sagaguy Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Hi Griff,i`m ok with electrics but not electronics.How could i make that work?. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Hi Ray, I'll try and work out a circuit and post it. It's quite simple and there should be plenty of room inside the body. The relays are a bit more expensive than when I last looked, but still under three pounds from the UK. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RELAY-DPCO-2A-12V-SMD-LATCHING-Part-KEMET-EE2-12TNU-L-/390813564963?hash=item5afe4dc023:g:shcAAMXQyY1TPxgV Data sheet here http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1751677.pdf?_ga=1.122389835.1989965213.1483030223 This circuit has possibilities for switching lights etc. on and off I'll have to order a relay and play with it. David Edited December 29, 2016 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just a thought.To run the EM1s picking up from the catenary,i`d have to fit a small switch in the supply line from the centre rail pick up to the motor thus isolating the p/u & switching the pantograph to pick up the current by means of the small plug seen by the pantograph on the model.I thought about a DIL switch which would possibly be small enough & be able to be got at without removing the body.Any suggestions would be welcome. Ray. You could do what I first did 50 years ago, and that is to use the plug and 2 sockets on the top of the loco to allow you to switch from 2 rail track pickup to pantogrraph and 1 rail return, like the Triang overhead system. To do that, you wire the pin plug to the insulated motor brush, and you connect one of the sockets to the insulated track pickup, and the other socket to the feed from the pantograph. To change from track to pan you just change over the plug. All my Trix EM1s have had that treatment so that they can run under the wires alongside my Triang EM2s. Yes the scale difference is noticeable, but liveable with. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks for the suggestion.I run my locos on HD 3 rail & to use that method would entail a rewire to make sure the lights stay on But i will bear it in mind. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'm not sure how you propose to keep the lights on if the loco is stationary unless you feed the lights from the 3rd rail when the loco is running from the catenary and vice versa. But doing so means giving up independent control of 2 locos which is the best you can get with HD 3 rail track plus catenary. Only Trix twin track plus catenary gives independent control of 3 locos, or of 2 locos plus keeping the lights on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Yes,that would be nice but i mean`t keeping the lights on whilst running as normal Trix practice.Another question,does anyone know the lengths of the Marklin skate range.i normally use the 7164 skate but i may have a use for a longer one but i don`t which one to order at the moment. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Yes,that would be nice but i mean`t keeping the lights on whilst running as normal Trix practice. Ray. Ray, Provided you keep the lights wired in parallel with the motor, my method keeps the lights on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Hi Ray, I'll try and work out a circuit and post it. It's quite simple and there should be plenty of room inside the body. The relays are a bit more expensive than when I last looked, but still under three pounds from the UK. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RELAY-DPCO-2A-12V-SMD-LATCHING-Part-KEMET-EE2-12TNU-L-/390813564963?hash=item5afe4dc023:g:shcAAMXQyY1TPxgV Data sheet here http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1751677.pdf?_ga=1.122389835.1989965213.1483030223 This circuit has possibilities for switching lights etc. on and off I'll have to order a relay and play with it. David Hi Ray, I've finally got around to scanning the circuit and apologise for the delay and my poor draughtmanship. It should work, but it has not been built and tested - I don't have a EM1 to try it in anyway (or any other electric locomotive come to that). The battery can be normal 9V battery or probably a 12V remote control battery would do. It could be powered from the track feed, but this would result in the motor running when it's not desired. Seeing the very limited use, a battery would last a long time, though I would recommend a sealed plastic case to protect the locomotive in case of leakage and removal of the battery for long term storage. The reed contacts are probably best placed either side of the cab remote from the motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Hi Ray, I've finally got around to scanning the circuit and apologise for the delay and my poor draughtmanship. It should work, but it has not been built and tested - I don't have a EM1 to try it in anyway (or any other electric locomotive come to that). Scan_20170106.jpg The battery can be normal 9V battery or probably a 12V remote control battery would do. It could be powered from the track feed, but this would result in the motor running when it's not desired. Seeing the very limited use, a battery would last a long time, though I would recommend a sealed plastic case to protect the locomotive in case of leakage and removal of the battery for long term storage. The reed contacts are probably best placed either side of the cab remote from the motor. I think your diagram has unnecessary connections. Also by leaving the pin and sockets in circuit, it is possible to have the motor connected to the track via the pin, and