Trix trains

[andyman7]

One thing I remember from the 70s when I was a lad was that old books and magazines on model railways would bemoan the fact that proprietary OO systems were incompatible. I couldn't quite understand this because as far as I could see you could run Hornby, Wrenn, Lima, Mainline and Airfix together. The latter did have narrow couplings you needed to change but that was it. Wrenn boxes mentioned that they had Triang couplings but they looked like Hornby ones to me....

 

Of course now it all makes sense, the Triang system survived alone into the 1970s but with the Hornby name, and had adopted the latter's 2 rail wheel and rail standards so creating in effect a British RTR OO template, but as a ten year old it was a bit confusing

[Il Grifone]

I solved the Duchess/ A4 conflict by having both 

 

Märklin will run on Dublo track (but not the other way round due to the stud contacts* and A.C. supplies). There are reversing problems of course, but nothing a couple of diodes won't solve

 

* Märklin was originally 3 rail, but the gauge seems to have been 16mm. Dublo stock is not happy on the track I have. Märklin wheels are rather coarser than Dublo.

 

I can remember a box of Märklin* for sale in a local second hand shop back in the fifties. I rather fancied adding it to my collection, but the price (£20) was a stumbling block.......      I did acquire an open wagon, but it wasn't a great success, even when I fitted it with Peco couplings

 

* I recall there was a Pacific included - presumably an 01.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

One thing I remember from the 70s when I was a lad was that old books and magazines on model railways would bemoan the fact that proprietary OO systems were incompatible. I couldn't quite understand this because as far as I could see you could run Hornby, Wrenn, Lima, Mainline and Airfix together. The latter did have narrow couplings you needed to change but that was it. Wrenn boxes mentioned that they had Triang couplings but they looked like Hornby ones to me....

 

Of course now it all makes sense, the Triang system survived alone into the 1970s but with the Hornby name, and had adopted the latter's 2 rail wheel and rail standards so creating in effect a British RTR OO template, but as a ten year old it was a bit confusing

 

It was a big problem in the fifties.

Peco in part solved it with conversion packs (wheels and couplings) for rolling stock. However the cost (4 wheel 2/6d and 8 wheel 3/6d, IIRC) made the Tri-ang stock expensive. The couplings weren't 100% effective either. If you wanted to fit Tri-ang wheels and couplings to Dublo or Trix stock, you were on your own. There was 'universal' track available, but my trials with one make are best glossed over.... Some firms offered locomotives converted for other systems at suitably inflated prices.

 

Tri-ang (Mark III) and Hornby* couplings are the same thing of course. Wrenn referring to 'Tri-ang' probably dates from they were 'Tri-ang-Wrenn'

 

* 'Hornby' here includes Tri-ang-Hornby and means 1964 onwards.

[decauville1126]

Picked up some AC stuff at a boot fair this morning but have a query on wiring if anybody can advise.

 

Amongst the items is a 492/240 Transformer/Controller unit which has 3 sockets on the rear - A, V & C. Getting 16V AC between A & C but can get up to 38V between V-A or V-C depending whether the selector switches on the top are set to 'OFF'. 

 

As I don't want to risk killing the loco - American 0-4-0 'Passenger' version which at least works on DC but obviously doesn't reverse - can somebody confirm the connections to be made to the track?  Also included was a standard 472 controller. Had a furkle around the various Trix websites but can only find connection references for twin train running/wiring.

 

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance.

[sagaguy]

I should think the setting of 16v AC would be correct as Trix Twin runs on 14v AC.For true correct twin running,the centre rail is common & the two running rails are treated as positive which why the terminal rail has three sockets.

 

 Does this help.

                 http://www.trix-twin.co.uk/TTRbasics.html

 

                   Ray.

Edited April 2, 2016 by sagaguy

[Graham456]

When I was a kid, (bleet !) my dad bought a black 0-6-0 off a work mate. Now being around ten or less I didn't care what make it was, but what was fantastic was its slow running ability, it's top speed was around half of the triang Nelly,s makeing it a brilliant shunter,to a enquisitive child ( you know got to pull it apart to see how it works ) it looked like it was three rail conversion with this big shiny plate on the underside but with no pickups for three rail, a normal magnet type motor a bit like a XO4 but defantly not one,lurked under the body, so I don't know if it was as made because as a perilous poster has said trix is not common at secondhand, at swap meets and I have never seen another.

The funny thing despite haveing Thomas books did I notice it was was what Thomas was? Na only after I had sold it did I find that out!

