Gold bullion by ECML

[South of 1E]

looking through my old East coast records a 1G70 "gold bullion" train was viewed several times through mid 70's Hitchin. Last time i saw it was up empty bullion flats in October 81. Does anybody know any more information on these trains, from hazy memory they were containers presumably very high value. Motive power was always a 31 so a lightweight train in terms of tonnage if not value!

 

thanks

 

NR

[Fat Controller]

looking through my old East coast records a 1G70 "gold bullion" train was viewed several times through mid 70's Hitchin. Last time i saw it was up empty bullion flats in October 81. Does anybody know any more information on these trains, from hazy memory they were containers presumably very high value. Motive power was always a 31 so a lightweight train in terms of tonnage if not value!

 

thanks

 

NR

I remember these at Tyneside freight depot; I think the load was more new coin and notes for the Bank of England's outstation in Newcastle, rather than bullion. There would also be sacks of notes that had gone through the washing machine, caught light and so on- there was a specialist team at Newcastle that dealt with these. I worked somewhere overlooking TCFD for a while, and the arrival of the bullion was always amusing, as the local police practiced setting out a perimeter and so on.

[stevex59]

There were 5 Bullion Vans that resembled mk1 stock and painted in blue and white to match passenger carrying coaches.

They were numbered M99200, M99201, M99202, W99203, E99204, they were converted from mk1  coaches 35020, 35021, 35000,34994 and 34995 which were all BSK type and the conversion was done 1965/66, these were coded SLB

As can be seen 3 were allocated to the Midland, 1 for the Western and 1 for the Eastern regions.

Additionally there were 4 Bullion Bogie Flats that resembled a freightliner wagon, E99500, E99501, M99502 and M99503 they were built at Derby in 1971 and were coded BFB.

As they became withdrawn they ended up at various places like Radyr Yard in wales and Peterborough Yard, some made it through to the Departmental Coach Stock.

I think 1 or 2 have been preserved.

[stevex59]

99200 became 083636 and is currently on the East Somerset Railway

99201 became 889301 and is currently on the Northampton and Lamport Railway

99202 became 977692 and is currently on the Strathspey Railway.

99203 became 083637 and is at Stewarts Lane with the VSOE stock

99204 became 889302, the 025030 and is currently at Peak Rail at Rowsley.

 

I can not find any trace of the "Flats", maybe they were cut up.

[hmrspaul]

This has flats at Radyr http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bullionflat

and a couple of the coaches http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmark1/e23d0455d  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmark1/e3ee05fa4

 

Paul

[mcowgill]

Have a look at this old topic, some interesting photos and details, I knew I had posted a couple of photos somewhere

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28869-a-bullion-van-other-storage-facilities/

 

Martin

[Shedmaster]

Hi,

 

Here's your Stewarts Lane one, in current, recently repainted condition :

 

 

 

Hope this is of interest ?

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Shed.

( edited to replace pictures that were too low quality after resizing )

Edited February 19, 2016 by Shedmaster

[96701]

Ex Bullion van when it was on the Gloucester Warwick Railway. I was assisting Geoff Brewin to measure it up so that he could make a model of it for Comet. The window half way down has been added since it stopped being a bullion van, but the periscope was still there as were the two 'toilets'; one with a wc in it, the other with a sink. The coach was ETH pressure ventilated on B5 bogies.

 

(Time to get out of the anorak).

[keefer]

Bit early timewise, but spotted this pic of a Leeds-Stratford working in 1970 (scroll down for info in the comments)

 

http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/show/3759/Bank-notes-on-the-move

 

EDIT: just noticed it was taken by Keith Long, so a better version might be in his cabsaab900 Flickr

Edited February 19, 2016 by keefer

[GordonC]

What was in the raised roof sections of these coaches?

[keefer]

I'm sure anything I've read about them says they are periscopes.

The only other thing I can think they might be would be covers for VHF radio equipment (like on some TPO)

Edited February 20, 2016 by keefer

[eastwestdivide]

There's photos in DaveF's monster photo thread at various points, e.g.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-19th-february/?p=2118825

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-19th-february/?p=2164900

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-19th-february/?p=1580754

 

and more details in Mallard60022's thread here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28869-a-bullion-van-other-storage-facilities/

[96701]

A view of the roof of W99202 shows the periscopes above the compartment with the other two wider pods on the roof over the bullion store.

 

[keefer]

Admittedly I hadn't looked at the roof gear closely to see the 'standard' periscopes. So I would assume then that the pods are radio eqpt

[jamie92208]

They also ran to Leeds as there was a Bank of England branch there.  They unloaded at Stourton freightliner terminal, usually two containers and the lorries went straight to the bank.  The stock was then stabled in Leeds station on the rod between what I think was platforms 2 and 4 before the station was rebuilt.  The container flats had 100mph bogies and buckeye couplers from memory.

 

The train usually went back the next day.