to the pantograph via the relay. I don't think it would hurt either the motor or the DC controller, but you may get a short. If I was going to use reed switches and a latching relay, with an onboard battery, this is the circuit that I would use. But unless you specifically want to switch between pantograph and track collection without touching the loco, then it is needlessly complicated, and expensive. The wiring that I use, as I proposed earlier is this: As you can see it is identical to the circuit proposed by Il Grifone, but without the, in my view, unnecessary complication of the relay and battery. I take no credit for it, as it is identical to the one that Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Railways used for all their locos that had the option of pickup from either the track or the pantograph. The only difference is that Triang included a change-over switch in all their models, but for the Trix EM1, it uses the pin and sockets already fitted by Trix to the EM1. Edited January 6, 2017 by GoingUnderground Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share Posted January 6, 2017 Thanks to both of you,ihave to admit that the diagram using the plug & socket does appeal to me. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I think your diagram has unnecessary connections. Also by leaving the pin and sockets in circuit, it is possible to have the motor connected to the track via the pin, and to the pantograph via the relay. I don't think it would hurt either the motor or the DC controller, but you may get a short. If I was going to use reed switches and a latching relay, with an onboard battery, this is the circuit that I would use. Amended.jpg But unless you specifically want to switch between pantograph and track collection without touching the loco, then it is needlessly complicated, and expensive. The wiring that I use, as I proposed earlier is this: Simple Supply Switching.jpg As you can see it is identical to the circuit proposed by Il Grifone, but without the, in my view, unnecessary complication of the relay and battery. I take no credit for it, as it is identical to the one that Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Railways used for all their locos that had the option of pickup from either the track or the pantograph. The only difference is that Triang included a change-over switch in all their models, but for the Trix EM1, it uses the pin and sockets already fitted by Trix to the EM1. I think your diagram has unnecessary connections. Also by leaving the pin and sockets in circuit, it is possible to have the motor connected to the track via the pin, and to the pantograph via the relay. I don't think it would hurt either the motor or the DC controller, but you may get a short. If I was going to use reed switches and a latching relay, with an onboard battery, this is the circuit that I would use. Amended.jpg But unless you specifically want to switch between pantograph and track collection without touching the loco, then it is needlessly complicated, and expensive. The wiring that I use, as I proposed earlier is this: Simple Supply Switching.jpg As you can see it is identical to the circuit proposed by Il Grifone, but without the, in my view, unnecessary complication of the relay and battery. I take no credit for it, as it is identical to the one that Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Railways used for all their locos that had the option of pickup from either the track or the pantograph. The only difference is that Triang included a change-over switch in all their models, but for the Trix EM1, it uses the pin and sockets already fitted by Trix to the EM1. The Trix/Lilliput AL1 had the same arrangement with the changover plug on the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 My circuit is to allow easy changeover without touching the locomotive or using a microscopic switch. Otherwise that is the function of the plug and socket on the roof. The track pick up can be selected as Trix LH/RH or 2 rail by swopping around the shoes. I left the plug in circuit to avoid too much alteration of the original wiring, but I agree it would be better to disconnect or remove it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) My circuit is to allow easy changeover without touching the locomotive or using a microscopic switch. Otherwise that is the function of the plug and socket on the roof. The track pick up can be selected as Trix LH/RH or 2 rail by swopping around the shoes. I left the plug in circuit to avoid too much alteration of the original wiring, but I agree it would be better to disconnect or remove it. In your circuit, you have a connection between the battery and the motor which has no purpose. Likewise, you are showing an earth in the battery circuit, which is not needed as there is no common return via earth used in the battery circuit. The circuit for the battery, reed switches and latching relay coils should be totally self contained with no connections to the rest of the wiring in the loco at all, apart from the connections to the switching contacts in the SPDT latching relay, as shown in my redrafting of your circuit. Edited January 8, 2017 by GoingUnderground Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 In your circuit, you have a connection between the battery and the motor which has no purpose. Likewise, you are showing an earth in the battery circuit, which is not needed as there is no common return via earth used in the battery circuit. The circuit for the battery, reed switches and latching relay coils should be totally self contained