 

Edited to correct autocorrects.......gurrrr didn't noticed them

Edited April 2, 2016 by Graham456

[Il Grifone]

Picked up some AC stuff at a boot fair this morning but have a query on wiring if anybody can advise.

 

Amongst the items is a 492/240 Transformer/Controller unit which has 3 sockets on the rear - A, V & C. Getting 16V AC between A & C but can get up to 38V between V-A or V-C depending whether the selector switches on the top are set to 'OFF'. 

 

As I don't want to risk killing the loco - American 0-4-0 'Passenger' version which at least works on DC but obviously doesn't reverse - can somebody confirm the connections to be made to the track?  Also included was a standard 472 controller. Had a furkle around the various Trix websites but can only find connection references for twin train running/wiring.

 

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance.

 

A nice find! 

 

Firstly - Don't use the Trix Transformer, because it's no longer electrically safe. (The rubber insulation is long past its 'use by' date - 25 years - and the risk of shock or fire is high.) (Collectable only.)

 

Trix motors are universal AC/DC, but  nominally 14v AC. Each loco has a centre pickup shoe (for the centre rail common return - unlike Dublo and most 3 rail systems in which the running rails are common). These shoes can be reversed to pick up from either running rail i.e. one loco picks up from the left hand running rail and the second from the right hand.

 

Using a new transformer (the one used for the other trains is fine - just leave the speed control at maximum*) and connect one terminal  direct to the centre rail (centre terminal of the terminal rail) and the other to the input terminal of the controller, The other terminal of the controller goes to one of the running rails. The locomotive should now run happily. To reverse her, just slow her to a stop and operating the reversing switch should produce a click from the sequence reverser in the cab. A second click  and she should then set off in reverse when the controller knob is advanced again. I said "Should", because the system is not noted for reliability. It works by interrupting the feed to the sequence reverser which causes it to operate. (Sequence forward - neutral - reverse - neutral - forward). Obviously any break in the circuit causes it to operate........ The cure is to convert the locos to DC by adding a bridge rectifier to replace the reverser mechanism.

 

Servicing instructions can be found on the TTRCA website.

 

The Trix American series consists of a pacific (This has a strong resemblance to a German class 01 - pre-war only and very rare), the 0-4-0 passenger locomotive and three passenger cars baggage, day coach and observation car and a 0-4-0 switcher with matching freight cars - flat, stake (with and without load), gondolas (grey and black), red box car, white reefer and yellow fruit car (also a reefer of course) plus red and silver tankers and a caboose to finish. All of '20s/'30s design with brake shafts on the corner of the car and the brake wheel on the roof of the boxcar/reefers. There are various number variations to confuse the issue.

 

* A supply of  nominally 14v is required but a slight overvoltage shouldn't cause problems. 12v will be quite sufficient however. The locos are not as fast as Hornby's racers, but full speed is unlikely to be necessary.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Il Grifone

[roythebus]

When I was a kid, (bleet !) my dad bought a black 0-6-0 off a work mate. Now being around ten or less I didn't care what make it was, but what was fantastic was its slow running ability, it's top speed was around half of the triang Nelly,s makeing it a brilliant shunter,to a enquisitive child ( you know got to pull it apart to see how it works ) it looked like it was three rail conversion with this big shiny plate on the underside but with no pickups for three rail, a normal magnet type motor a bit like a XO4 but defantly not one,lurked under the body, so I don't know if it was as made because as a perilous poster has said trix is not common at secondhand, at swap meets and I have never seen another.

The funny thing despite haveing Thomas books did I notice it was was what Thomas was? Na only after I had sold it did I find that out!

 

Edited to correct autocorrects.......gurrrr didn't noticed them

 

This was probably the Souther Railway E1 they produced, a very nice plastic body and quite an accurate model. Trix used X04 type motors on their DC locos. 

[decauville1126]

A nice find! 

 

Firstly - Don't use the Trix Transformer, because it's no longer electrically safe. (The rubber insulation is long past its 'use by' date - 25 years - and the risk of shock or fire is high.) (Collectable only.)

 

Trix motors are universal AC/DC, but  nominally 14v AC. Each loco has a centre pickup shoe (for the centre rail common return - unlike Dublo and most 3 rail systems in which the running rails are common). These shoes can be reversed to pick up from either running rail i.e. one loco picks up from the left hand running rail and the second from the right hand.

