grob1234 Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Chas Levin said: Absolutely beautiful Tom! The two blues and the silver look so gorgeous together - very tempted to build some myself when I see pictures like that... Well Chas, we just need some kind soul to create the etches for the sides and ends.... then offer West Riding Ltd, Coronation and spare, and most likely 3D printed ends for the beaver tail! id be in for a set or two... Edited November 11, 2020 by grob1234 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Worsley Works have 4mm etches for the West Riding Set 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, micklner said: Worsley Works have 4mm etches for the West Riding Set Oh so they do! Quite a few interesting bits there as well looks like they’ll make up etches as well. Thanks very much Mick. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 11, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2020 I'm a little wary of the Worlsey ones as I have found that the Gresley teak etches are the wrong shape ends and the sides are about 1mm too small height-wise. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Bucoops said: I'm a little wary of the Worlsey ones as I have found that the Gresley teak etches are the wrong shape ends and the sides are about 1mm too small height-wise. Worsley do not list any Gresley Teak Coaches ?? He is very helpful , I am building some D&S NER Clerstory Coaches at the moment, they all had missing Roofs , he has supplied amended Roofs from his range of NER Coaches to fit onto them. I had sides only, for one NER Coach and he has supplied ends and partitions as well for that one . If he ever did Teak Gresleys?, I am sure he would replace the incorrect items. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 13, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 08:46, micklner said: Worsley do not list any Gresley Teak Coaches ?? He is very helpful , I am building some D&S NER Clerstory Coaches at the moment, they all had missing Roofs , he has supplied amended Roofs from his range of NER Coaches to fit onto them. I had sides only, for one NER Coach and he has supplied ends and partitions as well for that one . If he ever did Teak Gresleys?, I am sure he would replace the incorrect items. They seem to have been removed now. I raised the issue December last year. I've not chased recently as I know etching companies are way behind. The MJT cast ends have been measured as correct. RDEB are too big (left side) and Worsley the roof profile is wrong and dips down too low: The sides are too low - you can see a strip all along the bottom: I've only just noticed there's a discrepency on where the doors are as well. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffer Davies Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 31 minutes ago, Bucoops said: They seem to have been removed now. I raised the issue December last year. I've not chased recently as I know etching companies are way behind. The MJT cast ends have been measured as correct. RDEB are too big (left side) and Worsley the roof profile is wrong and dips down too low: The sides are too low - you can see a strip all along the bottom: I've only just noticed there's a discrepency on where the doors are as well. How confident are you that the drawing is correct? Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 13, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said: How confident are you that the drawing is correct? Frank Fairly - I think the prototype sides should be 6' 5 5/8" to the underside of the cornice? No sure what tolerance they were built to. My maths with feet and inches isn't great but that's very nearly 25.9mm in 4mm scale? Way back when I first found it I did some measuring. Measured when flat, the Worsley sides are 24.5mm, when rolled they obviously lose a bit of height. For reference, measured flat: Comet Side: 25mm RDEB 26.5mm MJT 25.5mm So none of them measure up exactly but RDEB is again too big, Comet and MJT in the middle somewhere with MJT being closest. If ALL my coaches were from the same source I wouldn't mind but not all diagrams I need are available from one place so it's proving a lot of work to try and get them to look the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 The drawings are a sod to work measurements out from as they don't ever give a single dimension for the height of the side and all the ones I have start vertical measurements from the bottom beading. I reckon you're about right, though, I worked it out as 6' 5 7/8". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffer Davies Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Bucoops said: Fairly - I think the prototype sides should be 6' 5 5/8" to the underside of the cornice? No sure what tolerance they were built to. My maths with feet and inches isn't great but that's very nearly 25.9mm in 4mm scale? Way back when I first found it I did some measuring. Measured when flat, the Worsley sides are 24.5mm, when rolled they obviously lose a bit of height. For reference, measured flat: Comet Side: 25mm RDEB 26.5mm MJT 25.5mm So none of them measure up exactly but RDEB is again too big, Comet and MJT in the middle somewhere with MJT being closest. If ALL my coaches were from the same source I wouldn't mind but not all diagrams I need are available from one place so it's proving a lot of work to try and get them to look the same I should have been more specific. I was questioning the window and door positions more than the height of the sides. Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 13, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said: I should have been more specific. I was questioning the window and door positions more than the height of the sides. Frank Ah, sorry. Can't be certain on that at all. I would trust a GA more for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted November 13, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Bucoops said: So none of them measure up exactly but RDEB is again too big Speaking to Rupert about how we both draw stuff and he draws at something like 10mm to the foot then rescales the drawing for 4mm/7mm etc. I wonder if some innaccuracies can creep in there ? I only do 4mm so draw to the size I want. on the one occasion where I wanted a loco I'd done in 4mm rescaled to 7mm I ended up doing a complete redraw as it just didn't work scaling it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 hour ago, jwealleans said: The drawings are a sod to work measurements out from as they don't ever give a single dimension for the height of the side and all the ones I have start vertical measurements from the bottom beading. I reckon you're about right, though, I worked it out as 6' 5 7/8". As you say very difficult to determine and I spent too many hours trying to work everything out. First of all there are two different heights of the sides depending on whether the body is resting on rubber pads on the underframe or not. 6'5 7/8" is the correct height of the body sides including the cornice where no rubber pads have been used (the cornice is 2 1/2"). For bodies with the rubber