with no connections to the rest of the wiring in the loco at all, apart from the connections to the switching contacts in the SPDT latching relay, as shown in my redrafting of your circuit. Fair enough, but the connection is to chassis not earth*. There is no need for the battery circuit to be connected to chassis, I agree, but it won't hurt. My original plan was for a rechargeable battery, but I decided it was an unnecessary complication given the intermittent use of the relay. I did also consider using the track power for switching. but this would result in the locomotive jerking into life (or stopping dead) on switching over, unless both controllers were had the same setting and again over complicated. * Any earth connection would be via the pickups to the layout common return. This should be earthed for reasons of safety and interference, but probably isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Fair enough, but the connection is to chassis not earth*. There is no need for the battery circuit to be connected to chassis, I agree, but it won't hurt. My original plan was for a rechargeable battery, but I decided it was an unnecessary complication given the intermittent use of the relay. I did also consider using the track power for switching. but this would result in the locomotive jerking into life (or stopping dead) on switching over, unless both controllers were had the same setting and again over complicated. * Any earth connection would be via the pickups to the layout common return. This should be earthed for reasons of safety and interference, but probably isn't. I'm afraid that I work on the basis that it is better to keep wiring as simple as possible to reduce the chance of error. So, if it isn't needed, then leave it out. Also, the Trix bodyshell isn't the easiest of things to affix wiring to, being a diecasting. And the chassis isn't much better, being a sheet metal stamping with holes for 2 powered motor bogies. But it would be possible using the body securing screw and a tag to make your connection to the shell and chassis. Picking up a comment from earlier, there's no physical reason why a second motor bogie couldn't be added to the Trix EM1. But there is no mention in the standard reference book on Trix Twin, "The History of Trix HO/OO Model Railways in Britain", by the late Tony Matthewman, published by New Cavendish Books in 1994 (ISBN 0904568768), to a twin motor model. So it anyone has seen one, it must have been a home modification, which would have been very simple to do if Trix sold a replacement motor bogie and motor, or one was cannibalised from another EM1 or Warship (which used the same motor bogie but with the addition of the outside bogie frame from an EM1). According to Matthewman, Trix did produce twin motor versions of the AL1/Class 81 in 1965 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I have one of the twin motored AL1's but did not know it was that old. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The twin motor AL1 apparently lasted no more than 4 years, as it was not in the January 1969 catalogue, implying that there were no stocks remaining of that model on Trix premises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I still have a Trix AL1 in the display cabinert in the front room and very nice it looks too in late BR blue with yellow ends. It earnt its keep along with another and one converted to an 85 on the MRC's New Annington layout in the 1980s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Exercise in frustration.I have a Trix Transpennine dmu to which i am trying to fit new traction tyres to,i have the correct tyres from the TTRCA spares but try as i might,as they are flat,they won`t sit in the groove,they ride up over the tread on one side & flange.I know this is a long shot but has anyone found any tyres that fit this model?. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) I think it`s time to start rewiring my Trix EM1s,these arrived today,literally rocking horse you know what. Ray Edited January 15, 2017 by sagaguy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) My Trix transpennine unit.With the new tyres from the TTRCA,it`s starting to run well once the tyres bed in.It transpired that this unit,although a Trix twin train has been fitted with Lilliput trains wheels. Ray. Edited January 18, 2017 by sagaguy 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 The Transpennine unit is running but could do with a bit more oomph to power a 5 car train.Has anyone fitted a Black beetle unit to one of these.I also notice that Black Beetle are discontinuing their bogies. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Lack of oomph is not usually a problem with Trix motors. The train presumably has Trix pinpoint axles, which will usually run away on flat surfaces. (Obviously not perfectly flat, but only a very sight gradient will suffice.) I would check these points first before thinking of changing motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I used to have a train of 6 cars of the Trix BR Mk1s and they would go twice round the MRC's test track with a hearty shove of the hand. they were probably the most free-running coaches ever made. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Ahhh,the problem was that i hadn`t cleaned the track with IPA,(not the alchoholic variety) & it seemed that there was some oil on the track,not much but enough to start it slipping. .All i need now is a Trix E3001 that needs restoration. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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