 

Using a new transformer (the one used for the other trains is fine - just leave the speed control at maximum*) and connect one terminal  direct to the centre rail (centre terminal of the terminal rail) and the other to the input terminal of the controller, The other terminal of the controller goes to one of the running rails. The locomotive should now run happily. To reverse her, just slow her to a stop and operating the reversing switch should produce a click from the sequence reverser in the cab. A second click  and she should then set off in reverse when the controller knob is advanced again. I said "Should", because the system is not noted for reliability. It works by interrupting the feed to the sequence reverser which causes it to operate. (Sequence forward - neutral - reverse - neutral - forward). Obviously any break in the circuit causes it to operate........ The cure is to convert the locos to DC by adding a bridge rectifier to replace the reverser mechanism.

 

Servicing instructions can be found on the TTRCA website.

 

The Trix American series consists of a pacific (This has a strong resemblance to a German class 01 - pre-war only and very rare), the 0-4-0 passenger locomotive and three passenger cars baggage, day coach and observation car and a 0-4-0 switcher with matching freight cars - flat, stake (with and without load), gondolas (grey and black), red box car, white reefer and yellow fruit car (also a reefer of course) plus red and silver tankers and a caboose to finish. All of '20s/'30s design with brake shafts on the corner of the car and the brake wheel on the roof of the boxcar/reefers. There are various number variations to confuse the issue.

 

* A supply of  nominally 14v is required but a slight overvoltage shouldn't cause problems. 12v will be quite sufficient however. The locos are not as fast as Hornby's racers, but full speed is unlikely to be necessary.

Many thanks SagaGuy and il Grifone. Pleased to say it now works backwards and forwards but does sit there with a slight buzz when static. Not sure if the reversing armature is meant to stay in contact with the solenoid after indexing the contact shaft though.

[Il Grifone]

Many thanks SagaGuy and il Grifone. Pleased to say it now works backwards and forwards but does sit there with a slight buzz when static. Not sure if the reversing armature is meant to stay in contact with the solenoid after indexing the contact shaft though.

 

The reverser remains energised in normal operation. It should operate when the supply voltage rises to 4V, but the locomotive should not move until 6V is applied. (Trix instructions recommend to adjust the brush tension to achieve this.) Momentary interuption of the supply releases the relay, causing the reverser to sequence. The system is very complicated and must have accounted for the higher price, in part at least. Märklin AC reversers function with a 20V pulse, which triggers a latching relay to reverse the current in the field coil (The one I have has two counterwound windings which were fed from the relay. They are now fed via two diodes! (I put the relay in a safe place - so safe I can't remember where...... ) Most of my AC locos have been converted to DC - I like to know which way the train is going to go!

 

The automatic signalling system uses a special switch linked to the signal switch, which puts a lamp in series with the supply. This causes the train to slow and stop without reversing

[decauville1126]

The reverser remains energised in normal operation. It should operate when the supply voltage rises to 4V, but the locomotive should not move until 6V is applied. (Trix instructions recommend to adjust the brush tension to achieve this.) Momentary interuption of the supply releases the relay, causing the reverser to sequence. The system is very complicated and must have accounted for the higher price, in part at least. Märklin AC reversers function with a 20V pulse, which triggers a latching relay to reverse the current in the field coil (The one I have has two counterwound windings which were fed from the relay. They are now fed via two diodes! (I put the relay in a safe place - so safe I can't remember where...... ) Most of my AC locos have been converted to DC - I like to know which way the train is going to go!

 

The automatic signalling system uses a special switch linked to the signal switch, which puts a lamp in series with the supply. This causes the train to slow and stop without reversing

 

Thankyou Il Grifone - I was just a bit concerned but you've explained it all. Biggest problem is now that I've got one working loco I just might have to keep going ..... I've never had any interest in vintage Trix ac and this was just an impulse buy at a boot sale. At least it works unlike other items I've bought!

[Il Grifone]

It's addictive...... 

 

I find Trix has a charm all its own (both 'Twin' and 'Express'), which makes its steamroller wheels and other idiosyncrasies irrelevant. Apart from the reverser and a tendency to suffer from rust, mazak pest and acetate warp, it's also very reliable - no magnets losing strength here. (We'll ignore the later DC models, though the Trix DC motor is unbreakable!)

 

Having the passenger loco, you need the switcher *.........          (Really I should be looking for an AC one - the one I have is the supposedly export only DC version with scale wheels. (She came less tender, so I pressed a spare Lima one (from their own version of 0-4-0 switcher) into service and fitted it with Trix bogies - since replaced with the correct item.)

 

Apart from the tenders, bolt on pilots and smokebox doors (position of the (working) headlight) they are the same thing.