pads there is a 7/8" gap and the sides are reduced accordingly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 13, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, chris p bacon said: Speaking to Rupert about how we both draw stuff and he draws at something like 10mm to the foot then rescales the drawing for 4mm/7mm etc. I wonder if some innaccuracies can creep in there ? I only do 4mm so draw to the size I want. on the one occasion where I wanted a loco I'd done in 4mm rescaled to 7mm I ended up doing a complete redraw as it just didn't work scaling it up. It wouldn't surprise me it was something like that - it's ruddy annoying as the actual design works really well, but there are all sorts of etch mask errors which I've documented elsewhere and it's too big Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, jwealleans said: The drawings are a sod to work measurements out from as they don't ever give a single dimension for the height of the side and all the ones I have start vertical measurements from the bottom beading. I reckon you're about right, though, I worked it out as 6' 5 7/8". As I believe Jonathon and one or two others know, around this time last year I delved into the question of "correct" side height too (plus beading positions), arrived at figures matching those quoted by Mike Trice, and then carefully scanned, measured and compared sides on various Gresley teak vehicle models. I was dismayed at just how poor and variable some brands were, elderly Kirks for instance, as compared to say MJT or modern Hornby (even if the latter are marred by the incorrect curvature of the side). Bill Bedford's 3D prints for the earlier Howlden vehicles seemed to me to be about right too, and I've ended up rather tediously moving all of the cornices on some D & S vehicles I built some years ago in order to conform with my new knowledge of what is right! Even the overall side height on the old Margate "Gresley style" vehicles seemed surprisingly accurate, although so much else about them is wrong. It's interesting that some of their "superior" contemporaries had the wrong side height... Edited November 14, 2020 by gr.king Inserted missing word 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) I got fed up keep trying to determine the vertical heights from the GA's so ended up producing the following reference: Edited November 14, 2020 by MikeTrice Typo 2 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2020 Thanks Mike, very very useful (now, how do you tell if it's a padded one or not!?). Apologies for steering the thread way off course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 The giveaway, apart from a physical gap between the solebars and body, is the lower 2" has a groove along its centre which the GAs reproduce: 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Tangential to the main question here, but is the height of the GNR Gresley roof profile known, for comparison with the above two diagrams? I'm sure it is taller than the LNER group standard version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Overall height of GNR equivalent is 12' 8 5/8" (compared to LNER 12'6") with the roof being 2' 2 1/8" high. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted November 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2020 21 hours ago, MikeTrice said: I got fed up keep trying to determine the vertical heights from the GA's so ended up producing the following reference: Thanks for posting this Mike - very useful indeed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2020 17 hours ago, MikeTrice said: Overall height of GNR equivalent is 12' 8 5/8" (compared to LNER 12'6") with the roof being 2' 2 1/8" high. Did that cause any gauging issues on grouping? I know some locos were given shorter chimneys and lower cabs etc. to bring them into the LNER gauge which was smaller than the GNR one? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Wood Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 On 22/06/2020 at 18:55, grob1234 said: Quick re-spray. Much more like it I think. Here is a contrast with the A4 Silver Link Tender. Original: New version: Very similar IMHO to the Loveless set, which I am led to believe is very accurate. Don't model a model, etc etc. Hello Can I ask what are the colours reference numbers that you used for the Silver Jubilee, a friend of mine is working on the Wizard Models kit in a similar fashion to how you built your set, and is struggling with the paint matching. Thank you Tom C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 On 08/01/2021 at 12:23, Norton Wood said: Hello Can I ask what are the colours reference numbers that you used for the Silver Jubilee, a friend of mine is working on the Wizard Models kit in a similar fashion to how you built your set, and is struggling with the paint matching. Thank you Tom C Hi Tom, If memory serves correctly, I used Pheonix P56 for the bogies and skirts, and P54 for the main body colour. It's all a little bit iffy, as any colour renditions/pictures of the coaches show a great variation in tone. Best to go with what you 'feel' is correct. Either way, you can be guaranteed that someone will disagree 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 Hello Despite not posting much, I have been busy in any spare time I’m lucky enough to get, and have been making progress with various projects. I like to have a few on the go at any one time, as I find that I come up against natural barriers in construction. I then leave that project, and come back to it in a few days, and the problem often seems to solve itself. One thing I have been working on is the chassis for the V2. I’ve installed pick-ups to one side, and have also installed pick-ups to the outer tender wheels using DCC concepts pick up pads. They worked quite well and give a neat result. The power from the tender is fed through a micro JST connector and to the loco. I think its quite useful the show the underside of a chassis as this is how it actually works. In the loco, I have fitted a high-level high flier gearbox and a great big Mashima round can motor. There is a problem with the motion assembly with the comet chassis. The relationship between the motion support and the slide bars was all wrong as I initially built it. Additionally, the crosshead was interfering with the front of the slide bars at the most forward portion of travel. After much swearing and cursing, I did a bit of research, and found that the slide bars were about 2mm too long. So, I unsoldered them, lopped off 2mm and refitted them. Next was to tackle the motion support bracket. Measuring off the isinglass drawing, showed the depth of these to be about 8mm. Mine were closer to 10mm. So, I re bent the brackets, and trimmed off the excess. Now I feel that the relationship is correct (or less wrong) and the motion support bracket just touches the end of the slide bars. Now I just need to repaint the cylinder castings as the paint bubbled with all the extra soldering I was doing, and then refit the valve gear. Simple. 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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