 

Jamie

[South of 1E]

many thanks all your replies, will look out for the preserved examples from now on. The knowledge base on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

thanks again

 

NR

 

www.leightonlogs.org

[Swindon 123]

I worked on these trains a couple of times whilst I was at Kings Cross. In my time they originated at the old Stratford Freightliner terminal, the containers arriving under heavy police escort shortly before the trains booked departure. We would get the loco, more often than not a 31, from Stratford depot and go light engine to the FLT and await the arrival of the containers. We would then work the train via Dalston and Cannonbury Jcns to Finsbury Park and get relieved. My last working on one was in 1984 from Finsbury Park to Doncaster with a particularly poor Class 31, (a Bristol engine IIRC). It ran high water temperature almost from when we left Finsbury Park and we tried all sorts of tricks to cool it down including opening all the engine room internal doors and back cab windows and even the panels at the back of radiators to try and get some cooling through the engine room. The Driver had to nurse the loco along and even with only 2 flats and the escort coach in tow we lost about 10 mins to Doncaster, where there was a long inquest with the driver as to why we had lost time. These trains were monitored along the lines of the Royal Train when it came to lost time.

 

Paul J.

[chris p bacon]

I have a note of a Northbound one in 1980 when I was working at Hitchin, Bullion van, flat with container(s) and 47 as motive power, can't read the number but it's marked as FP loco.

[GordonC]

so are the periscopes fixed in position then? I assume they cant raise up since they'll quite quickly go out of gauge, but from where they are it doesn't look like they'd see much above the radio roof pods

[keefer]

They are raised in 96701's pic, they were designed just to look along the roof line. As you say it's debatable how much can be seen. I think, when retracted they're flush with the roof.

 

The carriage minutes in the Parkin mk1 supplement have a few mentions about their use on normal brake vans, mainly were they any use or just more bother than they were worth re: problems maintaining them etc. IIRC the SR were the most in favour of keeping them

[96701]

so are the periscopes fixed in position then? I assume they cant raise up since they'll quite quickly go out of gauge, but from where they are it doesn't look like they'd see much above the radio roof pods

There you go. Given an opportunity, I just could not resist.

[Atlantic]

I guess all the coins and notes were carried in the bullion vans, but what was the purpose of the bullion flats? I can only find pictures of them with no load???

[keefer]

Mentioned further up the thread. Sometimes containers were used, which were put on the flat.

[Michael Hodgson]

I don't know whether the trains carried gold bullion or morely likely just banknotes and coin. In the 1970s the Bank of England had at least half a dozen branches in major cities such as Manchester and Newcastle, and I think these were regional cash centres.  The clearing banks also had their own regional centres with strong rooms used for redistribution of notes and coin between their own branches, other banks and of course the Bank of England.  The net flow of banknotes would be new outwards from the Bank of England (but probably from their security printers rather than Threadneedle Street), old grubby ones unfit for reissue would travel the other way to be cancelled and destroyed.   Likewise I imagine coinage was distributed from the Mint rather than the Bof E. 

 

Gold is something you keep locked up; so there is a cost of holding it - the need for vaults, alarms, guards etc.  So most people prefer to leave it in the vaults in London.  The vast majority of gold bullion transactions don't involve any physical movement of gold, they are just book entries transferring title to a new owner, but sometimes international sales do require large amounts of the stuff to be moved usually to overseas governments/banks. 

 

Working in Princes Street in the 19970s/80s, I sometimes witnessed what were obviously bullion shipments.  Without any warning the back door to the Bank of England (Lothbury entrance) would open to allow a heavy van to emerge something like this photo, escorted by at least two police cars each carrying four burly men, no doubt armed, sometimes accompanied by motor cycle outriders.  They certainly didn't hang around, and were gone as suddenly as they had appeared.  I may be mistaken but I got the impression some of the traffic lights in the immediate area had been controlled to give them a clear run. 

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2F2AW293F%2Fan-hgv-lorry-carrying-something-inside-of-high-value-often-bullion-or-cash-is-driven-at-speed-under-police-escort-in-a-convoy-on-princes-street-and-passing-beneath-the-tall-walls-of-the-bank-of-england-on-4th-february-2020-in-the-city-of-london-england-2AW293F.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fan-hgv-lorry-carrying-something-inside-of-high-value-often-bullion-or-cash-is-driven-at-speed-under-police-escort-in-a-convoy-on-princes-street-and-passing-beneath-the-tall-walls-of-the-bank-of-england-on-4th-february-2020-in-the-city-of-london-england-image342414451.html&tbnid=m-11uuKSWYpUTM&vet=12ahUKEwjTpJG-prv8AhXppycCHXivAycQMygAegQIARBb..i&docid=QAqaBBC1xmwN1M&w=1300&h=956&q=bank of england bullion van&client=firefox-b-d&ved=2ahUKEwjTpJG-prv8AhXppycCHXivAycQMygAegQIARBb

 

The vans I saw were perhaps older than that photo, and had an upper deck for guards "riding shotgun", although more modern than this

 

 

[roythebus1]

I worked the bullion train a couple of times as a 2nd man at KX. with my first regular mate Ron Birch we had to relieve the Stratford crew at Finsbury Park. We had to be a quick as possible in the change-over as it was tightly timed as others have said. We also had a helicopter escort for most of the way. We got relieved at Donny and pass back to KX. Not a popular job for no.1 and 2 link men as there was no mileage involved! We were in 3 link and Ron Birch being a former Donny man still signed the road so he used to get a lot of the one-way Donny jobs. We also had a 37 on it. Ron, being an ex Donny man, also signed 37s which very few KX men did.

 

ISTR the compartment in the bullion van was for the armed guard.

 

"Bullion" was carried for The Royal Mint by the Tower of London to Stratford for loading so we were told.

Edited January 9, 2023 by roythebus1