! Living 100 miles from LRM's Watford base makes anything beyond helping at shows, a bit of design work, etc., impossible.

  

 

Paul Craig has just emailed me to say that the Stirling D tender was the work of Malcolm Crawley, while the J3 loco was designed by Steve Barnfield. All that is news to me so I'll ask John Redrup at the S4 AGM tomorrow..

Thank you Jol for the very interesting insights. First of all the bending jig was designed by me and built for me by my father in law (he's a trained carpenter) out of some form of hard wood. Initially, I used it to form the tumblehome on coach etches, and it does this excellently, the beauty being there is absolutely no danger of folding the metal, if you over bend it, you simply flip the piece over and un bend it, so it really is a useful thing. In this case however, it was ok to start the bend but the radius was too large to completely form the flare of the tender.

 

With regards to kit instructions, I hear what you're saying. The time taken to transfer the existing instructions to digital format is simply not worth the effort for the amount of kits sold, which to me is a real pity, because it is obvious to me that there are many many people who like model railways but not so many who build kits. I certainly feel it would be prudent to produce new kits with some form of digital instructions however to facilitate easy changing. And remember, online instructions could always be printed - I too scribble all over my instruction leaflets during builds. Anyone seeing what I write would think I'm a madman.

 

With regards to the J3, probably easy for me to say this now you said it, but I can see now that they are the work of two different individuals. I guess it's how people's minds work, and this translates into the kit.

 

Now I wouldn't say I'm having difficulties with the kit, it's about 90% done. Some of the issues I have experienced have been my own fault, for example I messed up the parts that make up the cab floor adjacent to the cab sides because I over cut the pieces for p4 and not 00, consequently I had clearance issues, which I resolved by scratch building replacement parts. This is no fault of the kit what so ever so would never dream of calling that out as a bad point.

 

I suppose I have just found this kit a little harder than I possibly expected, with a few little fit issues here and there, and a few little bits and pieces in the instructions that may have led me astray, however, it's nothing that can't be resolved. In many respects this is the real modelling, when you have to think for yourself and make it work. I do enjoy the challenge of this sort of modelling, but it's also enjoyable when a kit flies together in no time. I think the most frustrating bit for me is when it says something like fit part x. And there is no indication of what part x is or indeed it's orientation or anything else for that matter, that I do find annoying. Having said all that I'm reasonably confident of making the J3 look respectable, and would love any feedback from you. I'll be posting a few new pictures in about two weeks time when hopefully the loco will be done.

 

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to this thread, it's great to be able to get a bit of kit related discussion going.

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Hello folks, 

 

I thought I would have a change from building the J3 and switch back to the Silver Jubilee. I was inspired by the rake I saw on Tony's thread, so I got all the stuff out and had a go at my own! 

 

One big job was re profiling the roofs which has now been done. I have also soldered together the bodies of all 8 coaches. I'm very happy with the results so far. The addition of tabs really helped when making these. I'm pretty pleased with the uniformity of the rake so far too.

 

Next I will be working on the exterior detail, step boards, corridor connectors etc, as well as interior detail.

 

ucQ3IBz.jpg

 

m9dxjSq.jpg

 

sRcfHbn.jpg

Edited by grob1234
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Thought I would take some time this morning for a few better shots. Cropped, black background, f36, 100ISO 1 sec exposure, and simply sharpened up, showing all of the flaws in the work!

 

suLYZZe.jpg

 

oTKBvJW.jpg

 

Ik8GsDK.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Good video Tom, Something I do on pick ups is to put some sleeving over the .45 where it passes by gearboxes. I can't actually remember where I got it but it resembles the internals of ball point pens.

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Good video Tom, Something I do on pick ups is to put some sleeving over the .45 where it passes by gearboxes. I can't actually remember where I got it but it resembles the internals of ball point pens.

 

Cheers Dave, I sometimes use the outer casing of fine wire that I have stripped that works pretty well too.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello everyone, 

 

Just a little heads up, my latest video is being released tonight at 8pm UK time. It is a review of the DJH LNER A1/3 in 4mm scale. Remember to tune in and get first look this evening.

 

yfv0NJ0.jpg

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Hello everyone

 

I have been detailing my London Road Models J3. Adding steps, lamp irons, hand rails, cast details and so on. Also a few small plastic pieces were glued on to add extra detail. I also made up what I presume are the rods to control the sand boxes. As each and every J3 seems to be different, I have used referance pictures to try and get it as accurate as possible. I must also finish off the chassis, including the break gear and connecting rods. I added boiler bands from black tape, which I find quite easy to apply, has the same very feint appearance as the prototype and is also nice and square, so for me, that trumps using the etched ones in the kit. I am just awaiting globe lubricators, then I will prime her, get her painted and we will be onto the painting and weathering, and really bring this one to life.

 

IY2kV05.jpg

 

fajO1Ot.jpg

 

7Bsx4cl.jpg

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  • grob1234 changed the title to Toms LNER Workbench - Comet V2 Chassis

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