 

* The Pacific is very rare and looks silly anyway, though it's not as bad as Dublo's black 'CPR' Duchess...... (IMHO).

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIX-THE-AMERICAN-PACIFIC-4-6-2-Cat-9-198-WITH-AMERICAN-WAGGONS-IN-REPLICA-BOX-/121773785972?nma=true&si=33eZuFmWD4KyZ4bCwFHJOQlp9V8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

(Apart from the caboose (post-war) and the Pacific (Trix Express of course), these items have pre-war couplings.)

Edited April 8, 2016 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

Thankyou Il Grifone - I was just a bit concerned but you've explained it all. Biggest problem is now that I've got one working loco I just might have to keep going ..... I've never had any interest in vintage Trix ac and this was just an impulse buy at a boot sale. At least it works unlike other items I've bought!

It`s worth joining the TTRCA ,they supply a wealth of spares but you have to be a member to buy but it`s only £12 a year.

 

                    Ray.

[runs as required]

I solved the Duchess/ A4 conflict by having both 

I can remember a much older kid flaunting his very enviable pre-war TT maroon LMS Duchess but I never knew Trix also did an A4.

 

I always had to put a brave face on to my folks about my disappointment with my Trix Twin trainset - after I'd been pitching for what we all called Hornby 'Dubelow'.

Mine came in a great long sexy red box containing just a crude black liveried LMS 0-4-0T with 4 trucks and an oval of the black plastic track. Cruelly the box had lavish space provision for 'your second TT train'. This never materialised although one local lad turned out to have  a (equally unrealistic) LNE green 0-4-0 tender loco so we could at least run the two locos on the same rails.

What it did enable us 10 year-olds to do was fabricate ourselves huge quantities of outdoor 3 rail track using a crude home-made gauge to solder square section soft copper rodding onto brass pins driven into S/H creosoted weatherboarding.

dh

[sagaguy]

I think it was a Duchess & an A3!.

 

                            Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Pre-war Trix Pacifics were a Princess (just named 'PRINCESS'), an A1* ('SCOTSMAN') and a streamlined Princess Coronation ('CORONATION') in crimson complete with headlight (so she was really 'DUCHESS OF HAMILTON' - there were matching coaches as well). All these shared a chassis with the Trix Express 01**. All are blighted with 'mazak pest' (caveat emptor).

 

Post-war only the A1 reappeared (now reclassified A10). She didn't make it into DC, being replaced with the Britannia. In the sixties an A3 and A4 were produced in plastic.

 

* Flying Scotsman was still an A1 at the time of the models introduction - unlike the prototype, the model was not reboilered, so never became an A3 (pedantic mode!)

 

** As can be seen from the wheel spacing. I think the chassis were manufactured, at least in part, in Germany (Maybe I'm wrong? - the post-war one I have is marked 'FOREIGN').

 

Edit for ID boo-boo (Perhaps I should shut up where the LMS is involved!). (Recently GBL did the same as Trix with their 'CORONATION', but missed the headlight.)

Edited April 11, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

Stop Press!

 

If anyone has a bit of spare cash and wants a Trix 'Princess', our friend Gostude has one at the moment.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIX-TTR-3-RAIL-PRE-WAR-LMS-4-6-2-PRINCESS-CLASS-LOCO-6201-PRINCESS-BOXED-mc-/371220351908?hash=item566e750ba4:g:9WMAAOSwd4tUGGZg

 

The price is rather steep (definitely not Grifone friendly!), but, seeing what these usually go for and considering it's Gostude, not out of the way.

 

There is also a complete set on eBay at the moment, but that is £1100!   

[sagaguy]

What you can do with Trix DC locos.This EM1 is fitted with a Marklin skate.

 

                            Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Santa brought me an A.C. U.S. switcher (or at least most of one!). A couple of the wheels have suffered from the dreaded zinc pest and grown in size and the brush holder/armature bearing assembly has fractured (almost normal for Trix Twin 0-4-0s!). She now has 4 good wheels and has been equipped with the Lima tender I have referred to in the past. Now all she needs is the brush assembly.... (A previous owner started to drill out the chimney but gave up half way through. I assume this was either because the mazak defeated the drill bit or it was realised that the headlight bulb would then shine through the chimney too

 

I was hoping for a 'Pytchley' too, but Santa got sniped on eBay (twice). I always regret not buying one for £14.50 some years ago, but she was rather affected by the pest and lacked a tender. There are a couple around £200 on eBay, but I think I'll pass on those!

 

Incidentally, there are two variations in the passenger loco Principally in the handrails, but also the bell shifts from the firebox to behind the chimney

[John Tomlinson]

Stop Press!

 

If anyone has a bit of spare cash and wants a Trix 'Princess', our friend Gostude has one at the moment.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIX-TTR-3-RAIL-PRE-WAR-LMS-4-6-2-PRINCESS-CLASS-LOCO-6201-PRINCESS-BOXED-mc-/371220351908?hash=item566e750ba4:g:9WMAAOSwd4tUGGZg

 

The price is rather steep (definitely not Grifone friendly!), but, seeing what these usually go for and considering it's Gostude, not out of the way.

 

There is also a complete set on eBay at the moment, but that is £1100!   

Just stumbled on this thread and have read with interest.

 

I had Trix as a child, both AC & DC, indeed still have, and have added to it in dribs and drabs over the years, with a view to one day getting it going.

 

In terms of price, I'm definitely of the opinion that this has reduced over the last 10-15 years, other than perhaps for mint and rare items - the regular stuff seems to go for not much at all on Ebay. Presumably the reason, as with other railway related items, is that the interest lies within a specific age group who knew the product in their youth, and as they pass on there are few if any newcomers to bolster demand.

 

The TTRCA is a most excellent organisation for those interested, with a useful and informative quarterly newsletter and various gatherings, and also a spares service - I say this as a non-participating member.

 

The EM1 in the last post has turned out well, and looks particularly fetching under the Trix catenary!

 

John.

Edited December 28, 2016 by John Tomlinson

[sagaguy]

Yes,if you want to restore Trix locos,the TTRCA is the place to go for spares,in fact,Griff could get new wheels & a chassis casting plus other parts.I needed to replace some missing parts on the EMI,notably the vent assy on the roof,replacement couplings & replace damaged pantograph springs.I also got some traction tyres.They do supply a lot of parts for AC locos.EM1s seem to go for a premium price these days although the model pictured cost me £80 as a restoration job,my other two excellent originals cost me well in excess of that.Ahhh,the joys of collecting & restoring.I managed to pick up the nearly new catenary set from an ad.on Gumtree to add to some masts & wires i had already.

 

                  Ray.

[Il Grifone]

I did look in the  TTRCA spares list, but couldn't find the vital brush assembly. I need two of these, but unfortunately is seems to be the part most affected by the 'pest' after the wheels. I do have one but it is made out of fibre and much thiner. This problem could be overcome, but the bearing for the armature shaft is too large for the armatures I have.

 

Prices seem to be classified information to non-members.

 

I'll have to see if I can straighten the Trix Princess body I have. My last attempt provoked a  fracture of the casting (Small and repairable). I was thinking of fitting it to a Tri-ang Princess chassis (heresy I know!)....

[sagaguy]

I did look in the  TTRCA spares list, but couldn't find the vital brush assembly. I need two of these, but unfortunately is seems to be the part most affected by the 'pest' after the wheels. I do have one but it is made out of fibre and much thiner. This problem could be overcome, but the bearing for the armature shaft is too large for the armatures I have.

 

Prices seem to be classified information to non-members.

 

I'll have to see if I can straighten the Trix Princess body I have. My last attempt provoked a  fracture of the casting (Small and repairable). I was thinking of fitting it to a Tri-ang Princess chassis (heresy I know!)....

Yes,you do have to be a member to purchase spares but at £14 a year,it does seem worth it.i`ve  got spares for my EM1s that are not listed,an email to their spares member gets a very quick response & spares by return of post.

 

                     Ray.

[sagaguy]

Just a thought.To run the EM1s picking up from the catenary,i`d have to fit a small switch in the supply line from the centre rail pick up to the motor thus isolating the p/u & switching the pantograph to pick up the current by means of the small plug seen by the pantograph on the model.I thought about a DIL switch which would possibly be small enough & be able to be got at without removing the body.Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

                              Ray.

Edited December 29, 2016 by sagaguy

[Il Grifone]

Just a thought.To run the EM1s picking up from the catenary,i`d have to fit a small switch in the supply line from the centre rail pick up to the motor thus isolating the p/u & switching the pantograph to pick up the current by means of the small plug seen by the pantograph on the model.I thought about a DIL switch which would possibly be small enough & be able to be got at without removing the body.Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

                              Ray.

 

How about a latching relay (a couple of pounds or so on eBay) inside the body? This could be triggered by reed switches and a small magnet. One of those telescopic wands for picking up errant screws etc. would be ideal. A modified Trix sequence reverser would be another possibility and in keeping with the model.

 

I'll have to consider joining the TTRCA.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Il Grifone